Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

Just wanted to make a few comments about "fear" of food and healthy eating. I am one of those people who believes that guidance is advice, and mileage varies.

That having been said, there is a difference between eating healthy and trying to be "perfect." And I think a lot of people, after weight loss surgery, are striving to be perfect, both physically and mentally. But, as we all know, life is not perfect, not an all or nothing proposition. After we have surgery we tend to think that our new life is somehow meant to be a reboot leading toward doing away with all the old joys associated with food, as if food is the enemy.

Do you not fear your most formidable foe? The one that tried to ruin your former life? I won't let that happen to me, and so I decide based on guidance what is right for me. But there is a flaw in this logic, in that learning is experiential, and after the sleeve the food experience is different. If you don't know your new enemy as well as you knew your old enemy, you're gonna lose.

I do believe that if you don't learn to eat more like a "normal" person long-term, you will probably fail. Because if you can't accept the fact that imperfection is part of daily life, then you will continue to live with an all-or-nothing attitude about things that lead to weight gain: food, exercise, having a "perfect" body, and so on.

Life is about f**king up and getting back on the horse. It is okay to f**k up occasionally, but it is not okay to f**k up consistently. It is okay to gain some weight, but it is not okay to gain back too much weight. It is okay to eat a cheeseburger once a week, but it is not okay to eat a cheeseburger every day. It is okay to skip one day of working out, but not two.

The sleeve is meant to help us increase self-control while we learn not to eat as much. That's it. And so, after some of the sleeve effects wear off, we're gonna choke when faced with real life situations if we don't learn to eat unhealthy food in moderation.

Honesty I haveny dieted at all, I've even more of the healthier things but I haven't given up what I love and yet at 9 weeks out I am down almost 60lbs. Limiting how much I can eat and the portions is what helped me and my sleeve is just a tool. I believe that if you totally cut out everything bad for you that you'll go crazy and fall off track.

I don't know if 15 months out qualifies as being a veteran' date=' but I'll offer my opinion and hopefully won't be too long.

I totally agree with you for the most part ... but only after you have some time under your belt.

I got this surgery so I didn't have to diet anymore, and I don't. But I also knew my relationship with food was not healthy. I needed to change that, so I changed. But there are reasons why the "Rules" are there.

First off, this is not a one size fits all process. Not everyone comes out of surgery pain free. I'm a sweller. I swell up with any type of injury. Post-op, I couldn't swallow hardly any Water. It was an effort to squeeze down 20 oz of water a day. I have read some posts, like the OP, who could drink a glass of water immediately. Again, we are all not the same. There is no way on Earth I could have even dreamed of having tuna in any shape or form within two weeks post-op. Half a spoon of cottage cheese was painful at two weeks out. Being careful isn't so much about the pain either, I think. Is every surgeon going to sew a nice, straight, uninterrupted staple line? No, you are not going to break a staple, but what about putting some unnecessary pressure on a gap between staples that was part of a stop and re-positioning?

I don't know about y'all, but I couldn't really even tell when I was full for the first couple months. I didn't measure my food, but I knew that after a couple bites, I needed to stop whether it was due to hiccupping or feeling food coming back up.

So, why do the Drs give us the rules? They need to know what has been going on behind the scenes when you call them with an issue or complaint.

(patient one week out)

"Dr, my upper abdomen feels really warm and the skin is reddish. BTW, I had tuna on crackers last night."

(Dr)

"Well, you didn't follow the guidelines I gave you so, it could be dozens of things. Meet you at the ER."

Eating slowly ...

Hmmm ... go ahead. Don't follow this one. Inhale your food like you used to do. Just post your results here. BTW, good luck with that one. Since you've read all the post-op posts, you'll know what to expect.

Alchohol ... careful of cross addictions. Yes, it is very real.

All I know is I followed the rules and I am at goal. It worked for me. If y'all have read the post-op posts, you will see hundreds of posts complaining about not losing weight while admitting they don't eat the foods they are supposed to be eating.

So, go ahead. Don't follow the rules. But don't complain when you can't get to goal, either. You know why.

And that is fine, too. A lot of people get the sleeve to lose 75% of their excess weight and it works out great for them. It all depends on what your personal goals are.

My advice ... listen to your Dr and follow the rules as best you can.[/quote']

Nice

And so' date=' after some of the sleeve effects wear off, we're gonna choke when faced with real life situations if we don't learn to eat unhealthy food in moderation.[/quote']

I believe that if you totally cut out everything bad for you that you'll go crazy and fall off track.

So when I read these comments I feel like y'all are saying I'm going to fail.

These foods you're talking about eating in moderation, I no longer crave.

I'm truly asking here, is there no chance for success for someone who has fallen out of love with all those unhealthy foods, and just wants to eat Proteins and green veggies?

So when I read these comments I feel like y'all are saying I'm going to fail.

These foods you're talking about eating in moderation' date=' I no longer crave.

I'm truly asking here, is there no chance for success for someone who has fallen out of love with all those unhealthy foods, and just wants to eat Proteins and green veggies?[/quote']

Butter, I'm still trying to figure out what is keeping my car from pulling into Burger King. It's not the sleeve doing it, so is it me? Is it that one day, I won't be able to control my car and it will go through BK's drive thru and make me order something? Where did the cravings go, and are they coming back? I don't miss them, but I feel like they're lurking in the shadows, waiting to attack at my weakest moment.

@pdxman' date=' are you still on your post op pain meds? Really? someone will troll a site and waste their time ? u r too funny. re-read what I wrote. Man. FIRST OF ALL, my doc and NUT met with me. As yours does. We talked about what I have been eating and how well it's gone and what I cheated on.. His plan for anyone on week 3 is full diet.. Protein first and good choices. So, yes, I went shopping after and bought steaks and chicken and pork chops and hard cheeses and you name it. YES< I ATE THEM TODAY . So, my friend, it does work and if you read the replies, many on here also had the same luck. I'm not suggesting that people who can't tolerate the stuff do it and any doc who would tell a patient that is having trouble to progress faster would be a quack.. I'd post my post op diet from them, but not sure if you are a troll on here, who just casually reads posts and makes pompous comments.. :-)

PS. Umm, having ONE friggin Dorito instead of obsessing about licking the powder is not exactly throwing caution to the wind now, my exaggerating friend.

PPS I'm grilling steaks tomorrow. If you don't see me online after, then I guess i'm the person who you can say died from it.. OY.... I also heard when his guests work up, it said "welcome to the world of aids" on his bathroom mirror and then his brother was found in the tub, filled with ice with his liver taken out... THen when going outside he heard a scratching on his car roof and went outside and found it was his friend, dead, hanging from a tree, with his feet going over the car... Then he went for gas and the attendant told him that there was an axe murderer hiding in his back seat.. OY[/quote']

Well, I didn't agree with everything that you said, but felt that if it works for you, then great. No one knows us like we know ourselves. We know we can't stop at just a few, but we lie and make ourselves believe we can. It just got really weird after this post, though.

Gotta love a heated debate! As to the who is trolling who.. I see no trolling at all! I agree w the OP. I'm 2 months out and have been cleared for any food since week 2. Small enough bites, eat slowly... Haven't had a problem even w steak or meatballs.

That being said EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. And as the OP Stated... Find what works for you...just don't cause yourself undue stress by OBSESSING. Not sure why that is such a bad thing??

Butter' date=' I'm still trying to figure out what is keeping my car from pulling into Burger King. It's not the sleeve doing it, so is it me? Is it that one day, I won't be able to control my car and it will go through BK's drive thru and make me order something? Where did the cravings go, and are they coming back? I don't miss them, but I feel like they're lurking in the shadows, waiting to attack at my weakest moment.[/quote']

For me it's like a break up after a bad relationship. Once I've made up my mind it's over, I don't look back. And I definitely do not go back for post break up shenanigans. That's just me. I realize some people do.

I know that's a silly analogy, but it's the best I got this early in the morning.

For me it's like a break up after a bad relationship. Once I've made up my mind it's over' date=' I don't look back. And I definitely do not go back for post break up shenanigans. That's just me. I realize some people do.

I know that's a silly analogy, but it's the best I got this early in the morning.[/quote']

Lol, that's interesting, but I'll take it! I hope ALL my bad relationships stay in the past.

B

Butter' date=' I'm still trying to figure out what is keeping my car from pulling into Burger King. It's not the sleeve doing it, so is it me? Is it that one day, I won't be able to control my car and it will go through BK's drive thru and make me order something? Where did the cravings go, and are they coming back? I don't miss them, but I feel like they're lurking in the shadows, waiting to attack at my weakest moment.[/quote']

Garbage foods as I call them are a self sustaining temptation. When you consume white carbs, starches, and sugars they produce a chemical reaction in your body that makes you crave them more. Conversely the longer you abstain from these foods the easier they are to resist.

So to answer your question. Yes, one day you'll be driving down the road and you see a BK, and yes, you will consider hitting up the drive through, but it won't be the intense craving that you remember having.

If you do decide to swing in tell them they can keep the bun & condiments(especially catsup).

LOL. Love the bad relationship analogy.. So true and how I hope to end up being with food.. I wonder, though, if like this, it's different for us guys.. Sometimes, as men, we go back to bad relationships for one night, just to please ourselves.. lol

It seems that there are two major groups on this forum. Those who get the sleeve and use the tool to eat less and loose weight and those who get the sleeve to kick off a new life of healthly eating, exersice, protein shakes and basicly a totally new life. The first group, in which I belong, is a little more laid back, we are going to incorporate birthday cake and margaritas. I would love it if the group of "Sleeve life changer- health nuts" would give us "Laid back sleevers" a break and not accuse of us of being trolls, or giving bad advice. We have a different lifestyle, it is okay not to be just like you, I promise. There needs to be room for both types of people on this forum. When I first started reading I thought the only people on here were health fanatics, I am glad to see there are people who are not running 5k's and drinking protein shakes 4 weeks out.

LOL. Love the bad relationship analogy.. So true and how I hope to end up being with food.. I wonder' date=' though, if like this, it's different for us guys.. Sometimes, as men, we go back to bad relationships for one night, just to please ourselves.. lol[/quote']

Hey I AM a guy. And when it comes to food and dating I've made every mistake you can think of. I'd like to think I've learned from them. Time will tell.

It seems that there are two major groups on this forum. Those who get the sleeve and use the tool to eat less and loose weight and those who get the sleeve to kick off a new life of healthly eating' date=' exersice, Protein shakes and basicly a totally new life. The first group, in which I belong, is a little more laid back, we are going to incorporate birthday cake and margaritas. I would love it if the group of "Sleeve life changer- health nuts" would give us "Laid back sleevers" a break and not accuse of us of being trolls, or giving bad advice. We have a different lifestyle, it is okay not to be just like you, I promise. There needs to be room for both types of people on this forum. When I first started reading I thought the only people on here were health fanatics, I am glad to see there are people who are not running 5k's and drinking Protein Shakes 4 weeks out.[/quote']

Way to lump us all together.

There are other types of people on here as well....those who have severe eating disorders and have not addressed them before surgery. They are not laid back and they certainly are not health nuts. Which way should they be advised to go?