Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

I have to say.. 48 LIKES and only 4 naysayers.. ALL of us are entitled to their own opinions, of course. Keep it nice!! It is fun, though, being on the winning side of the debate per the populous :-)

OOPS 18 to 4.. Same point, though

I have to say.. 48 LIKES and only 4 naysayers.. ALL of us are entitled to their own opinions, of course. Keep it nice!! It is fun, though, being on the winning side of the debate per the populous :-)

OOPS 18 to 4.. Same point, though

You seem way to intelligent to believe this. There is no "dislike" button, or you might be seeing different results. In order to disagree with your points, one has to take the time to write a post and be willing to "publicly" disagree with you. Plenty of people here aren't willing to do that. They are too nice.

I'm sure if you met up with a bunch of alcoholics carrying a bottle of whiskey you would be quite popular. That's what you have here...people who do not want to change their bad behavior one bit, they only want the sleeve to control their portions for them. But for people with food addictions and eating disorders, that approach absolutely will not work. They will find ways to eat around the sleeve.

@butter I so agree. Many who have a lifetime of eating disorders will eat around their sleeves. These same folk will also do that whether they "lick the cheese off a dorito", "take a bit of a pretzel and spit it out" or actually take 2 bites of each and listen to what I wrote in the post. It's moot.. They need to have therapy and deal with it and it is a serious matter. NO reason to starve and torture yourself.. Black and white diets, as my point stated, are proven to not work, wheras, learning to be and eat healthy does... Don't forget, the dorito was just an example of stupid ideas people suggest, but I had suggested a bowl of soup pre op or a can of tuna post op...(if they can handle it)- None of which will take them off the health wagon.

While I don't think anyone should disregard their doctor's orders, I do agree with the stop obsessing part of your post. What I mean by that is for instance: 1.) We don't have to worry about dehydration more than we did before forever, just for the first few weeks post op when we still have trouble getting fluids in. I see people on here at a year out worrying about not getting all of their fluids. I'm 14 months post op and I drink just like I did before surgery, sometimes a lot, some days not much at all. It never hurt me before to only get 30 oz in a day why would it now. 2.) We don't HAVE to eat protein first forever just in the weight loss phase because let's face it we are put on a high protein low carb diet, yes diet by our docs to lose the weight. I chose to have this surgery so I could eat like I did when I was thin in my younger days and that is a little of this and some of that but not 4 servings of anything. When I really started trying to diet to lose the 10-15 lbs I had gained in my late 20's is when I really started gaining weight. If I wanted to stay on Atkins I would have just done that and not had surgery, at least then I could have eaten a whole steak and not just 3-4 oz. lol Anyway that's just my two cents worth take it or leave it. lol

You have a few very valid points as others have mentioned with the stop obsessing and whatnot, but I feel like your approach to the whole subject is brash and that tone comes across strongly in many of your replies. I don't mind a debate that much, and this one was interesting to read, because when I was early out I got yelled at by a bunch of people for being on the opposite side of the topic and wondering why someone would intentionally go against their doctor's orders.

Like that day, I still maintain that I think people should follow their physician's plan, because this surgery is not a one size fits all and not all of us have the same mindset/starting place that others do. This is not to discredit researching on your own, but I feel like I researched my physician enough to trust his judgment on my post-op plan, be it because I will put myself at risk of physical injury, because it will help me lose weight faster in the beginning, or because it will help me build new habits having a structural diet. All of those actually sound like very good and educated reasons to follow a post-op diet as your doctor recommends.

Some people have very real addictions to food and for some one or two steps down the wrong path is a hard thing to come back from. For this reason, I think your post is far overreaching in its generalization that cheating is fine. Cheating is fine for you. I do worry that people will use this an excuse to continue down a path that lead them to being obese in the first place. My goal is not to be vindictive or chastise, cause I know that I am by no means perfect, but I love to see people succeed. Every time I see a success on this community it makes me genuinely happy because these are people I have talked to or who have encouraged me or vice versa and I feel connected to.

I am happy for you that your choice of foods is going well for you. Personally, I would not have been able to eat many of the things you are eating so soon out. Now that I'm a little farther out, I'm still glad that I didn't eat them, because most days that go by I want them less. I still get cravings, and once in a while will satisfy them, but the slow pace has given me time to evaluate my choices more clearly. I am not clouded all the time by my food addiction.

I'm not sure where exactly else I was going with this post, but to let people know (When I was pre-op I came to these boards all the time reading everything I could find) that there are multiple sides of this and that just like you would follow your own doctor's advice on other medical problems, that it may be best to at least have a dialogue with your doctor about what you feel and how you eat. If you are having problems, maybe it is best to work with your doctor to overcome these or find ways to fit things that you enjoy into something that will continue to better your health. Doctors don't read minds and realize that their patients aren't compliant - this information can give them a far better understanding of where you are so that they can treat you better. They are not an enemy forcing you to follow a plan, they are a health care provider, there for you, to help you be healthy. For me, the idea of "cheating" brings me back to a place where I was hiding food, eating things I shouldn't be, eating far too much. I want to be able to have a level headed honest conversation with my doctor who is there to help me through this process.

And to the OP - I would be interested if you could ask your friends/family who are bariatric surgeons, nutritionists, anesthesiologists if they could point us toward some research on these topics. I'm sure that they've attended many seminars and have a wide knowledge base on the subject, but I think it'd be very interesting. I've looked myself on PubMed and some of the journals that my nursing school provides, but I haven't had as much luck finding actual studies relating to VSG and post-op diet comparison/information.

It seems that there are two major groups on this forum. Those who get the sleeve and use the tool to eat less and loose weight and those who get the sleeve to kick off a new life of healthly eating, exersice, protein shakes and basicly a totally new life. The first group, in which I belong, is a little more laid back, we are going to incorporate birthday cake and margaritas. I would love it if the group of "Sleeve life changer- health nuts" would give us "Laid back sleevers" a break and not accuse of us of being trolls, or giving bad advice. We have a different lifestyle, it is okay not to be just like you, I promise. There needs to be room for both types of people on this forum. When I first started reading I thought the only people on here were health fanatics, I am glad to see there are people who are not running 5k's and drinking protein shakes 4 weeks out.

Perfectly put into perspective!! I whole heartedly agree!!!

@neil: I liked your post

@pdx: I liked your post too

@easye: if you can't tolerate ice cream, have you tried frozen yogurt?

I tend to be a "question authority" kind of person and although I am now old enough to know better, still, when someone tells me I can't do something I'll be danged, I just feel compulsed to do it. In some cases that has been to my benefit; in some cases, not so beneficial (i.e. speed limits). So, when the bariatric surgeon & nutritionist gave me guidelines about when to move past the liquid phase, I pushed it forward a week (no problems, felt great) and so on for each stage. And by golly, I have had zero problems or issues and feel that my VSG was a complete success and is doing exactly what I wanted it to do - I didn't expect it to cure my issues with food but just to limit the amount of food I could consume.

Maybe that's the message we need to tell the newly sleeved and the gonna be sleeved: it only limits the amount of food you can eat at one time. Period.

disclaimer so I don't get roasted alive: these are my opinions and my experiences

I have to say.. 48 LIKES and only 4 naysayers.. ALL of us are entitled to their own opinions' date=' of course. Keep it nice!! It is fun, though, being on the winning side of the debate per the populous :-)

OOPS 18 to 4.. Same point, though[/quote']

Ummm, we don't have a dislike button.

Water and gatorade was the only things that kept me going for the first week and a half.now i eat cream soup,yogurt,watermelon,soft cheese,and tried turkey slice a tiny bit and it kept me full for hours .im craving a tuna salad but i know i wont get it dwn so gonna give it a bit longer.im also craving pickles in a jar.but i think it would maybe burn my stomach ? Scared to try.oohh i cant wait to have my first propper meal.i would like ,tuna with lettuce an cucumber with pickles .yum yum lol.

I have had the worst pickle craving, I think the skin might be hard to digest though. I totally want that for my first real

meal too!!

That's what you have here...people who do not want to change their bad behavior one bit, they only want the sleeve to control their portions for them.

Wrong. Of course people want to change their bad behaviour otherwise we would of never had the surgery. The sleeve is designed to control portion sizes. It was never designed to change the mind set. It has no connection to the brain or our thought patterns.

My bad behaviours have changed tremendously. I now drink half a cup of diet coke every second day as opposed to 2 cans of real coke per day. I have had only one bite of a McDonalds hamburger in the past 3 months as opposed to 3-4 maybe 5 servings of McDonalds per week. So, yes we do and we are changing our bad behaviours..

Changing bad behaviours doesnt mean we have to live on tuna and salad for the rest of our lives or completely deprive ourselves, its all about moderation, isnt it?

Perfectly put into perspective!! I whole heartedly agree!!!

Just curious ... have you read the entire thread? Namely, my response to the post you quoted or the several other responses to that post?

Ummm, we don't have a dislike button.

True, and his math is a little off. If he were to go through and count all the likes on the opposition posts, it would be a landslide. But, as I mention in one of my posts, we're not here for a p!$$ing contest, but to help the community.

Wrong. Of course people want to change their bad behaviour otherwise we would of never had the surgery. The sleeve is designed to control portion sizes. It was never designed to change the mind set. It has no connection to the brain or our thought patterns.

My bad behaviours have changed tremendously. I now drink half a cup of diet coke every second day as opposed to 2 cans of real coke per day. I have had only one bite of a McDonalds hamburger in the past 3 months as opposed to 3-4 maybe 5 servings of McDonalds per week. So, yes we do and we are changing our bad behaviours..

Changing bad behaviours doesnt mean we have to live on tuna and salad for the rest of our lives or completely deprive ourselves, its all about moderation, isnt it?

Over Blubel, this is not fair ... you are taking Butter's quote out of context.

** Edit **

Looks like Overthewhingers changed their name to Blubel

It was never designed to change the mind set. It has no connection to the brain or our thought ?

I do believe the elimination/reduction of ghrelin, the hormone that triggers the hunger sensation qualifies as a connection to our thought/brains.

I do believe the elimination/reduction of ghrelin, the hormone that triggers the hunger sensation qualifies as a connection to our thought/brains.

Yes that is true, to some degree. I do feel that it controls some of the hunger sensation but the connection Im referring to (which I should of clarified), is the psychological side. That the sleeve has no connection to controlling emotional eating etc.

Thanks, Neil. I enjoyed your post. Everyone is different with different doctors. Do what is best for you.

Diets do not work. This is a new way of life for all of us. Everything in moderation.

Don't worry, be happy.