Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

So when I read these comments I feel like y'all are saying I'm going to fail.

These foods you're talking about eating in moderation' date=' I no longer crave.

I'm truly asking here, is there no chance for success for someone who has fallen out of love with all those unhealthy foods, and just wants to eat proteins and green veggies?[/quote']

I doubt they were directly picking on You.... But much more talking in general in their opinion on the matter.

Why bother responding to your post when you go back and edit' date=' add and back track everything you say.

And yes you edit every single post by volumes and changes galore.

A valid debate never needs editing once given.[/quote']

He directly said what he added to OP.... So people wouldn't take it the wrong way. *shrugs*

wow I could say so much on this topic but it has been said by Pookiesm' date=' PDXman,Butterthebean and Doxie so Im done here. I just want to say I am a firm believer in following doctors orders. Also my Dr instructs me himself not his brother so I feel confident it is his expertise I am following.

best of luck to everyone.

Surgery and healing from it is serious business.[/quote']

Just wow...

At no time did I say you were full of SH)##@. As a matter of fact' date=' if you read my first post, I said I agreed with you, so, uh ...

What I disagreed with was that people don't need to follow their Drs guidelines. I just don't agree.

I put myself in the shoes of someone researching the sleeve, coming on here, reading and thinking, "Oh, I really don't have to do purees post-op, then. Cool!" Then, they get the sleeve, do their own thing and get in trouble.

This is the person I worry about most when I read this thread.[/quote']

Correct... You said BS.

A thread of post-op (no matter how veteran you are) is what (as a pre-op) I want to hear. I'd like in my research to see what different dr.s have suggested as I didn't realize they can vary so drastically. I want to hear people's experiences so I can make my own decision as to how much or not I want to follow orders or what foods to avoid until which month out, etc. It's quite frustrating to see after someone posts their opinion and tries to cite sources that helped them make their decision/opinion and then see others completely bash them for that. What's the point in anyone posting their opinions then? Opinions.... Everyone thinks they are giving their personal experiences to help the next person. As anyone going through this, you should never take one person's opinion as the final word, but then again I'd hope this would be common sense. Take your Dr.s word. It makes me think twice about posting my opinions if I ever get approved and have surgery on here.... *runs to another site*

Correct... You said BS.

The heat from this debate has definitely died down, but now it seems you are fanning the embers....maybe not intentionally, but still...

A thread of post-op (no matter how veteran you are) is what (as a pre-op) I want to hear. I'd like in my research to see what different dr.s have suggested as I didn't realize they can vary so drastically. I want to hear people's experiences so I can make my own decision as to how much or not I want to follow orders or what foods to avoid until which month out, etc. It's quite frustrating to see after someone posts their opinion and tries to cite sources that helped them make their decision/opinion and then see others completely bash them for that. What's the point in anyone posting their opinions then? Opinions.... Everyone thinks they are giving their personal experiences to help the next person. As anyone going through this, you should never take one person's opinion as the final word, but then again I'd hope this would be common sense. Take your Dr.s word. It makes me think twice about posting my opinions if I ever get approved and have surgery on here.... *runs to another site*

Dreams, what you don't seem to understand is the original poster changed their posts. Far more than what they stated, believe me. My posts reflect the original content, not the edited version, so know that you are not getting the full story and not seeing the ugliness of the original post. He edited them for a reason, after all ...

BTW, I called BS on his assertions, not on him. Can you not see that? Do you understand the difference?

Do you have any experience on forums and understand the damage a troll can do? Especially one such as this?

Kettle, I'd like to introduce you to the pot ...

Dreams' date=' what you don't seem to understand is the original poster changed their posts. Far more than what they stated, believe me. My posts reflect the original content, not the edited version, so know that you are not getting the full story and not seeing the ugliness of the original post. He edited them for a reason, after all ...

BTW, I called BS on his assertions, not on him. Can you not see that? Do you understand the difference?

Do you have any experience on forums and understand the damage a troll can do? Especially one such as this?

Kettle, I'd like to introduce you to the pot ...[/quote']

Gotcha. No, I'm not an avid forum poster--don't have time nor have I had interest in other matters before my research for surgery. Thanks for posting the actual original posting, I'm sure this has helped a lot of people. I'm not debating you, I simply stated that the thread was disappointing . I can appreciate some good sarcasm though Good luck in your journey.

Supersweetums I just love your profile pic.....I don't know if I will ever be able to fit into one leg of my old size 18's but it sure feels good so far to see how they just fall off of me :-)

Thanks! Those are my size 22 jeans that I wore at my heaviest! I didn't think I would be able to fit in 1 leg, but I did! Good luck with your journey!!

Everyone is on their own path

I just hate words like never an always and there are people on these forums that say they are never going to eat .... again.Then if they do they beat and berate themselves over it and if they post about it from what I have seen on this forum there are plenty of others that are willing to join in on the berating.I know I will follow my Doctor's order to the T in the beginning through all of the phases however I know I can't honestly say I will never or I will always anything.I feel I would be setting myself up for feelings of failure which is more dangerous to me than 1 bite of anything.

@pdxman, are you still on your post op pain meds? Really? someone will troll a site and waste their time ? u r too funny. re-read what I wrote. Man. FIRST OF ALL, my doc and NUT met with me. As yours does. We talked about what I have been eating and how well it's gone and what I cheated on.. His plan for anyone on week 3 is full diet.. protein first and good choices. So, yes, I went shopping after and bought steaks and chicken and pork chops and hard cheeses and you name it. YES< I ATE THEM TODAY . So, my friend, it does work and if you read the replies, many on here also had the same luck. I'm not suggesting that people who can't tolerate the stuff do it and any doc who would tell a patient that is having trouble to progress faster would be a quack.. I'd post my post op diet from them, but not sure if you are a troll on here, who just casually reads posts and makes pompous comments.. :-)

PS. Umm, having ONE friggin Dorito instead of obsessing about licking the powder is not exactly throwing caution to the wind now, my exaggerating friend.

PPS I'm grilling steaks tomorrow. If you don't see me online after, then I guess i'm the person who you can say died from it.. OY.... I also heard when his guests work up, it said "welcome to the world of aids" on his bathroom mirror and then his brother was found in the tub, filled with ice with his liver taken out... THen when going outside he heard a scratching on his car roof and went outside and found it was his friend, dead, hanging from a tree, with his feet going over the car... Then he went for gas and the attendant told him that there was an axe murderer hiding in his back seat.. OY

Can't take reasonable discourse without going ballistic? That last paragraph is exactly what you meant it to be--absurd. And, in my opinion, it is disrespectful of pdxman.

I have to say.. 48 LIKES and only 4 naysayers.. ALL of us are entitled to their own opinions' date=' of course. Keep it nice!! It is fun, though, being on the winning side of the debate per the populous :-)

OOPS 18 to 4.. Same point, though[/quote']

Pay attention to the likes your naysayers have racked up.... Just saying.

This was a very good post and you have hit some key points. When we deprive ourselves of something, sometimes that can lead to us over eating or eating off plan. I believe so many people who have there surgery are in a rush to get to goal weight that they don't learn how to live or maintain that weight because of deprivation of certain foods.

I haven't eaten anything "bad" and I do have craving but they are false because the only reason I want it is because I can't have it.

My surgeon is in MX and when I read some threads a lot of people are quick to say ask your NUT/ DOC don't listen to person A, B, or C. Well some of us don't have that and some of us are not looking for permission to eat whatever. So this was an excellent post IMO for those individuals that don't see a NUT.

Thank you for your post. I was have a very difficult and miserable time following my doctors orders and I too was having no problems. I am two weeks and I day post surgery today and started eating chicken last saturday and I have been so happy. I eat small amounts and I chew very well and I have had no problems. I am not going to put tuna in the blender and drink it. Not going to happen. I want to get my protein through food and not stupid protein shakes and artificial flavors and sweetners. My goal with the sleeve was to eat and live like a "normal" person. Protein shakes and fanatical eating is no normal life for me. I do not ever want to go back to my awful eating habits that got me in this position in the first place. I loved your post and I hope you don't get beat up for it' date=' there are some people on here that are pretty critical of anyone not following the plan to a T.[/quote']

Are you from Texas? (Noticed your profile mascot) Do you mind me asking which Dr. You used?