Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

It's good to know that I'm not alone' date=' it just all makes sense to me, kind of no brainer. I know me, and if I were to not keep track and all the nit picky stuff I do (for the record, it's like a game to me, one that I'm winning!), I am scared if I had not made these changes, it would be katy barr the door.....and I'd let ten lbs sneak back on me, then another four next year and five the following. You see where I'm going? That is how I ended up having WLS!!! [/quote']

I feel the same way. Many people here liken this behavior to being "on a diet." But I say it makes good sense. If this is what we need to do to stay healthy for the rest of our lives then I see no problem with it. If I could stay lean and healthy while eating whatever I wanted and not worrying about it...well hell, sign me up. But it's not going to happen unless I make some real changes because I have some very well ingrained, long standing, unhealthy behaviors.

I reached goal' date=' five lbs under actually.....in six months. My 'rules' were imposed by ME, not the doctor. I strictly followed the program after surgery, the first six weeks, liquids, full liquids, soft food etc. I know that I had all those staples in me and I did not want to risk doing something to cause a leak, I didn't want anything 'lodging' in the staples, whatever CAN happen, I wanted to try and avoid. I am never one to think it can't happen to me....I'm of the mind set "Why not me, I'm not special" LoL

That said, I had myself on a no nonsense diet, nothing sweet, at all, not one thing, for six months. Nothing carbonated, that was the only "RULE" the only "No No" I was given.

Now I'm at goal, I make decisions, choices. Everyone, us former fatties and naturally thin folks, we should all make choices every day forever. That helps us avoid gaining weight, helps us avoid heart disease. I. E. 85% lean hamburger makes a killer tasting hamburger, but meat that is 93% lean is a wiser choice and it is far from yucky!! It's just a wiser choice, that is across the board, for everyone. My husband has a stent, he did not have a heart attack, by the grace of God, but he had a 95% blockage. I learned more than I ever thought I'd need to know for his cardiac dietitian.

More rule I imposed on myself, others might call them rules, I call them my new normal. I weigh or measure my food, every day....when we eat at home. I log my food on line, all of this is fun for me. I do not exercise, so I knew I'd need to make changes I could live with, forever. This is not a diet, it is how I live, forever.

I can't give anyone a list of rules, all I can do is say what has worked for me for almost three years. It's my story and how I do things. I'm sure others would think I'm a nut, but that's ok.[/quote']

I was ASKED what I did to achieve my success. I was not preaching, just trying to share what worked for me just like everyone else here. I was blessed to have great insurance and the benefit of all their costly research and education. Others here, clearly have not been as fortunate. I am sorry if my following my program's rules by CHOICE doesn't sit well with you. All I'm saying is it worked for me and literally hundreds of diets or eating whatever the hell I wanted before, never did! You said you were 5 lbs under your goal, but did not share what that was. Just curious why?

Pussification....heh. I wonder if that is in the urban dictionary.

It's a legit word. Was coined by BTLS several years ago.

Ok' date=' I thought all of us, at least everyone that is overweight, has a 'fatty' liver and they have to move it to get to our tummy, and it's easier with a "lean, mean" liver!!! LoL Did I misunderstand??!!![/quote']

No worries! There's a lot TO understand! Not every overweight person has a fatty liver. We are all different. I was actually in amazingly good overall health for my weight. I had surgery because I have sever arthritis in my knees and no matter what I tried I could not get the weight back off. I was tired of living on pain killers and not having any quality of life. I also wanted to avoid the inevitable problems in my future, like fatty liver or diabetes if I didn't get it off. We are truly complicated machines!

super, is successful i think that is forgotten, she might not got to goal your way but guess what she got to goal. thats it and thats all.

I haven't read all the posts and I'm not going too. There is no way I'm taking the advice of someone with no medical training of any kind over my doctor because he has a doctor or nutritionist in his family. I have a pilot in my family but I'm not trying to fly a plane. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. From the research I've done "Most authors suggest that the major risk factor for gastric leaks is not staple line dehiscence but is due to ischemia [lack of blood flow] in the gastric wall next to the staple line. Classic ischemic fistulas [a fistula is a hole] tend to appear between 5 and 6 days after surgery, when the wall-healing process is between the inflammation and fibrotic phase [your stomach's forming connective tissue to seal over the cut creating a barrier between the cut and the staples]. Mechanical fistulas are usually discovered earlier, within the first 2 days after surgery [6]."

This is actual medical research, not my opinion. After surgery your stomach is inflammed, it's swollen, and it's trying to repair itself. That takes time, thus the need for the liquid and soft food diet. The "Oh eat a piece of pizza right after surgery" mentality is going to stop your healing.

Listen to him if you want, all adults have that right, just know he's not going to be the one cut open for a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th surgery, he's not going to care for your kids, he's not going to pay your hospital bill or your mortgage, and he's not the one that may have a permanent feeding tube if things go wrong.

Successful Management of a Gastric Sleeve Leak with an Endoscopic Stent http://www.hindawi.c...gm/2012/205979/

Has this gotten loud and angry because people choose to eat a treat every once in a while??? My background is in counseling, and that sounds like a personal problem. Plus... a lot of people didn't eat whatever they wanted. YOU did. YOU were undisciplined. A lot simply yo-yo dieted. That takes a certain level of discipline, but can't be maintained forever. If you claim to have been "perfect" and the thought of someone having one taco offends you to your core.....check back with us in 10 years.

Plus... a lot of people didn't eat whatever they wanted. YOU did. YOU were undisciplined. A lot simply yo-yo dieted. That takes a certain level of discipline....

So the yo-yo dieters are disciplined? Why did they need to yo-yo diet in the first place? Was it because they are such savy dieticians?

Sheesh another Johnny come lately showing up to the party months late and then passing a chicken **** generalized judgement on the masses without having the courage to direct it at anyone in particular.

I was ASKED what I did to achieve my success. I was not preaching, just trying to share what worked for me just like everyone else here. I was blessed to have great insurance and the benefit of all their costly research and education. Others here, clearly have not been as fortunate. I am sorry if my following my program's rules by CHOICE doesn't sit well with you. All I'm saying is it worked for me and literally hundreds of diets or eating whatever the hell I wanted before, never did! You said you were 5 lbs under your goal, but did not share what that was. Just curious why?

My physician's goal was 150, which puts me right at a healthy BMI - I think that may be pretty normal with him. I wanted to be at 145, and then I'd have a 5 lb "pad". My body seems to be 'comfortable' here, I go between 144 and 147.5, I've been at this weight for 2 yrs 10 months.

I know what you're saying, all I can do is tell my story, and it is what it is!!

Oh can the ridiculousness just stop?

Be supportive or be quiet.

Don't call someone out on their opinion unless they have addressed you personally. Your anger and self righteous indignation does not impress too many people. Your long winded analysis of another persons mental state is irrelevant. If yours is the only "correct" opinion then keep it to yourself. If you are going to respond in a manner that suggests your educational level is superior then think again.

No one came here to be judged. No one wants to see belittling comments or explanations of Freudian theory.

Wanna call me out on this post? Go ahead. I'm not impressed by you either.

Be polite or just shut up.

My post was clearly about the cursing, bashing, and belittling that many of YOU we're doing to other members. Accusing me of a lack of courage? It was a general statement. Get over yourself. You "vets" haven't been very encouraging, that's for sure. And your anger IS a personal problem. Assuming that someone is beneath you when she lost all of her weight even though she included treats is simply unintelligent. Sorry you are all so angry. Maybe it's the lack of carbs

Thank you bombshell. It would just be great if some of the others could possibly grasp what you are saying. Unfortunately I think they may be unable to analyze themselves as well as they can analyze others.

This, exactly. If we all followed the rules in the first place we wouldn't be here, but we chose to NOT FOLLOW the rules and ended up where we had to have a surgery to save our lives.

I think this is true, but since I posted originally here, I must add that I think it's a lot like ethics. If you THINK something is unethical, then IT IS!!!! If you THINK you need to follow 100% of the rules, then YOU DO!! I knew I could have discipline with logic, but I sure get that many should indeed not vary!! I was never one of those. To each their own, for sure!!!

It really doesn't have to be all or nothing. I mean every now and then I have a slice of pizza or half a cheeseburger. That's not going to make me fat again. What would make me fat is if I ate a whole pizza and a whole cheeseburger with fries and coke regularly. But that isn't going to happen because my stomach does not have enough capacity for that. Everyone should lighten up on themselves and on others.

I think this is true, but since I posted originally here, I must add that I think it's a lot like ethics. If you THINK something is unethical, then IT IS!!!! If you THINK you need to follow 100% of the rules, then YOU DO!! I knew I could have discipline with logic, but I sure get that many should indeed not vary!! I was never one of those. To each their own, for sure!!!

You know, I didn't know there were "rules" prior to surgery. Common sense is what I'd call it. Unethical, that's another word for it, probably means the same thing. The problem with many of us is lack of will power. For me it was a vicious cycle. Eating more than I should (not necessarily something bad for me, but the portions, that is why this surgery is like a miracle procedure for me, forced portion control), after eating too much, the guilt. Vowing to 'start tomorrow' or 'on Monday'. Crazy!!! What is different for me now is I eat a lot of Protein, but I eat anything I want, there are some things I choose to stay away from because I don't LOVE it, I.E. Potato chips, they're not worth the calories. Fritos on the other hand, I DO LOVE. I do not buy them, but when at a get together I will eat a few, and by a few, I mean 6 or 7, that seems like so few, but when you have the digestive track of a field mouse, 6 Fritos along with a 3 oz hamburger and 2 TB of Pork 'N Beans....it is a meal, a good sized meal at that! What makes resisting and having will power possible now is lack of hunger, when you are not hungry it is easier to stop, walk away or just plain ol' resist. For me this is the case. Before surgery when I was 'starving' or 'ravenous' - I had the will power of a 2 yr old at times. LoL