Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

I always make sure my offensive language will get bleeped out by the ******* filters. So if I say ****' date=' or **** or heaven forbid ****-** it won't offend too many people.[/quote']

I did not find any of that language offensive, but O.T.R.'s profile pic., well that's another matter!

I did not find any of that language offensive' date=' but O.T.R.'s profile pic., well that's another matter![/quote']

Girl!! Lol!! Especially when it's above staring down at you!

Ok Neil I swear I won't ruin your thread again!

I'm outta here

Sorry you are all so angry. Maybe it's the lack of carbs

+1 lol

^{I'm curious how much of the originals wieght was lost the 1st 90 days. I had mine done about the same time as he did and have similar results. Although all but 5 pounds were lost the 1st 90 days and the 5 lost since then were due to food poisioning from a baconator that gave me the poops for 2 weeks solid. I felt like the rules were being over done and I did nothing by the book. I ate popeys the day before surgery, only rule followed was not to drink anything after midnight the night before. Surgeon said I was one of the most easy guys he has ever done. Post op was able to chug 3 oz of water but not able to eat much, although i did eat solids really soon after. I think I might have stretched my self out. I can eat half a large pizza, had 3 donuts saturday. Prolly eating 3000 plus calories a day much like pre op. So no wonder I am no longer losing wieght. In fact I fear gaining some back.}

^{Point is you don't have to follow the rules, but doing so is wise. 2 girls that I work with follow rules better and were done after me and have both lost 90 pounds already. So it depends on what results you want. I want to lose more but also love junk food. Need to change my mindset.}

I am not going to continue the debate about rules. Other than to say, I was sleeved on 2/19, I followed the rules and I am now 50 lbs lighter. That worked for me, but to each their own.

LMAO. Laura' date=' still running from thread to thread keeping everyone under control. Must be so exhausting for you.[/quote']

It is her daily exercise just pulling your leg Laura ( my friend)...

^{I'm curious how much of the originals wieght was lost the 1st 90 days. I had mine done about the same time as he did and have similar results. Although all but 5 pounds were lost the 1st 90 days and the 5 lost since then were due to food poisioning from a baconator that gave me the poops for 2 weeks solid. I felt like the rules were being over done and I did nothing by the book. I ate popeys the day before surgery' date=' only rule followed was not to drink anything after midnight the night before. Surgeon said I was one of the most easy guys he has ever done. Post op was able to chug 3 oz of Water but not able to eat much, although i did eat solids really soon after. I think I might have stretched my self out. I can eat half a large pizza, had 3 donuts saturday. Prolly eating 3000 plus calories a day much like pre op. So no wonder I am no longer losing wieght. In fact I fear gaining some back. [/sup']}

^{Point is you don't have to follow the rules, but doing so is wise. 2 girls that I work with follow rules better and were done after me and have both lost 90 pounds already. So it depends on what results you want. I want to lose more but also love junk food. Need to change my mindset.}

^{Are you really eating all those foods as a post op or just being fatecious?}

I really think I must have stretched my stomach because I really can eat a lot. After reading stories pre op I am rather shocked at what I can pack away. The first few months post op I paid less attention to self control as I figure the limitations from the surgery would replace self control. Now I am finding I can eat as much again (maybe not as quickly) as I could pre op. I do wonder if the doctor didn't cut out as much as other patients since I wasn't super fat. I had to gain 15 lbs to get big enough to have insurance to help pay for it. Doctor said he took 50 to 60% off my stomach and have heard other people say it is size of an ink pen which can't be the case for me.

I haven't read all the posts and I'm not going too. There is no way I'm taking the advice of someone with no medical training of any kind over my doctor because he has a doctor or nutritionist in his family. I have a pilot in my family but I'm not trying to fly a plane. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. From the research I've done "Most authors suggest that the major risk factor for gastric leaks is not staple line dehiscence but is due to ischemia [lack of blood flow] in the gastric wall next to the staple line. Classic ischemic fistulas [a fistula is a hole] tend to appear between 5 and 6 days after surgery' date=' when the wall-healing process is between the inflammation and fibrotic phase [your stomach's forming connective tissue to seal over the cut creating a barrier between the cut and the staples']. Mechanical fistulas are usually discovered earlier, within the first 2 days after surgery [6]."

This is actual medical research, not my opinion. After surgery your stomach is inflammed, it's swollen, and it's trying to repair itself. That takes time, thus the need for the liquid and soft food diet. The "Oh eat a piece of pizza right after surgery" mentality is going to stop your healing.

Listen to him if you want, all adults have that right, just know he's not going to be the one cut open for a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th surgery, he's not going to care for your kids, he's not going to pay your hospital bill or your mortgage, and he's not the one that may have a permanent feeding tube if things go wrong.

Successful Management of a Gastric Sleeve Leak with an Endoscopic Stent http://www.hindawi.c...gm/2012/205979/

Thanks for citing your post. That is a very interesting website!!

I KNOW PPL who followed everything like they were suppose to and are still losing very slowly. everyones body is differant. for example myself i am pear shaped and my upper body loses way before the lower half catches up. i looked at my face and neck today and they were so damn skinny, looked at the lower half and was like wow. see i did my research and i have a lot of substantal fat which is the most stubborn. a lot of ppl who loses really fast, well they are heavier on top. ie men. so yes they will lose way more faster. and the women that are heavier on top also. i am a slow loser but i have not gained any weight either. and yes it might take me 12-18 months to get to goal but guess what i will get there, maybe not in 6 months like most ppl here. but i also would like to see those ppl down the road.

I really think I must have stretched my stomach because I really can eat a lot. After reading stories pre op I am rather shocked at what I can pack away. The first few months post op I paid less attention to self control as I figure the limitations from the surgery would replace self control. Now I am finding I can eat as much again (maybe not as quickly) as I could pre op. I do wonder if the doctor didn't cut out as much as other patients since I wasn't super fat. I had to gain 15 lbs to get big enough to have insurance to help pay for it. Doctor said he took 50 to 60% off my stomach and have heard other people say it is size of an ink pen which can't be the case for me.

You might be right. If your surgeon only removed about 1/2 of your stomach then a considerable amount of fundus had to be left behind. I would be highly upset if this were the case. IMO leaving fundus behind is bad practice because it is easily stretched. This is what is so great about the sleeve, when done correctly, it is nearly impossible to stretch.

You might be right. If your surgeon only removed about 1/2 of your stomach then a considerable amount of fundus had to be left behind. I would be highly upset if this were the case. IMO leaving fundus behind is bad practice because it is easily stretched. This is what is so great about the sleeve, when done correctly, it is nearly impossible to stretch.

Maybe you can answer this question that has had me worried for almost 3 years now! Can we stretch out our new little tummys? You say near impossible, is that accurate? It seems to me like we'd have to really work at it, but never the less, the times I've eaten too much, where I feel Thanksgiving stuffed...you know, that HORRIBLE feeling.....I still worry. It is ALWAYS when we've been eating out. When I'm home i weigh/measure my food, when out, I "eyeball" it, which is not quite as easy, especially when visiting with others. I don't get hungry so I really don't feel full like I use to, just all of a sudden I've had one or two bites too many, and boy do I regret it. Those are the times when I wonder, did I stretch my stomach!!???!!!

Ok....if it is nearly impossible to do damage like that, HOW do people regain? How do you gain weight without stretching your stomach?? That is my question I guess, how do they gain? I know you can drink your calories and we could drink 2500 calories per day, maybe more...via alchol, milkshakes and soft drinks, but our tummy, how would that affect the size??

I will never stop thinking about this. I don't obsess, but it certainly crosses my mind.

Maybe you can answer this question that has had me worried for almost 3 years now! Can we stretch out our new little tummys? You say near impossible, is that accurate? It seems to me like we'd have to really work at it, but never the less, the times I've eaten too much, where I feel Thanksgiving stuffed...you know, that HORRIBLE feeling.....I still worry. It is ALWAYS when we've been eating out. When I'm home i weigh/measure my food, when out, I "eyeball" it, which is not quite as easy, especially when visiting with others. I don't get hungry so I really don't feel full like I use to, just all of a sudden I've had one or two bites too many, and boy do I regret it. Those are the times when I wonder, did I stretch my stomach!!???!!!

Ok....if it is nearly impossible to do damage like that, HOW do people regain? How do you gain weight without stretching your stomach?? That is my question I guess, how do they gain? I know you can drink your calories and we could drink 2500 calories per day, maybe more...via alchol, milkshakes and soft drinks, but our tummy, how would that affect the size??

I will never stop thinking about this. I don't obsess, but it certainly crosses my mind.

My surgeon told me that you can not stretch out your new tummy. Like OTR said, the part they remove (which should be about 85%) is very stretchy. They portion left behind is very muscular and stretches very little. So the people that regain are the people that, you are right, drink a lot of calories and eat a lot of slider foods that are high in calories (think chips, crackers, movie popcorn). I am 2.5 years post op and have to be diligent about what I eat. If I start eating too much crappy foods, I can gain very quickly. I know I will always have to be aware of what I am eating for a lifetime, that is reality. But it is not so bad! I know I can enjoy a small ice cream with my kids and not gain weight, but I can't keep chips and junk around in the house, or I would gain. I always say, set up your environment so that you can succeed!

My surgeon told me that you can not stretch out your new tummy. Like OTR said, the part they remove (which should be about 85%) is very stretchy. They portion left behind is very muscular and stretches very little. So the people that regain are the people that, you are right, drink a lot of calories and eat a lot of slider foods that are high in calories (think chips, crackers, movie popcorn). I am 2.5 years post op and have to be diligent about what I eat. If I start eating too much crappy foods, I can gain very quickly. I know I will always have to be aware of what I am eating for a lifetime, that is reality. But it is not so bad! I know I can enjoy a small ice cream with my kids and not gain weight, but I can't keep chips and junk around in the house, or I would gain. I always say, set up your environment so that you can succeed!

Yay, you are right behind me!!! I had surgery in June 2010! I agree with you 100%, set up our enviroment for success! It is easier since we have an empty nest and my husband had a 95% blockage....and had to have a stent put in, this was about 14 months before my surgery, so our life changed a lot at that time! Chips, Cookies all those things with partially hydrogenated oils in them....gone! If it's not here, we can't eat it, right??!!! Like you, I can go to Braum's (love them!) and have a jr. dip on a cone and I'm fine, I probably do this twice a month. It does not affect me, I just adjust. Also like you, I find I can gain quickly, but I think that's always been the case, I just did NOT pay attention to a few pounds pre op!!! Not like I should have been doing. Anyway, over Christmas, and this was a first....I gained six lbs. I watched it go up, because I weigh daily, but usually I'll go up a lb or two and then the next day or day ofter, I'm back down. I go between 145 and 147 and that is normal for me. I got up to 150 and knew I needed to cut my calories back to 1100 - 1200 and up my Protein. Less than a month later I was back down and stayed down to my normal range. Again, like you, I must be, I AM diligent about the amount I eat. I eat normally and I do not ever feel deprived, but I am aware of every single thing I put in my mouth. Thanks for posting, I'm really excited when I run across someone who is over 2 years out!! Congratulations!!!

Yay, you are right behind me!!! I had surgery in June 2010! I agree with you 100%, set up our enviroment for success! It is easier since we have an empty nest and my husband had a 95% blockage....and had to have a stent put in, this was about 14 months before my surgery, so our life changed a lot at that time! Chips, cookies all those things with partially hydrogenated oils in them....gone! If it's not here, we can't eat it, right??!!! Like you, I can go to Braum's (love them!) and have a jr. dip on a cone and I'm fine, I probably do this twice a month. It does not affect me, I just adjust. Also like you, I find I can gain quickly, but I think that's always been the case, I just did NOT pay attention to a few pounds pre op!!! Not like I should have been doing. Anyway, over Christmas, and this was a first....I gained six lbs. I watched it go up, because I weigh daily, but usually I'll go up a lb or two and then the next day or day ofter, I'm back down. I go between 145 and 147 and that is normal for me. I got up to 150 and knew I needed to cut my calories back to 1100 - 1200 and up my protein. Less than a month later I was back down and stayed down to my normal range. Again, like you, I must be, I AM diligent about the amount I eat. I eat normally and I do not ever feel deprived, but I am aware of every single thing I put in my mouth. Thanks for posting, I'm really excited when I run across someone who is over 2 years out!! Congratulations!!!

I am there with you! This Christmas I gained about 5 lbs all because of crappy eating! I got home (I was at families for almost a week!), started eating clean again, and lost it within about 3 weeks.

I love to hear when other people feel like they eat normally, although normal now is not the same as normal before (I eat about the same amount of ice cream as you!).

I know that you are very diligent about tracking, me, not so much. But that doesn't mean I do not watch everything I eat. I have young children (3 and 6), but they are used to what is allowed in the house. They have some snacks, but it is all stuff that I do not even like, so I don't touch it. Other than that, they eat similar to me, so they are learning good eating habits too! Even my husband lost weight (really didn't need too) after I had surgery because I just said it is not allowed in the house! Might sound mean, but no one benefits from junk in the house.

I weigh daily to. It keeps me accountable. It fluctuates a bit from day to day, especially depending on hormones (things I would have never paid attention to before, hell, I would never even step on the scale before!). For me, it is just a new way of life, one that I can live with for the rest of my life and be happy!