Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

There's some really angry' date=' anal-retentive folks on this forum.

Just an observation.[/quote']

Yup, those people exist anywhere you go.

There's some really angry, anal-retentive folks on this forum.

Just an observation.

And some serious pussification of people on here who are too lazy to do what they're supposed to so they try to find loop holes to suite their personal net gain...yup. Say what you want, I really couldn't care less, I just think it's funny people eating taco bell and other **** and think they're going to be successful by fueling their body with junk, worthless food that does absolutely nothing for the body. I wasn't pissed, it was more sarcasm, along with 'wtf are you thinking' type moment. I watch out for numero uno, and give my opinion freely, but ya ain't gotta take it missy.

Pussification....heh. I wonder if that is in the urban dictionary.

Sorry it's so long!! yes, I hope we hear from the veterans. .I have spoken to many of them, as I just wasn't buying into the golden rules and was able to tolerate so many things. I had a real spicy meal yesterday and no gas or anything. Sorry it was soo long, a lot to say, lol... I lost 26 pounds from the the one week liquid preop to today, which is two weeks post op, for a total of 26 pounds in 21 days. I am HAPPY to not obsess on each pound and slow down the weight loss to get onto a lifestyle diet that works.. My nutritionist (and mom), said that was music to their ears.

I have a question because my Surgeons Preop diet is midnight before my surgery Im positive he wouldnt risk my liver

Pussification....heh. I wonder if that is in the urban dictionary.

1. Pussification

pussification(noun): the state in which a society becomes less and less tough. This noun's originator is the famous comedian George Carlin.

"We are undergoing a pussification of our entire society."

2. Pussification

The state of mind that a man undergoes when he has lost any control that he ever had in a relationship with a woman. The point in a relationship where a man becomes his mates personal b***h. Once pussification takes over the man will spend every waking minute thinking of ways to please his mate.

"Hey Mike, wanna grab a beer after work?"

"Thanks guys, but I can't, I have to hurry home to give the cat a bath so that I'll have time to watch Seventh Heaven with the princess"

"Holy ****!! Mike!! You've got pussification. We need to get alcohol in you right away"

3. Pussification

Taken from a George Carlin bit, referring to the reversal of roles and attitudes specifically of the American male due to being overly "politically correct."

Using soft language and avoiding confrontation and critisizm has resulted in the complete pussification of the american youth, as manifested by "emo", and "cyberbullying"

emo pussification wuss sissy *****-whipped

4. Pussification

To become a *****, wus, coward, whimp etc.

We are witnesses to the mass pussification of males as a result of the fload of female hormones in our water from the consumer use of the birth control pill.

Draft Dogers? That's pussification straight up!

I followed every rule pre and post-op and can't understand why people are/were so indisciplined that for a few weeks they couldn't be compliant. Isn't a lack of self control the reason we had surgery in the first place.

Hey, if someone wants to cheat that is on them. I chose not. I did not have surgery to see the disappointed look on the faces of my family because for a few months I couldn't control myself and ate the same things that made me morbidly obese.

I need to have healthy eating and a lifestyle become a habit before I sabotage myself. Will I have a little something unhealthy in the future maybe or maybe not. The sleeve as I have heard continuously is a tool to help us get on track, not something to be ignored and pushed to the side as we decide.

For all of those with no self control, think of it this way. Would you break and arm again after it has healed because you couldn't control yourself? I will not deprive myself of going our socially with friends or family, but I will make smart choices each time.

I have cooked things my family wanted like fried chicken and pork chops. I have made cookies with my family after being sleeved. However, not once did I even take a bite. I have helped my wife in the bakery she owns, but did not sample like I did in the past.

Remember significant weight gain can be in the future of all who don't practice sound judgement and self control.

Melodymouse ... That I so impressive !! What were the rules you followed to get you where you are ?

1. Protein first

2. Liquid second

3. Low fat, low sugar foods

4. Plenty of good carbs, fruits & veggies

5. Minimal simple carbs, grains & starches

6. Moderate exercise, something I could live with the rest of my life- walking, bicycling or just plain old keeping busy

And most important

7. Keeping a positive attitude and believing in myself!

I have a question because my Surgeons Preop diet is midnight before my surgery Im positive he wouldnt risk my liver

You obviously were not a High Risk person for liver damage. Individual medical history is such a vital piece to this puzzle and why a "one size fits all" approach doesn't work.

Melodymouse ... That I so impressive !! What were the rules you followed to get you where you are ?

I reached goal, five lbs under actually.....in six months. My 'rules' were imposed by ME, not the doctor. I strictly followed the program after surgery, the first six weeks, liquids, full liquids, soft food etc. I know that I had all those staples in me and I did not want to risk doing something to cause a leak, I didn't want anything 'lodging' in the staples, whatever CAN happen, I wanted to try and avoid. I am never one to think it can't happen to me....I'm of the mind set "Why not me, I'm not special" LoL

That said, I had myself on a no nonsense diet, nothing sweet, at all, not one thing, for six months. Nothing carbonated, that was the only "RULE" the only "No No" I was given.

Now I'm at goal, I make decisions, choices. Everyone, us former fatties and naturally thin folks, we should all make choices every day forever. That helps us avoid gaining weight, helps us avoid heart disease. I. E. 85% lean hamburger makes a killer tasting hamburger, but meat that is 93% lean is a wiser choice and it is far from yucky!! It's just a wiser choice, that is across the board, for everyone. My husband has a stent, he did not have a heart attack, by the grace of God, but he had a 95% blockage. I learned more than I ever thought I'd need to know for his cardiac dietitian.

More rule I imposed on myself, others might call them rules, I call them my new normal. I weigh or measure my food, every day....when we eat at home. I log my food on line, all of this is fun for me. I do not exercise, so I knew I'd need to make changes I could live with, forever. This is not a diet, it is how I live, forever.

I can't give anyone a list of rules, all I can do is say what has worked for me for almost three years. It's my story and how I do things. I'm sure others would think I'm a nut, but that's ok.

You obviously were not a High Risk person for liver damage. Individual medical history is such a vital piece to this puzzle and why a "one size fits all" approach doesn't work.

Ok, I thought all of us, at least everyone that is overweight, has a 'fatty' liver and they have to move it to get to our tummy, and it's easier with a "lean, mean" liver!!! LoL Did I misunderstand??!!!

There's some really angry, anal-retentive folks on this forum.

Just an observation.

Why does this 'term' make my skin crawl? Ick!

The term derives from Freudian psychoanalysis

Although the term "anal retentive" survives in common usage, the concept, along with much of Freud's theories of psychoanalysis, is largely regarded as unscientific "pop-psychology" and therefore discredited by the majority of psychologists of the late 20th and early 21st centuries.^[3] Chicago psychoanalyst Robert Galatzer-Levy speaks of how this theory of Freud is mostly a product of its time when indoor plumbing was new and less numerous per household, and families were large, causing "much more control of defecation than was necessary in a world of chamber pots and outhouses."^[4]

If these qualities continue into later life, the person is said to be "anal-retentive". Conversely, those who reject anal-retentive characteristics are said to have "anal-expulsive" personality types.

I prefer to tell somebody or I'd just rather someone tell me I'm full of ****, call a spade a spade. That's what we do in Texas....well, maybe we just say "Bless your heart"

Ok' date=' I thought all of us, at least everyone that is overweight, has a 'fatty' liver and they have to move it to get to our tummy, and it's easier with a "lean, mean" liver!!! LoL Did I misunderstand??!!![/quote']

Not all of us have one. I didn't, I was overweight but they said my liver was healthy looking when they went in.

1. Pussification

pussification(noun): the state in which a society becomes less and less tough. This noun's originator is the famous comedian George Carlin.

"We are undergoing a pussification of our entire society."

2. Pussification

The state of mind that a man undergoes when he has lost any control that he ever had in a relationship with a woman. The point in a relationship where a man becomes his mates personal b***h. Once pussification takes over the man will spend every waking minute thinking of ways to please his mate.

"Hey Mike, wanna grab a beer after work?"

"Thanks guys, but I can't, I have to hurry home to give the cat a bath so that I'll have time to watch Seventh Heaven with the princess"

"Holy ****!! Mike!! You've got pussification. We need to get alcohol in you right away"

3. Pussification

Taken from a George Carlin bit, referring to the reversal of roles and attitudes specifically of the American male due to being overly "politically correct."

Using soft language and avoiding confrontation and critisizm has resulted in the complete pussification of the american youth, as manifested by "emo", and "cyberbullying"

emo pussification wuss sissy *****-whipped

4. Pussification

To become a *****, wus, coward, whimp etc.

We are witnesses to the mass pussification of males as a result of the fload of female hormones in our Water from the consumer use of the birth control pill.

Draft Dogers? That's pussification straight up!

This entire post makes me giggle, thanks!

I reached goal' date=' five lbs under actually.....in six months. My 'rules' were imposed by ME, not the doctor. I strictly followed the program after surgery, the first six weeks, liquids, full liquids, soft food etc. I know that I had all those staples in me and I did not want to risk doing something to cause a leak, I didn't want anything 'lodging' in the staples, whatever CAN happen, I wanted to try and avoid. I am never one to think it can't happen to me....I'm of the mind set "Why not me, I'm not special" LoL

That said, I had myself on a no nonsense diet, nothing sweet, at all, not one thing, for six months. Nothing carbonated, that was the only "RULE" the only "No No" I was given.

Now I'm at goal, I make decisions, choices. Everyone, us former fatties and naturally thin folks, we should all make choices every day forever. That helps us avoid gaining weight, helps us avoid heart disease. I. E. 85% lean hamburger makes a killer tasting hamburger, but meat that is 93% lean is a wiser choice and it is far from yucky!! It's just a wiser choice, that is across the board, for everyone. My husband has a stent, he did not have a heart attack, by the grace of God, but he had a 95% blockage. I learned more than I ever thought I'd need to know for his cardiac dietitian.

More rule I imposed on myself, others might call them rules, I call them my new normal. I weigh or measure my food, every day....when we eat at home. I log my food on line, all of this is fun for me. I do not exercise, so I knew I'd need to make changes I could live with, forever. This is not a diet, it is how I live, forever.

I can't give anyone a list of rules, all I can do is say what has worked for me for almost three years. It's my story and how I do things. I'm sure others would think I'm a nut, but that's ok.[/quote']

You are not a nut. Good set of rules to follow. Mine are similar.

You are not a nut. Good set of rules to follow. Mine are similar.

It's good to know that I'm not alone, it just all makes sense to me, kind of no brainer. I know me, and if I were to not keep track and all the nit picky stuff I do (for the record, it's like a game to me, one that I'm winning!), I am scared if I had not made these changes, it would be katy barr the door.....and I'd let ten lbs sneak back on me, then another four next year and five the following. You see where I'm going? That is how I ended up having WLS!!!