Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

This has been a very interesting thread. I've enjoyed it. One thing I often want to say to people on here is put the darn scale away!

I am two weeks out and started this journey October 4, 2012. Since 7/17/12, I am down 85 lbs and 52 of that since Oct. If I didn't lose another pound I would be happy. The surgery and recovery has been amazing for me. I can have hot and cold foods, I have been eating cottage cheese, tuna, and smoked salmon for he last 4 days. Not once have I vomited or had the runs.

Here's where it gets interesting for me. There have been very few rules. I have no Protein or carb requirements. No banned foods. These are what my dr/nut recommend.

2 week liq diet pre-op. if you need to eat anything consider tuna or eggs. High protein low cal foods.

No alcohol for one year. No ice cream.

Two week full diet post op. followed by puréed foods for two weeks and two weeks of soft foods. Eat your protein first. Have 1/4 protein and 1/4 fruit, veggies or carbs.

No calorie counting.

I weigh every single morning. I've done this starting two months prior to surgery. Doc recommends it, so do I. I can drop two or three lbs at the drop of a hat, eight or nine, not quite as easy. I also log my food and weigh or measure all my food when at home. It works for me, this is my new life. It's like a game, it's habit, I love it. I feel like I am in control now, food is not. Doctor's nurse told me I was a little 'rigid' (you think??!!!) and she followed that with 'and it works for you' I enjoy life, the only thing off limits is carbonated drinks. Big deal. He said, this is NOT a diet, this is a new way of life. I love it!

NtvTxn. I'd say you're a rare breed. Seems most people obsess about the number on the scale. Glad it's working for you and you're right it's not a diet but a lifestyle.

wow....honest, articulate, funny. i agree with you on your post....happy journey!

NtvTxn. I'd say you're a rare breed. Seems most people obsess about the number on the scale. Glad it's working for you and you're right it's not a diet but a lifestyle.

It's not for everyone, I'm sure of it, but it works for me. I don't like to say we're on a program or have rules. The only thing Dr. D said 'no' to is a coke, I can live with that, no problem. I had four a year maybe, and only because I like a fountain coke with crushed ice every so often when we're out. Now I have iced Water with a couple of lemon wedges. Nothing else is off limits to me, I know I can have between 1200 and 1300 calories a day to maintain. I cannot eat much at one time, so I have several Snacks a day. Some times a graham cracker with a little PB2 on it, some times steamed shrimp or lunch meat. There are times when I have a shower to attend or whatever and know I'm going to have a cupcake or piece of cake that is higher in calories than my 'Mini vanilla Scone' from StarBucks.....so I adjust, less snacking or if I'm up a pound or two, not a big deal, NORMAL people, naturally thin people go up and down. It's life! We are all lucky to get a chance to really be successful.....we really are.

Since this thread was revived, I’ll offer my two-cents’ worth.

On this forum, we have an overwhelming number of self-assigned experts on weight loss, dieting, nutrition, and vertical sleeve gastrectomies based on a case study of one.

For one year after my surgery, I attended a monthly support group of VSG patients in my doctor’s office. We would just go around the room sharing our experiences mostly. What amazed me was how different everyone’s experience with the surgery and recovery was. One guy reported he could enjoy steak at 4 weeks out and someone else would say that he couldn’t eat steak until 4 months after surgery. Some people can’t tolerate salad, I eat it with every dinner. I don’t think anything is more personal and individualized than weight gain, weight loss, and immediate and long-term responses to this surgery.

I can tell you what worked for me and that’s it. As I see it, I have no right at all to instruct someone else about what they should be doing based on what worked for me or what my doctor advised me to do. Even with something like knee surgery, each recovery plan is very different based on the specific type of injury that was repaired. We all have different histories with weight gain, diets, and weight loss and different issues with food.

I was a skinny kid and then a skinny adult until I had an accident. I didn’t get fat because I ate too much "junk food". I got fat because I ate too much food, period. I used to be a semi-professional athlete before a serious knee injury laid me up. When you are running 5 miles every day, you can come home and put away a 16 ounce steak and a big plate of spaghetti with no problem. I used to eat like there was no tomorrow and I never gained an ounce because I was always active. Problem is I continued to eat like that and even more after my injury because I got seriously depressed. I went from being a skinny guy to becoming a fat man in just two years.

This surgery was perfect for me because it did what I needed it to do. It forced me to reduce my portions of food at each meal. I eat the same way now that I used to before the injury except just in much smaller quantities and I have been 8 pounds under goal for almost 9 months.

Before my knee injury I was a young, healthy athlete and I occasionally ate a Big Mac, a piece of candy and a chunk of cake. Now, almost two years after surgery, I am a middle-aged healthy adult who still occasionally eats (a few bites of) a McDonald's sausage McMuffin with half an order of hash browns, a Baby Ruth candy bar, and a 3 oz portion of full fat ice cream. I am as physically healthy today as I was 5 years ago and I have the doctor's report and blood work to prove that.

Still, I have no more right to warn forum members that they are going to fail because they are not learning how to eat all foods in moderation than someone else warning me that I am going to fail because I still eat chocolate and ice cream. Based on my sustained results, they would be 100% wrong. Even if there was a real doctor or licensed therapist on this forum, he or she would have no right to dispense warnings without at least reviewing that person’s medical file and then meeting with the patient. This is the real reason I am not a regular contributor on this forum. These forums appear not to be moderated and I have no interest in my posts being attacked or insulted by people who don't personally approve of my approach to weight loss and weight loss maintenance. I also don’t need or want lay medical advice. I have real licensed healthcare professionals that I rely on for that.

Is strict calorie monitoring considered dieting? If so, then I will be on diet for the rest of my life. If eating everything I used to eat and want to eat now but in much smaller quantities means I'm not on a diet, then I can honestly write that I have never been on a diet even once during my entire life.

From the first day I could start eating solid foods, I have been tracking all my calories. From one year ago, I started using the BodyMedia Fit Link armband to monitor my daily calorie burn. I didn’t have this surgery to leave anything to chance. I weigh myself every single morning as advised by my doctor and nutritionist and I monitor everything that I consume. I also keep records of my calorie intake and expenditures for each month and use them for review.

What has made keeping the weight off effortless for me is following Dr. Michael Mosley’s Fast Diet. For two days out of the week (Monday and Thursday), I eat a 600 calorie high Protein diet divided into two meals and separated by a 12 hour period (like 250 calories at 7:30 am for Breakfast and then 350 calories at 7:30 pm for dinner). Then for the other five days, I eat 25% over my daily calorie burn to maintain my current weight. My nutritionist told me that a healthy diet is a well-balanced one and that includes carbohydrates, protein and fat, all three. I follow the percentages recommended by MFP. When I was still trying to lose, I would eat a little less so that I was running a 5200 calorie deficit a week, which comes to a pound and a half weight loss every week. Do a search on “Mosley Fast Diet” for free information about his Fast Diet if you are interested. This program has been very easy for me to follow. Please consult with your doctor before starting any type of fasting diet.

I am not a doctor or a licensed psychotherapist so I can’t advise anyone about what they should be doing. I have seen members threaten other members here with failure, illness, an "unhealthy life", and even death if they didn’t follow the same program they had come up with for themselves. All I can do is write about what has worked very successfully for me. If you can relate to my story and reading about what has worked for me has you thinking or rethinking about what might work for you, wonderful. If not, please ignore what I just wrote and be sure to consult with your own healthcare professionals before trying anything new.

Amen to what SkinnyMalink said. There have been a couple of people that suggested I would fail because I choose to make my own post op diet decisions. I didn't have the majority of my stomach removed just to be on a restrictive diet the rest of my life - or even for 6 weeks post op. I can't even come close to eating the way I did before surgery and this being the case, I will lose weight. If I eat less than 1000 calories a day the weight will fall off in due time. Oh - and I'll just go out on a limb here with another "failure-prone" comment. Yes protein is important, yes we should all put nutrition 1st when choosing what to eat, BUT .....when you get down to it a calorie and is calorie no matter where it comes from. If I eat 900 calories of pop tarts one day and nothing else, I'm still within my daily limit. Self proclaimed experts don't like my way of thinking? Who cares?? Personally I don't give a rip. Don't bother berating me with tales of failure.

baby buff did that work for you?

thank you skinny well said. i also didnt get the surgery to diet again i got it to not diet controlled portiions. im not low carb, low fat eat this eat that. i am doing well. my numbers are not big on the scale but my inches are off the charts check out the pic.

its true there are some ppl that try and make you feel bad because you not doing what they did. hats off to those ppl. but i feel my program through kaiser is great and the stages i went trhough worked fine. so kudos to SHARON, SKINNY, AND NTV. I AM NOT A COOKIE CUTTER, I AM ME AND YOU ARE YOU.

baby buff did that work for you?

Did what work for me? Sorry, I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Personally, even though I am only two weeks out so far I'd say everything has worked for me. This has been a great adventure but I'd say that about my life in general.

newgrandmother you look beautiful!

sharon thanks. i say forget the numbers. going from a size 24/26 to a 16 beat the numbers any day

thank you skinny well said. i also didnt get the surgery to diet again i got it to not diet controlled portiions. im not low carb, low fat eat this eat that. i am doing well. my numbers are not big on the scale but my inches are off the charts check out the pic.

its true there are some ppl that try and make you feel bad because you not doing what they did. hats off to those ppl. but i feel my program through kaiser is great and the stages i went trhough worked fine. so kudos to SHARON, SKINNY, AND NTV. I AM NOT A COOKIE CUTTER, I AM ME AND YOU ARE YOU.

I'm a little confused. I'm not sure why I am included in this message. I haven't gone back and read all the posts, but I do know I do not advise unless someone asks and I don't want any "mini mes" or "cookie cutter mes" walking around. Like you, I am ME, not a cookie cutter of anybody else. I have learned from others on this board, I joined six months prior to surgery. I learned what to do and what to avoid. All I can do is say what works for me. I also exercise NONE, ZERO - unless you count choosing stairs and parking far out in parking lots 'exercise'. I do not. I am not an exercise guru, my attention span is short and I get bored easily. I had to make life changes that I can do and this is what works for me. I do NOT recommend that others throw a weighted ball around a few times a month and call it good. If running, lifting weights etc is what keeps others going, I admire you. I'll pass, thanks!

I posted on here long ago when it was first started, and wanted to add again. First of all, I will say I am 2.5 years post op, I have learned a lot along the way. When I had my surgery I never tracked, I never went low carb, I never exercised (and I still don't)...I did not want to have to do those things for the rest of my life and feel like I was on a diet.

Now, that being said...I did change the way I ate. I limited the white stuff (flour, sugar, rice) and changed what I ate on a daily basis. I quit drinking with my meals (and still don't) and ate more protein rich foods (I quit drinking protein drinks fairly early out and still rarely drink them). I have taken a 80/20 approach, eat healthy most of the time (80%ish) but don't miss out on the foods I enjoy (20%ish). So I still eat ice cream, chocolate, chips, etc, but only occasionally.

Now, the reality of this surgery. And you might hate me, I might get slammed, you can take it or leave it, but whatever you decide, it really is the truth...you can not go into this thinking you will make NO changes to your lifestyle and maintain forever. The losing is the easy part, just like diets of days gone by, it is the maintaining that is harder. There are so many foods that once you are past a year out, you can eat a lot of, I know from experience. From what I have seen, once some people hit around the 18 month mark, they start gaining. I have seen it a lot in my local support groups. Why? Because they start to fall into old habits, snacking on slider foods, and becoming complacent. It sounds a little depressing, but you will still have to be aware of what you are eating for a lifetime. Lots of it becomes habit and it is easier. The sleeve did not take away my desire to eat, I still enjoy food and I still like junk food. I have had to make the effort to set up my environment so that I can be successful, or else I would gain, probably every pound back.

Does it mean you have to become obsessed, of course not. Everyone has to do what works for them. Some people take things to either extreme. My approach, make changes that you know you can live with for a lifetime.

nlv i was giving you a kudos for a job well done, did you really read what i said about you. i read how you are doing your own thing and i was giving you a thumbs up. please read again. NLV my grammer sucks just read that last part again

super :) your are super cool in my book. you have just said everything i have tried to say but i have a hard time putting things into words. thank you so much for that. OMG thank you for making me realize i am normal. when i planned on having the surgery i no longer wanted to diet, diet, diet no more low carb no more starving myself.. I have always eaten healthy just to much of it. the surgery helps me control my portions and like your yes i enjoy food just like before surgery just cant enjoy like i use to. again your are super for posting this