Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

To the OP: great post! I have pretty much gotten the same info from my surgeon. Eat what you can tolerate.

Since surgery, my only complication was developing a sinus infection which kept me in an ongoing battle w nausea, coughing, and sometimes not being able to keep things down. But it was not from having the sleeve, it was from keeping my stomach in stress from coughing sooo much and so hard. My doc told me when I was having trouble getting things down, that it didn't matter what it was, if I could tolerate it, drink or eat it. This kept me off of iv fluids and pic lines.

After surgery I have also noticed that I do not crave all the junk foods as I did before. Seeing a picture of a McDonalds quarter pounder no longer makes me want to go buy one and swallow it in 5 minutes. Do I want one now and then? Sure, but I also know how all that grease will feel and just say no lol.

My surgeon also said that when you have a craving take 2 bites. 2 bites will curb that craving while maintaining everything you have done. 2 bites is not going to hurt anyone unless it becomes 2 bites.. Then 2 more a few minutes later.. Then later... I am changing my habits. But as my surgeon said to do, I will never deprive myself of anything just because I was sleeved.

Do I eat extremely slow? No. As a teacher I get maybe 20 minutes to actually eat, and 5 of that is to heat up whatever I brought. I don't have the luxury to eat that slow. HOWEVER, I also cannot eat as fast without discomfort. I listen to my body. I view the "rules" as guidelines. I can't always follow them, but I do what I can.

If you feel like you have to follow the rules 100% then do it, and know that it will work for you! But for all of us who struggled to stay on a diet and were miserable with cravings while on a diet, the rules can be bent, and some can be broken. But if you break it, keep the duct tape handy invade you need it again!

I don't think it was a long post. I think it hit the nail on the head.

Nowhere did i tell people to do what I am doing but to stop the "oh, man, can i have one pretzel". Or "Oh, I am soooo bad and feel so guilty. I cheated today and had half a piece of toast... ".. It's silly.. Read the title of the post.. it's about OBSESSING :-=)

Now this is an idea I can get behind.

BTW....all this talk about cravings. I would never lick doritos. But I did lick wheat thins about 8 days after surgery....God they were good.

Your post was greatly needed and I'm sure we all relate.... I don't feel so bad for eating when I'm hungry. I'm learning my new sleeve and not going starve in the process.. to each their own.

I don't know how you guys ate solid food so early! I am 4 weeks postop and it hurts to eat ground turkey.

Plus, I'm the kind of person that buys a bag of chocolate to have one piece a day and end up eating the whole bag. Once I break the "rules" I have a real hard time getting back on track (speaking preop here). With that being said, I eased into soft food while on the blended diet, adding things slowly. I still have not tried real chicken or anything "bad". I think it's best for me to take it slow. To each his own .

I'm three weeks out and I have to say that following the "rules" have been driving me batty. Mostly because everyone has different rules so... whose' right? how can every post-op be so different? I wanted this surgery for a better life to be able take weight off and keep it off (this is where I usually fail) ..not to live in a bubble. I have a 5 year old and want to enjoy life with him that will at some point include a Christmas cookie or an ice cream cone.

My post-op has me starting puree's this week...i'm board of eating and find my self barely getting in 3/400 calories (i also hate Protein drinks) so for me i started soft foods - I very much enjoyed carrots this afternoon and an egg tonight. all i really wanted was a meatball (first thing I've craved!). I have a NUT appointment tomorrow and was going to tell her just this - I'm glad you posted this because many of us do feel this way.

None of us got here because we are good with food and limits - i know chips and chocolate out but i can't wait for my first glass of wine to live this new life!

First full day on real food here on day 9... Yogurt parfait with all sorts of fresh fruit for breakfast..... Kippered salmon and hummus for lunch.. A banana for a snack and dinner was a pan grilled turkey burger with low fat swiss cheese (no bun yet for me) and a side of garlic and olive oil freshly sauteed veggies and then steamed to make a tad more mushy. Um, YUMMMMM. All went down great.. We are all dif because each doc has a diff view of what issues they want to deal with and believe it best.... That was also my point. If you are dying, my doc suggests having a half of meatball, although since it has bread in it, they want me to grill up some steaks tenderly, chicken, pork, beef and play with diff foods.. So far loving the new adventure today. Thank goodness this was is my nut/docs views or else I'd be pulling my hair out... I get one more snack today and i'll be at 1000 calories.. Bear in mind. that is 200 more than you on liquid have.. So thats one extra pound each two weeks or two pounds less I will lose than you over the next month.. I'm , umm, FINE with that, lol

Oh, As noted, the lack of liquid diet hasn't hurt my results. Here is a pix before and after posted showing 3 weeks (1 pre liquid and 2 post pureed).. SWEEEET lol

I have seen this discussion on a lot of forums. Moderation vs. strict. The people who do well with moderation are those who have the self-control to stop at one or two of the treats like chocolate or candy or ice cream or what have you. The ones who don't do well can't stop at one or two. They have to eat until they are stuffed. Those people do well with being strict. One lady I have seen said she does moderation with FOODS SHE CAN CONTROl. For example, she will eat crackers or chips because she is satisfied with just a few. BUT, she cannot moderate ice cream so she doesn't even buy it or bring it in her home. She just won't eat it period. So there is strict--there is moderation---and there is moderation of foods that you CAN control. I think it just takes figuring out what you personally need to do.

I am 6 months out and agree about 60 percent. While rules are difficult to follow, people should follow in the early stages. This is major, major surgery and you need to give your stomach and body a chance to heal. Protein helps you heal...Doritos do not. Once you are healed and experienced with the new stomach...of course figure out what works for you. This is my best advice looking back over the last 6 months.

Loved your post Neil. People need to keep in mind the SPIRIT behind it, not read it as a directive that Doctor's orders are to be ignored. P.S. You lost 10 years in addition to those pounds

I also can't imagine a Dr telling his sleeve patients its OK to be eating a meatball within 2 weeks of having surgery. Sorry, but I think I am calling BS on this. I'm not just talking from my personal experience. I tried eating eating ground turkey meatball 1 month post-op ... no way. Too painful. 2 months post-op, same thing. I believe it was at 3 months I could handle it, and tried a ground beef one and it, too was painful. 6 months before eating beef was OK for me.

At our nutrition seminar, our NUT told the story of a man who had a steak 1 week post-op and died. I don't think she was making the story up to put the fear in us and after having been there, done that, I could see how having a steak post-op would have killed me.

I don't think I am the norm, nor was I atypical, but I just can't fathom ANY Dr suggesting the kinds of things you are saying. Now, if he is just directing these things at you, that is something else altogether. To suggest that others should throw caution to the wind and do it too is just irresponsible. If this is what you are suggesting, then I gotta mark you as a troll and not a true VSG recipient who wants to come on a WLS board and f*ck with a bunch of people's heads.

Maybe I'm in left field, here, but ...

@pdxman, are you still on your post op pain meds? Really? someone will troll a site and waste their time ? u r too funny. re-read what I wrote. Man. FIRST OF ALL, my doc and NUT met with me. As yours does. We talked about what I have been eating and how well it's gone and what I cheated on.. His plan for anyone on week 3 is full diet.. Protein first and good choices. So, yes, I went shopping after and bought steaks and chicken and pork chops and hard cheeses and you name it. YES< I ATE THEM TODAY . So, my friend, it does work and if you read the replies, many on here also had the same luck. I'm not suggesting that people who can't tolerate the stuff do it and any doc who would tell a patient that is having trouble to progress faster would be a quack.. I'd post my post op diet from them, but not sure if you are a troll on here, who just casually reads posts and makes pompous comments.. :-)

PS. Umm, having ONE friggin Dorito instead of obsessing about licking the powder is not exactly throwing caution to the wind now, my exaggerating friend.

PPS I'm grilling steaks tomorrow. If you don't see me online after, then I guess i'm the person who you can say died from it.. OY.... I also heard when his guests work up, it said "welcome to the world of aids" on his bathroom mirror and then his brother was found in the tub, filled with ice with his liver taken out... THen when going outside he heard a scratching on his car roof and went outside and found it was his friend, dead, hanging from a tree, with his feet going over the car... Then he went for gas and the attendant told him that there was an axe murderer hiding in his back seat.. OY

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Yeah ... this ^^^ surely isn't troll behavior is it? And you passed the psych exam? Hmmm ... definately troll.