Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

@butter I stick to my original post. I am not lumping. I am speaking of a)the pre diet liquid obsession.. If it is killing you then have a bowl of veggie or chicken soup.. Live it up. It is PROVEN to not affect your liver for the surgery if you do it only once or twice, etc.. the post 1 to 6 week diet folk who are on liquids.. Well, since many docs allow puree on day 2, I still stick to my post and tell those who are having a hard go on week 2 or 3 or 4, etc post op liquid to live it up and take a 4 oz can of tuna, for ex, add two TB of light mayo. add some salt, dash of sugar and some onion powder and pepper and have an INCREDIBLY healthy meal (sub canned chicken if you don't like fish) that will indeed be on their lifetime diet.. It won;t hurt them was my point and I was really dealing with those obsessing on here.. I get it and was trying to help.. People fantasizing about food, what they'll have in 7 weeks, etc.. GO for it.. It's ok if your stomach can handle it.. eat slowly and wait for reaction. I'm NO doc and No shrink, of course, but was never my intention. BTW, YAY on the comment on laid back sleevers. I'm too new to know if I'll be one, but suspect I will but also am incorporating (or plan 2) the second group, that also watches healthy eating and working out etc..

Way to lump us all together.

There are other types of people on here as well....those who have severe eating disorders and have not addressed them before surgery. They are not laid back and they certainly are not health nuts. Which way should they be advised to go?

Or what about people who have severe (non weight) related issues like auto-immune diseases? What about....the list is endless. We really aren't two groups as if we are divided down the middle. At least I hope not!

I really wasn't going to post as i was enjoying just reading all the silly going ons. But, this one got me. I thought the whole idea of this forum was accepting each others individuality?

As for the OP? I put his post down as excitement. He's only 2 weeks out, people! Remember the ups and downs and aha moments your first month? True, I think it was rather irresponsible to spout off as he did as if it were all facts, but did you guys catch that he's a 'motivational speaker?' I'll keep my personal feelings out of that profession, but most are paid to speak as if what they say is the honest to God only way to be. (I say most because there are SOME good motivational speakers out there. Opps, my opinion got in the way.)

I just hope that newbies follow their doc's orders because your doctor is the one who is helping you with your care. If he doesn't want you to have that dorito, don't have it!

About Obsessing? If someone is so obsessive about food post surgery that they are going agnst their docs orders, then if they don't get help for their eating disorder (which led us all to this surgery to begin with) then down the road they will more than likely have a harder time. So to me, it's sad that the OP was celebrating that it's ok to disobey their personal docs orders.

Again, I rarely join these debates, but this one bugs me on too many levels to be quiet.

@butter I stick to my original post. I am not lumping. I am speaking of a)the pre diet liquid obsession.. If it is killing you then have a bowl of veggie or chicken soup.. Live it up. It is PROVEN to not affect your liver for the surgery if you do it only once or twice' date=' etc.. <img src='http://www.bariatricpal.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> the post 1 to 6 week diet folk who are on liquids.. Well, since many docs allow puree on day 2, I still stick to my post and tell those who are having a hard go on week 2 or 3 or 4, etc post op liquid to live it up and take a 4 oz can of tuna, for ex, add two TB of light mayo. add some salt, dash of sugar and some onion powder and pepper and have an INCREDIBLY healthy meal (sub canned chicken if you don't like fish) that will indeed be on their lifetime diet.. It won;t hurt them was my point and I was really dealing with those obsessing on here.. I get it and was trying to help.. People fantasizing about food, what they'll have in 7 weeks, etc.. GO for it.. It's ok if your stomach can handle it.. eat slowly and wait for reaction. I'm NO doc and No shrink, of course, but was never my intention. BTW, YAY on the comment on laid back sleevers. I'm too new to know if I'll be one, but suspect I will but also am incorporating (or plan 2) the second group, that also watches healthy eating and working out etc..[/quote']

I repeat....IRRESPONSIBLE POST. Do what your own surgeon tells you to do. Period. Until all the studies are done and a united protocol is established, follow your docs orders because he is the one treating you.

Amen Doxie!!!!!

Why bother responding to your post when you go back and edit, add and back track everything you say.

And yes you edit every single post by volumes and changes galore.

A valid debate never needs editing once given.

Umm @lessofme, I have not yet spoken about anything OTHER THAN the one week preop and the two weeks post op, of which I have completed just like anyone with 2 years of sleeve history.. So, not quite. That's why I don't comment on the future. I did call my DOC and said I was dying and they said to live it up pre surgery with some soup. So, feel free for anyone to call ur doc and ask.. My bro also okd it.. So, not blind on what my doc and many have told me and what I did for my first 3 weeks. Just sayin'

It seems that there are two major groups on this forum. Those who get the sleeve and use the tool to eat less and loose weight and those who get the sleeve to kick off a new life of healthly eating' date=' exersice, Protein shakes and basicly a totally new life. The first group, in which I belong, is a little more laid back, we are going to incorporate birthday cake and margaritas. I would love it if the group of "Sleeve life changer- health nuts" would give us "Laid back sleevers" a break and not accuse of us of being trolls, or giving bad advice. We have a different lifestyle, it is okay not to be just like you, I promise. There needs to be room for both types of people on this forum. When I first started reading I thought the only people on here were health fanatics, I am glad to see there are people who are not running 5k's and drinking protein shakes 4 weeks out.[/quote']

I'm in neither of those groups, what I am is someone who had to shoot myself in the *ss with insulin every other day, and take 2 diabetes and 2 b/p meds everyday because of eating too much of the wrong stuff. If you've never had a chronic illness, or never had to worry about losing a leg, going blind, or not being able to have children, then you have no clue. Maybe you just "wanted to eat less and lose some weight", so you can buy some new clothes, that's fine too. I did this to save my life, so you can put me in the Sleeve Life Savers club, and I guarantee there are lot more us out there than in your other groups.

Forgot to mention the OP about Caffeine. (I'm not going to copy the whole post, just go to the OP if you are just joining us.).

It IS bad for those with more acidic stomachs. It truly is. I'm not a coffee drinker so if coffee drinkers want to help me here, i'm pretty sure that caffeine/coffee is acidic? And that's the last thing our poor 'new' tummies need.

So I have read through all the posts on here, and I agree on some and disagree on others. I am getting close to my 2 yr anniversary, so I am not sure if that allocates me as a veteran, but I do think have a more experience than some.

Here is my take. The rules are there to help people develop new habits. I used my first 6 months to develop new eating habits that I could live with. Did you read that part, that I could LIVE with. I do worry about some of the people on here that go to absolute extremes with post-op diet, obsessing over every calorie, carb or Protein gram that passes their lips. Neilsleeve, you are correct in that. We were all good at diets, but diets are not something that you can live with forever. I never counted or weighed anything. BUT, I did use that time, like I said, to form a new routine, a new way of looking at food, and a new way of eating.

I think telling people to go out and eat whatever they want is not good advice. Like ButtertheBean said, there are the people out there that have not dealt with their issues and are just waiting for someone to say it is ok to eat a chip. I don't think people can go into this surgery expecting to not change a single thing and have a positive result. Sure, you will lose weight. Will you reach your goal, maybe, maybe not. Will you be able to maintain, chances are probably not. The further out you are, the more you can eat. And trust me, although it is nothing compared to what a person could eat pre-op, if you aren't careful, you can eat a substantial amount. And if you continue to eat foods that are unhealthy, you are going to be in trouble. How do I know, I have seen it. I have seen others that have went through the same program that I have. They have not changed anything. Eating chips and crackers, eating fries everyday and justifying it by saying, well, I can just eat a little. And some of those people have lost the weight, only to start to regain. Maybe not the 100lbs that they lost, but all of a sudden they have put 20 or 30 lbs back on, which is harder to lose 2 years out than 2 months out. It takes 1 year to form a new habit, take the first post op year to form yours.

I do completely agree with the obsessing. Now, you have to do what works for you. But, cutting out complete food groups or going to eating extremes does not form a healthy relationship with food nor do I think that it is sustainable for the long term. If I like Bananas and I post a recipe with Bananas, I am not asking you to come on here and preach to me about how "fattening" bananas are. Do they have carbs? Yes. Are they higher in calories than other fruits? Yes. Are they unhealthy? No. If your world is consumed by every morsel you are putting in your mouth, you are going to be miserable. Like I said, I have never counted anything, and I have never dieted. But I also know my trigger foods and do not keep them in my house. Does that mean I never have anything that would be classed as a treat? Hell no! I have ice cream, I have chocolate, and I have chips. They key is, I only have small amounts and I do not have them often. The key here is healthy, lifelong changes, not diets.

The last point I would like to make, and sorry for the long post, but it was touched on, is the guilt and shame around food. We have spent our whole lives feeling guilty and made to feel bad about what we eat. It creates a vicious cycle of eating something we think we shouldn't, feeling guilty and beating ourselves up, and then eating more to shove down the pain of the guilt. The sleeve is an opportunity to develop a healthy relationship with food. And it is not easy. There are days that I still struggle. But I have worked very hard at putting those feelings in their place. If I have a few chips, should I feel bad about it. No? If I eat half a bag of chips, should I feel bad? Equally, no. Learn from it and use it as a chance to change. Tomorrow is a new day and use that new day to make better choices. Let's stop beating ourselves up and berating ourselves every day. I am not going to let food define who I am anymore.

Geeze, @lessofme, I don't think you have been reading clearly. I agree with you!! Same goes for any food. If YOUR OWN stomach can't handle anything don't do it.. My point was for those who know they won't stay off coffee and don't want to and whose bellies can handle it.... Then my post remains valid.. U guys who don't agree with things crack me up, but I enjoy give and take and glad there is such passion on this. Funny how the vast majority like this post and so agree and about a quarter think I'm the antichrist. I'm Jewish, but not that lol

wow I could say so much on this topic but it has been said by Pookiesm, PDXman,Butterthebean and Doxie so Im done here. I just want to say I am a firm believer in following doctors orders. Also my Dr instructs me himself not his brother so I feel confident it is his expertise I am following.

best of luck to everyone.

Surgery and healing from it is serious business.

Great post SuperS!

And I think many of us agree with you.

What bothers me about the OP is he's saying have what people are obsessing about only 2 weeks out. That really doesn't help develop true better eating habits down the road.

Amen LessofMe!!! :-)

actually I think you arent reading clearly, I didnt post about the coffee lol

that was Doxie but I can say I totally agree with her

good day

actually I think you arent reading clearly' date=' I didnt post about the coffee lol

that was Doxie but I can say I totally agree with her <img src='http://www.bariatricpal.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

good day[/quote']

LOL!