Ok. Rules are SOMETIMES meant to be broken. So, Here's the deal. I am 2 weeks post op today. I am one of those who had zero issues and had a smooth ride from recovery room to date!! This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's!

I have read almost every post on here before and after surgery, lol. Here is the point that I will explain. Your/Our obsession over following diet rules is what got us here in the first place.. isn't it?? I mean, it's great to have black and white rules.. Do's and Don's. can and cant's.. That's why we were ALL great on Atkins (remember the carb counting obsession), and South Beach (remember how carefully we chose the meals), weight watchers, low cal, grapefruit, slimfast , yada yada yada......RIGHT?

Sure, it worked. THEN WE WENT OFF THE WAGON and got sick of the rules and restrictions and put weight back on (and then some).... That's because it was a DIET.. Why do so many of you do that on here? I'm not judging, but trying to help! Yes, it's easier for me, since I have had no issues. I come from a strong medical family (i had bio as a minor,4 docs and 2 nurses in immed family) and I always love to understand WHY the rules are in place. If something doesn't make sense, I want to know why and not just follow a rule because it was put out there.

My surgeon told me that "rules" are on here for the lower end of reaction spectrum. meaning, many need not follow them, but since 30%, for ex, will have issues with some things, they want to make a general rule......

As EVERYONE says on here, as well as EVERY doc, ALL OF US ARE DIFFERENT! We heal differently, We tolerate pain differently, foods differently, weight loss differently, etc..... EVERY SINGLE ONE So, the rules need not be applied to the T!

Now, as a caveat and from feedback so far on this post, this is not an excuse to eat junk NOR stay on bad habits. I don't mean to enable anyone. here is what BUTTERTHEBEAN wrote:

"The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally."

Ok... Back to the post. Specifically, here is what I have had debunked by my brother (Anesthesiologist for bariatric), My mom (nurse and nutritionist), my bro's good friend and bariatric surgeon, and my surgeon..........

* Yes, the liquid PRE OP diet is not to be messed with. It sucked, but we need the liver to be soft and looking like liver in a supermarket. That will happen in most cases with one week.. Many docs do one week only and many do 2 weeks..... So, if you have a 2 week doc, don't worry if you cheat a little and wants some low calorie food.. It's OK!! have the Soup... etc. I didn't cheat as mine was only a week and I did not want to have a lifetime of liver issues if it was frail and broke a bit/injured while being moved for my surgery....

* Most docs on here POST OP put you on liquids for 2 weeks.. Why?? NOTHING medical. Really? Many docs, including mine, put me on Clear Liquids only day 1 in the hospital and then put me instantly on pureed foods (tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, greek yogurts, ricotta cheese, etc).. Yes. DAY 2! He does this for EVERY patient.. He has had NO MORE COMPLICATIONS than anyone else ever.... It is NOT true that eating this will cause a leak.. It can't get caught in you stitches, lol, as they are on the outside and you can't see them even in your stomach.. The ONLY risk is a)that you eat way too much and thus can cause leaks, so don't do that. and that is WAY too much. Meaning you go out of your way to test the limits. As any surgeon will tell you, stretching the stomach to break the staples is no easy task.... easy enough to follow that rule .. and the risk is that you get nauseated.. Ok.. we are all different. Some take 90 minutes the first time they eat to get down 4 oz of chicken salad.. I didn't . I got it down in 15 min and could have done it in 5..... But the point is, listen to your body. start slowly and if you tolerate it, then screw the rules.....

What does this mean? It means so what if you doc put you on 2 week post liquid. That is soo hard.. so, do it mostly, but don't obsess about cheating. have a friggin plate of tuna salad.. It will taste yummy.. Add some great yogurt. If you can handle it, you are good to go! I did.. They also want you on this liquid to max your weight loss for motivation up front? do you really need that?? I don't care if it takes me 1 more week than you to hit the same goal? Frankly, I decided to keep my calories around 800ish anyway for my first 2 weeks. It was a little hard, but nothing like your liquid nightmare and i lost as much weight... I'm now on 1200 cal full diet plan (less hard carbs and hard veggies) as of last night.

I've heard people say they are craving one Dorito chip.. Then the advice replies were "lick the cheese off" or "take a bit and spit it out...." LOL. Really? This is your diet/lifestyle for the rest of your life. HAVE A CHIP.. See if you get a lot of gas.. Chew it well.. If not problem, then enjoy the one chip. You got here because you at a half bag . One or three chips won't kill you! You need to find a way to eat what you will do.. The docs want you to build your healthy habits now.

*The first year is where you get your max weight loss- Ok. For sure,, so, as noted, build your healthy habits now.. but make it last. So, if I want a Dorito chip. I have one or two.. On my pureed phase, my kids had pretzels at a game. I took 2 small ones....I had a qtr of his hotdog meat.. The point is, if we can seriously lower the number of calories we eat (which, for me, they figured i was eating between 3500-4000 per day and needed to be at 2400 or so.. Now, with 1200, which believe me, with the sleeve is a mini feast, I will be eating half the amount and will lose a lot of weight. So, yes, build good eating habits and i'm working on good food choices that I can live with! Can I eat white bread. Damn right?should I// nO?? it's a waste of calories and spikes your sugar and appetite. But, I sure will if i want a hamburger or great sandwich. A month ago i would have had 2 cheeseburgers and 2 hotdogs at a bbq. .So, guess what, i'll lose weight. Can't make it a daily thing.. But, again, stop obsessing..

*Eating and drinking slowly eating- well, you don't HAVE to eat slowly, but as we have been told our whole lives, eat slowly so that when you are really full, you know it! Also, you need to see what your bod can tolerate and if you eat too quickly, you may not have realized you were about to puke. If you can tolerate it, you can eat and drink quicker than others, but not a good idea for reasons mentioned. so work on it, but don't obsess.. At the hospital, they told me I had to drink in in little tiny medical cups a few cc evry 20 min. I laughed, as Water went down easily in recovery even. ALL NURSES TOLD ME NO. When I saw my doc, i asked why I can't just drink as I can tolerate it at home and get my 64 oz is. HE said dont' chug, but do whatever you can do without discomfort. So, 8 oz bottle of water went down in 5 minutes... etc....

*Chewing your food- ALL true... We have that banana sized stomach.. So, the doughy breads, and stringy veggies and large pieces of non chewed enough food INDEED often get stuck! Not stuck like a lap band, but rather, they move toward the pyloric valve and are too big to pass through it, since there isn't as much acid, etc in your stomach and, well, the route to the valve is now MUCH shorter.. So, it sits in front of it and as soon as the next item goes there, it waits in line. your body puts out gas and then knows there is a problem, so will signal you to vomit it up. not fun... So, chew! All true! Also makes us take longer to eat and thus enjoy the tastes more than ever and have the full signal sent to our brain while we are still eating or pretty close to that!

*Caffein is bad... Ok. Google whether it's an appetite suppressant or stimulant.. It's hysterical.. You'll get equal replies from GREAT sources that say the opposite. I WANT my one cup a day. I'm not an addict. I asked. I am now sipping on my first REAL one. It is indeed a diuretic for some. So, drink a half cup more water than a day! If you feel it makes you hungry after you have it and you don't want to hold back, then stop the coffee.. It doesn't for me. It does for some... But what will you be doing in a year from now??/ There is NO medical reason why you can't have caffein after a few weeks

*ALCOHOL is a no no for 2 months. NONSENSE.. Again, just there so we don't put empty calories. BUT what if I WANT one drink or two on a date tonight?? I am told, go for it, but just know you will have ingested 400 wasted calories. Ok. I get it, but I WILL drink in my life, although never drank a ton and that was not the cause of most of my weight.. Watch the calories and don't do it twice most weeks.. Or if you will, then cut back a bit on your Snacks, etc. Anyway, looking forward to a martini with my date tomorrow at dinner.. Oh, most people on here for a while, will tell you since there is less food to bind with alcohol, it goes into your intestines/blood stream much quicker and you get a nice buzz faster with less! way cool!

* Most other rules and comments on here are just not universal and again, if you feel the NEED to cheat, then well, cheat! How can it be cheating if this will be your new life! WOrk hard at right food choices and don't make this soooo hard. The harder you make it, the more YOU WILL revolt and end up going off the wagon like the good old days... Since I have had no pain, etc and pretty much eat what I wanted (and cheated on my puree period even), I feel this is just toooo easy. I hear so many of you struggling (not because you have pain, but because you want to break a rul) and so many of you "supporting them" to stay strong, that I just wanted to add this post! Also, again, much of the medical advice that our well meaning friends on here provide, just isn't true. Sorry, but it isnt.

I hope this helps some of you enjoy your Pre and Post diets much more than you may be now!

Best, my friends!

I enjoyed reading your post. I think I tend to believe the same. I'm 3 weeks post op

Tomorrow. I've been having major cravings and after my lunch- I went to get some frozen yogurt. No regrets- didn't sit the best in my yummy but not terrible. I,too, do not believing in depriving myself but also believe eat Protein first and then see how you're feeling. I did that an still wanted it so I got it.

Thank you again and congrats on your loss!

I think this is one of the most passive-aggressive posts I have seen here in a long time...I also find the confidence that you exhibit in that what you state is "correct" alarming.

It should be noted you addressed the rules with counter arguments no more supported than the original statement. You worded opinions as facts and suggested at evidence you did not support.

Mostly, so importantly, no - we aren't here because we broke rules or didn't succeed at a diet, you have to ask yourself how you got to your fatness (my word) and understand your habits and your triggers. This is not black and white, or even green-go red-stop as you suggest.

I wish you would re-read and re-think your post.

Just to add to your post, I think most of us got to the point of needing surgery because we CAN'T follow the rules!!!! At least that's been my experience.

To the OP: Most of us are food addicts - myself included. I think the "I can and should eat that because I want it and I deserve it" attitude is just setting yourself up for failure. Maybe not now, but down the road I think that's going to backfire on you.

Just my .02.

@sleevmaster. Sorry, I feel no aggression so apologize if it feels that way. It is my opinion! that's all. Will help those who feel the same way and we are all different. I do list sources. They are from my mom my brother, my brother's bariatric surgeon best friend and my surgeon and my nut.. Not trying to stir any pot, but I read a lot of the posts and too many people are really driving themselves nuts. Prob helps to know that some docs put you on foods on day 2, meaning, don't worry about cheating. .Many have written on here and agree. That's all. I'm a motivational speaker and trainer by trade, so that's probl where you are getting my confidence/perceived arrogance from :-)

Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and opinions. Take from it what you will read into it as you like. Always ask your doc and do what your doc ask of you to do. I enjoyed the read never once did I put it as the end all of facts. just something to read and maybe some things to ask my doc at the next ap.

I don't know if 15 months out qualifies as being a veteran, but I'll offer my opinion and hopefully won't be too long.

I totally agree with you for the most part ... but only after you have some time under your belt.

I got this surgery so I didn't have to diet anymore, and I don't. But I also knew my relationship with food was not healthy. I needed to change that, so I changed. But there are reasons why the "Rules" are there.

First off, this is not a one size fits all process. Not everyone comes out of surgery pain free. I'm a sweller. I swell up with any type of injury. Post-op, I couldn't swallow hardly any Water. It was an effort to squeeze down 20 oz of water a day. I have read some posts, like the OP, who could drink a glass of water immediately. Again, we are all not the same. There is no way on Earth I could have even dreamed of having tuna in any shape or form within two weeks post-op. Half a spoon of cottage cheese was painful at two weeks out. Being careful isn't so much about the pain either, I think. Is every surgeon going to sew a nice, straight, uninterrupted staple line? No, you are not going to break a staple, but what about putting some unnecessary pressure on a gap between staples that was part of a stop and re-positioning?

I don't know about y'all, but I couldn't really even tell when I was full for the first couple months. I didn't measure my food, but I knew that after a couple bites, I needed to stop whether it was due to hiccupping or feeling food coming back up.

So, why do the Drs give us the rules? They need to know what has been going on behind the scenes when you call them with an issue or complaint.

(patient one week out)

"Dr, my upper abdomen feels really warm and the skin is reddish. BTW, I had tuna on crackers last night."

(Dr)

"Well, you didn't follow the guidelines I gave you so, it could be dozens of things. Meet you at the ER."

Eating slowly ...

Hmmm ... go ahead. Don't follow this one. Inhale your food like you used to do. Just post your results here. BTW, good luck with that one. Since you've read all the post-op posts, you'll know what to expect.

Alchohol ... careful of cross addictions. Yes, it is very real.

All I know is I followed the rules and I am at goal. It worked for me. If y'all have read the post-op posts, you will see hundreds of posts complaining about not losing weight while admitting they don't eat the foods they are supposed to be eating.

So, go ahead. Don't follow the rules. But don't complain when you can't get to goal, either. You know why.

And that is fine, too. A lot of people get the sleeve to lose 75% of their excess weight and it works out great for them. It all depends on what your personal goals are.

My advice ... listen to your Dr and follow the rules as best you can.

Neil, I would like to agree with your sentiment about not obsessing, but I disagree with alot of your other assertions. There seems to be a theme to this thread that eating healthy equates to being "terrified of food". That's just not true. Some of us have turned a corner and decided that we want to be healthier individuals. The sleeve will make us lighter, not healthier. Eating less of the same junk that got us here will only make us slimmer unhealthy individuals. And yes, I do believe that eating junk is what got us here, not failing at diets. That was just a bump on the road to surgery. You would have never had those failed diets had you not made poor food decisions in the first place (and by "you" I mean all of us, of course...not singling you out).

And also let me say for the record, I am no veteran, but neither are you (now I mean you, Neil). You're feeling good right now because the sleeve will not allow you to eat much. Down the line that will change. For some the increase in hunger and appetite is drastic. If you continue to oblige your every whim and craving you may end up right back where you started if the restriction relaxes. There are plenty of people here with food addictions, and the advice you're giving them is incredibly irresponsible. It borders on enabling.

You obviously "know yourself"....but you don't know everyone else here.

Just my opinion.

@butterthebean Believe it or not, I sooo agree with all you write.. I know I'm a newbie FOR SURE! I know it sounds down right righteous to some. It wasn't my intention nor point. My theme was to indeed KNOW yourself and we are all different.. And soo many posts like licking the cheese off the dorito or chewing and spitting.. That sort of thing (ALOT OF IT ON HERE) is what I am referring to! I know I may have issues. When I do, I'll scale back! You are also so right about the food addictions, etc. My psych visit caught all of that (and the recent comments about alcohol and cross addictions). I know for ME, I have no alcohol addiction. Others need to be honest.. Re food addictions, yep, I think all of us have them.. My point wasn't to cave into whims. Junk food indeed got me here.. Or bad choices... I am working on changing that and only time will honestly tell. I don't think I'm enabling anyone, because my point was have the ONE dorito! but, if yuo are the type who can't handle that (only you know that), then don't do it! It works for me.. Same for the 2 pretzels. Etc. So, yes, I do agree with your points and that's why I love this forum!

Well, either way...thank you for spicing up this forum.

The only reason I say "enabling" is because I think there are some people waiting in the wings to hear someone tell them it's okay to eat whatever they want. They haven't tackled their food addictions and they are hoping for "permission" to go back to their old ways. I know there are some that can learn to eat "all things in moderation." I have no problem with that. For me, I chose to embrace my inner health nut. It's not fear or weakness or lack of self control...it's the desire to live a long, healthy and active life. I'm not depriving myself, or sacrifing. The things I'm doing and the life I'm leading now feel way better than eating pizza and cupcakes ever did (even in moderation). By that I mean that food did not give me pleasure (never did, I just thought it did), so I no longer look to food to satisfy my needs, except nutritionally.

@butter.. yep, Great point. So good, I put in my post for new readers to make sure they agree. I, of course, completely agree with your point and thus was remiss in being clear. Merci buckets

Similar to many others, I see this as an opportunity to completely change my eating habits. I deny myself certain foods that I might really enjoy - but for good reason. I try to consider how they affect my health and well-being and in what way they assist me in reaching my goal. And I don't mean my goal of weighing a precise number, I mean my goal of being fit and healthy.

I made very poor food choices in the past - that is how I gained a ton of weight and became diabetic. Sure, at this point I could have a few Doritos, or a little chocolate, but what about a year from now - how much more will I be able to eat then? I hope that establishing new and better habits now is what will set me up for long term success. I may not be perfect, but in my mind it is remiss to plan and intend on not creating the healthiest lifestyle possible during this time of incredible opportunity.

Whatever works for you, fantastic. But as you have acknowledged it is a bit early still, and who knows if this will actually work for you?

Neilsleeve, love your post!! I completely agree with what you wrote. I am two months post-op, and have had no problems since surgery. My surgeon and his partner started me on solids in the hospital......eggs for breakfast, hamburger for lunch. Of course, they said to test it out, see how it goes down, and if no problems, I was free to eat solids as tolerated immediately....proteins of course. I have done very well eating solids right away, and am down nearly 40 pounds. Both of these surgeons are very experienced bariatric surgeons. Anyway, just wanted to say, your post made me smile.....you pretty much wrote what my surgeon has been saying the whole time.

Enjoyed reading this!!

@everyone.. I added this for new readers to my opening: "This post is not intended to mean I am sure I will have a long term good go at this! It also doesn't address the future, but really ONLY the many threads that I have read regarding the preo op and post op liquid diets and the Pre and post few weeks Do's and Dont's! "

@newbie. WOW on the soiids in hosptial.. my surgeon did confirm that it won't cause leakage, etc even then, but only possible extreme discomfort, lol.. He does come from the school of theory that the sooner you get back on solids, the better your body responds, so interesting. Thanks for posting that.

Plenty of people have gotten very sick and ended up in the hospital from eating the wrong foods too quickly.

I'm glad that YOUR doc has laid out a plan that works well for YOU. However, attempting to debunk other members opinions (which they formed from their doc's), by simply offering a different opinion (based off of what your doc told you), really doesn't work. Until some long term studies have been completed, we are all really guessing.

Pick a doc you are comfortable with and follow their rules.

Sent from my mobile productivity killer.

@VST addict, yes plenty of people who ate too quickly had horrible gas or stuck and needed to get help.. Don't do that and that's why I said listen to your OWN stomach and body. ALSO, what you and the few critics on here of me don't seem to get is I am debunking not peoples own opinions about themselves, but rather those who GIVE THEIR opinions to others, telling them this is the right way.. I'm just saying that If you are on 3 weeks of liquids and want a bowl of soup and you can handle it, then stop listening to person A who tells you that it's a must, etc... The majority agree on here with me, but I enjoy a good debate.. Nowhere did i tell people to do what I am doing but to stop the "oh, man, can i have one pretzel". Or "Oh, I am soooo bad and feel so guilty. I cheated today and had half a piece of toast... ".. It's silly.. Read the title of the post.. it's about OBSESSING :-=)