Hi All,

I know this is a little (or a lot) out of the ordinary for this site, but you all have been a huge support on my WLS journey so far and, well, I need an outlet and some support. I'm not looking for advice or condemnation of my wife, just support and listening ears, and maybe a bridge if anyone on here has gone through something similar. It's a bit of a long story, so thanks for reading.

I met my wife in kindergarten - by the end of September, I'd already proposed. Curiously, she said no. I tried again in December, again, she said no. In all, I think I proposed to her 8 times before we had finished second grade, I asked her out throughout middle and high school, and then, during her senior year of college, after having been best friends for most of our lives, she finally said yes. My dreams came true.

Our marriage has been wonderful, she always has been and always will be my best friend. But sex was never particularly satisfying - I loved it, but knew she wasn't getting much out of it and wasn't attracted to me sexually. It was hard, but our relationship was well worth it. She wasn't gay, we thought, she may not have been attracted to me, but she wasn't attracted physically to anyone. Maybe she was asexual.

Two months ago, we decided together she should pursue counselling to help her work through her own sexuality, to help her know if she was asexual, or repressing her sexuality as the result of some childhood trauma that I won't get into, or something else altogether. We put all sex and physical intimacy on hold to give her the space to go through her process. It was hard, sex is very important to me, but worth it. I never really imagined that what happened last night would come.

Last night she said she wanted to give me an update on her process. "Smye," she said. "I wanted to let you know that in the last few weeks I've felt some stirrings of sexual attraction for the first time and it's scared me really badly. But it's absolutely been happening."

HELL YES, I thought. FINALLY!

Then came the bomb. "And I want you to know, Smye, it's only been towards women. I'm not going to put a label on it yet, I'd give anything to have attraction to you, and maybe I still will. But so far I'm only attracted to women."

S***, S***, S***. I love her, she's still my best friend. And I'm thankful as hell that there's no affair going on to deal with.

I wouldn't trade the 7 years we've had as man and wife so far for anything. And I know she still loves me as much as ever. But it hurts like hell, I don't have a clue what's next, but the research I've (perhaps foolishly done) suggests that only 1/6 of mixed-orientation marriages survive more than 2 years after disclosure. I don't want to lose my wife, I don't want to lose my best friend. But, even if magically she wakes up tomorrow and is attracted to me as the one man she finds attractive, the marriage I thought I had is dead. No matter what happens, I know I need to grieve that.

And I've reached out to the straight spouse network. But while I'm waiting to hear back, having no clue what's next or how I'll even survive the next 10 minutes, I know I need to tell someone and come out of my own closet, so to speak. Has anyone else here been through something similar? Or do you have words of support? I do NOT want "it's god's will" or "it'll be okay" or "it all happens for a reason" etc, nor condemnation of my wife, my marriage, etc. I trust her implicitly, know that this blindsided her as much as it did me, and know too that our marriage was/is based on an incredible friendship that still exists. So don't go hating.

Neither do I want advice. I don't have a clue what it is I'm asking for exactly, but I hurt like hell, I'm terrified, and I know I ought to reach out to keep myself sane. Thanks!

EDIT - PLEASE READ BEFORE REPLYING:

To everyone, thank you again for your support! This is still very much a work in progress and I will be keeping everyone here up to date - for my own therapy if nothing else. A quick note though before lending me your love and support (unless you just want to say 'I hear you, I love you, here are some digital hugs, and take care/let us know if you need anything' - then go for it.)

I HIGHLY recommend you read the entire thread before posting yourself, I know how therapeutic this has been for me. I've received several PM's from folks about how your responses have helped them and/or given them grace for a loved one they didn't previously understand and even one from a person who is considering whether or not to come out to his/her partner him/her-self. And there's also the selfish reason I'd like you to read it all first - the few responses I've gotten that have felt more hateful towards Mrs. Smye and, despite the authors' intentions, hateful towards me and my choices as a result could, I think, have been prevented had the author had the entire up-to-date picture.

Edited August 26, 201510 yr by Smye

I too am surprised your therapist is having you date right now. I "fell victim" to seeing someone who was "out there " at his therapist's urging. It was an epic waste of about 3-4 months of my time and that guy was in no way ready for a relationship but he also didn't want to casually date. I think it is not quite right to date when you are still entangled in a previous relationship. ..I think if nothing else should fully disclose to women on okcupid.

Therapists advise married people to date? Really? That is messy as hell.

I would really focus on myself not dating. You are still on an important personal health journey. Focus on that and the right partner will come when the time is right.

@@gowalking - thank you for your frankness. And no longer heading in that direction. On the bright side, the woman I disappointed is interested in being pen-pal friends when/if I'm ready for even that. Phew.

@@CowgirlJane - I'm so sorry that happened to you. And you're absolutely right - I would never, ever contact someone with romantic intentions without full disclosure. When contacting this gal, my first message was the following:

"

• Hi XXXXXXX,
  
  I'm in a bit of a unusual situation, but you seem like we might be a good match.
  My wife and I have been best friends since we were 5, we married 7 years ago. However, she recently discovered she is gay. It explains a whole lot of the challenges we've had in our relationship, but I have to admit, it totally rocked my world. That said, we intend to stay good friends and to fully coparent our 2 year old son together, but are both beginning to explore other relationships. We do NOT have and are not interested in an open marriage, we are looking for our next 'forever partners.' Reading through your profile, you seem like we might be compatible. I don't have a profile photo at the moment out of respect for Mrs. Harra's privacy - she has yet to come out to family and friends but I'm happy to email you a photo or post for a minute and then remove if we happen to be online at the same time if you like.
  A little about myself, should you be willing to connect given my rather unusual baggage (though it's entirely amicable): I am a high school principal, I love my son with all my heart, in my free time I socialize with friends, raise 80% of my own food, and binge-watch the X-files. I LOVE a good book, hiking in the woods around my house or swimming in our lake. I am not looking for 'hookups' and have never actually dated anyone, I just married my best friend, so I'm certainly nervous to be starting down this road, but I'm excited about being in a relationship with someone who is as attracted to me as I am to her and willing to accept that my soon-to-be ex-wife is still a part of my family.
  If you're willing to explore whether or not we'd be a good match, please let me know. If not, no worries, but I'll admit that confirmation of that would be great. I'm willing to be vulnerable, but, as Brene Brown would say, that includes asking for a 'no' if I'm not an option for you at all.
  Take care,
  Smye"

  It was intended to be a 'try one just to have done it' which now feels admittedly crass

  @@OutsideMatchInside, Yep and yep

Think about the kind of woman willing to entertain a married man in any kind of way (she has no idea if you are telling the truth about your wife, married men tell worse lies), and then think about if that is really the kind of person you would want to associate with.

@@gowalking - thank you for your frankness. And no longer heading in that direction. On the bright side, the woman I disappointed is interested in being pen-pal friends when/if I'm ready for even that. Phew.

@@CowgirlJane - I'm so sorry that happened to you. And you're absolutely right - I would never, ever contact someone with romantic intentions without full disclosure. When contacting this gal, my first message was the following:

"

• Hi XXXXXXX,

  I'm in a bit of a unusual situation, but you seem like we might be a good match.

  My wife and I have been best friends since we were 5, we married 7 years ago. However, she recently discovered she is gay. It explains a whole lot of the challenges we've had in our relationship, but I have to admit, it totally rocked my world. That said, we intend to stay good friends and to fully coparent our 2 year old son together, but are both beginning to explore other relationships. We do NOT have and are not interested in an open marriage, we are looking for our next 'forever partners.' Reading through your profile, you seem like we might be compatible. I don't have a profile photo at the moment out of respect for Mrs. Harra's privacy - she has yet to come out to family and friends but I'm happy to email you a photo or post for a minute and then remove if we happen to be online at the same time if you like.

  A little about myself, should you be willing to connect given my rather unusual baggage (though it's entirely amicable): I am a high school principal, I love my son with all my heart, in my free time I socialize with friends, raise 80% of my own food, and binge-watch the X-files. I LOVE a good book, hiking in the woods around my house or swimming in our lake. I am not looking for 'hookups' and have never actually dated anyone, I just married my best friend, so I'm certainly nervous to be starting down this road, but I'm excited about being in a relationship with someone who is as attracted to me as I am to her and willing to accept that my soon-to-be ex-wife is still a part of my family.

  If you're willing to explore whether or not we'd be a good match, please let me know. If not, no worries, but I'll admit that confirmation of that would be great. I'm willing to be vulnerable, but, as Brene Brown would say, that includes asking for a 'no' if I'm not an option for you at all.

  Take care,

  Smye"

  It was intended to be a 'try one just to have done it' which now feels admittedly crass

  @@OutsideMatchInside, Yep and yep

You had me at X-Files ????????????

I think that is a really nice letter and full disclosure. . You are a good man!

I think that if we all step back we would reach the same conclusion you did...way too soon!

My ex is a wonderful man in any ways but we didn't have a physical relationship the last 5-6 years of our relationship. I surely missed it so I understand the desire to seek that intimacy. I think it is crazy talk to go from your situation (love of your life turns out to be gay!) to seeking a life partner. How about a bit of time....then dating...then maybe life partner?

FWIW I think you are awesome. ..I just think we all need time to get over this type of thing....

@@OutsideMatchInside, great question!

@@jess9395, HA! If only you were between the ages of 25 and 35, willing to relocate to the PNW, single, and eager to wait from 1-90 months for me to get my stuff together?

@@CowgirlJane Thank you, and agreed on all counts. Thanks so much for your support. And by the by, I'm absolutely going square dancing in the next few weeks, as soon as Mrs. Smye is free to watch the little one.

Oh, and I've gotten a few PM requests to share the 'it's over' message. After thinking about it, I think it would indeed be therapeutic to post rather than PM back, so here it is:

"Hi XXXX,

Sorry this has taken me so long to get to you - I want to make sure I get it right and, if I'm totally honest, I don't want to send it. Please do me the favor of reading to the end.

Remember my comments about always striving to be transparent and live with authenticity? This is one of those times when it sucks, a lot.

Let me begin by saying that, if you can trust this, at no point was I false, did I lie, or attempt to conceal anything from you. I like you a lot and have come to care for you a great deal. I really want to date you, to give a relationship with you a try and see where it goes. But I realized this afternoon that I don't think I'm ready like I thought I was.

I've meant every word I've said to you, and I still do, but when I imagined our date, for real, suddenly I felt wrong... Nothing about you, just about me.

I feel awful, but I wanted to be entirely up front with you.

And to top it off, there's that little voice screaming "you idiot! What are you doing? You've had huge gaps in your needs from the day you got married, they've only grown over the years, and now you don't even get a goodnight peck from your wife. Why are you throwing away the closest immediate chance you've got to getting to kiss, cuddle, love and be loved?" But I think if that's the reason I'm pursuing a relationship, because I'm terrified of continuing not to have those things, that's the wrong reason to enter a relationship. That isn't remotely the entirety of why I wanted to date you, like I said, you're funny, kind, intelligent, strong, beautiful, and someone I genuinely enjoy. But I'm not certain I'm in a place yet where I wouldn't be motivated, from time to time at least, more by simply the desire to be loved than by my future love for you, and that's not fair to either of us. I've clearly got quite a bit of work left to do before I start pursuing another partner.

I'm so sorry XXXX, I'm letting you know as soon as I realized it (well, within a few hours anyway), but despite my best intentions, this is in no way fair to you. What a way to start your vacation. I'm glad you've got support people close at hand.

Take care,

Smye"

And after rereading that - wow that reads melodramatic, but there it is.

@@Smye

I respect you so much as a person who is so transparent and real. Wow, just wanted you to know how incredible you are. You will certainly find the happiness you deserve when the timing is right.

@@Joz31, thank you. Your support means more to me than you can know. And, on a completely different note - congratulations on your weight loss so far!

I thought you all might appreciate this. I'm at the point where I'm beginning to explore the possibility of feeling attracted to other people beyond Mrs. Smye and allowing myself to appreciate that fact. So far, there have been 3 women where I've though "wow, she's lovely, intelligent, attractive, pretty cool, etc." And I just got confirmation that the third (after earlier learning of both 1 and 2) is a lesbian. I feel like I'm cursed here.

Maybe you are rushing things a bit too much. This all just happened. ..seems like a little time to adjust is in order.

@@CowgirlJane, not quite sure I understand your meaning - can you clarify? I'm not remotely pursuing these, or any other, women at this point. Just allowing myself to see and appreciate attractiveness - none of the three have a clue (all are from television, not folks I know) nor have I allowed myself to think 'wow, she's very attractive' with others prior to now. I suppose you could say I've got a developing sexuality of my own and felt frustrated that the first three women I felt attraction towards are gay.

Edited October 10, 201510 yr by Smye

Perhaps you have a certain type or look you are attracted to. Unless you have sought them out for a date or whatever, I wouldn't let it bother you.

@@Chrystee, I won't, and I didn't. It's just frustrating in an "I'll look back on this in 5 years and laugh" sort of way.

Mrs. Smye came out to her dad today - I'm so proud of her! He responded well for the most part, but I'll admit it was also incredibly hard because it made the 'real-ness' and finality of it all sink in just one layer deeper. I will say I was thoroughly impressed with her use of an FAQ to help her deal with having to answer all of the questions she didn't want to be asked and to encourage the questions she wished would be asked. I have included it below:

FAQs for Dad (and maybe Stepmom too)

Q: Why are you telling me this? Now?

A: I enjoy the authentic relationship I feel like we have built and I want to maintain that. I don’t want to live different lives around different people. Also, I could benefit from your support as Smye and I move forward in our process to consciously separate, and I don’t want to hide half of the story.

Q: Have you always “known” (experienced same-sex attraction)?

A: No. Until now, I have largely identified as asexual (someone who does not feel attraction toward either men or woman). It never occurred to me to wonder whether I was attracted to women; I simply knew I had never experienced attraction toward men.

Q: Is this a phase?

A: I’ve thought about this very seriously before sharing with you and hope you can trust that I am telling you something significant versus something that is a passing phase. Sexuality fluidity is often predicted by the intensity and frequency of attraction. Based on my current experiences, I don’t imagine I will later find men attractive (but it would certainly be more convenient if that ends up in my future!).

Q: How do you know for sure you are attracted to women?

A: How do you know for sure you are attracted to women?

Q: Are you attracted to women because you were abused as a child?

A: Correlation is not causation. Early childhood experiences shape sexuality (and the rest of ourselves) and there is no way to determine who I would have been attracted to without those early experiences. It is certainly a complicating factor. I always assumed I’d have challenges connecting with males based on my early childhood experiences so I never sought out other explanations. Regardless, I’ve done enough years of therapy to trust this isn’t something that needs to be “fixed.”

Q: Maybe you just haven’t found the right man?

A: I could say the same to you. J

I don’t think anyone is 100% gay or straight: research shows there are certain situations or contexts in which people will stray outside of strongly identified orientations. That said, I am not hoping to find “the right guy” any more than you are. There are plenty of women I am attracted to and accept that.

Q: Why are you making this choice?

A: This is not a choice I am making. In many ways, if I could choose to be straight I would as there are many benefits to being part of a dominant group and keeping your life status quo. I have worked very hard and sought much help to be attracted toward men without success.

Q: Does this mean you are going to turn “butch”?

A: No. I don’t really identify with terms like “butch” (or its opposite, “femme”). I consider myself feminine in appearance, analytical in mind, and loving at heart. Over time, my style may change, just as anyone’s does through different life phases. Someday I might try having shorter hair or wearing pants but that is less related to my sexuality and more about transitioning out of old habits.

Q: So what kind of person are you attracted to?

A: Women who are intelligent and kindhearted.

Q: Will you ever have a steady girlfriend or get remarried?

A: I hope to—at some point when I am ready and if I meet the right person.

Q: What about God? And the sanctity of marriage?

A: This is more a question for you to ask yourself. This part of who I am is not in conflict with any of my spiritual beliefs/practices. Of course, I hope you will find a way to reconcile your faith with this aspect of your daughter. If you can’t, I hope you can find enough space in yourself to hold two opposing things, and find a way to maintain your love for both.

Q: Are you still the same person you’ve always been?

A: Yes. J

Q: Did I do something wrong? Is that why you are like this?

A: No. This isn’t a case of right vs. wrong or something that should have been prevented. (If you want to go down that path though, you can think instead about what you can do “right” in this moment to support me…)

Q: Did you cheat on Smye?

A: No. We have been very open and supportive of one another and neither of us has done anything behind the others’ back.

Q: Is Smye okay?

A: My status as “asexual” had been a known factor in our marriage since its beginning so this was not a complete surprise to Smye. It was a joint decision when I decided to re-enter counseling to specifically work on this aspect of myself. He is getting the support that he needs and has been very supportive toward me. Still, this is very hard for Smye. Of course, he wishes the outcome were different if for no other reason than because he had hope for our future.

Q: Are you and Smye staying together?

A: No, not in the traditional sense. We have never had a true “full” marriage and we both deserve that. We have been living together platonically and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future—even as we separate some emotionally. He is committed to helping me become financially self-sufficient and we are both committed to an arrangement that is most supportive of Little Smye. We don’t know exactly what that will look like but trust we will figure it out in a loving way as time goes on.

Q: Does this mean Little Smye is more likely to be gay?

A: No. Whether he is raised by a set of same-sex, opposite-sex, or a combination of parents, his likelihood of identifying as something other than “straight” is about the same. (There is some evidence, however, that men with ASD are more likely to identify as gay or bisexual than men without ASD.)

Q: How will this impact your career?

A: I am not “out” at work (though a few close friends know) and do not anticipate I will be in the time that I remain there.

As I transition to a new career pathway, I do not imagine I will advertise my sexuality any more than I ever have—it simply is not relevant. (At no point in working with clients did I ever volunteer that I was asexual, or partnered—let alone the gender of my partner). I do plan on working/living in New Hometown and do not expect to keep this part of myself a “secret” from my community.

Questions you may not have, but I wish you would ask

Q: What do you identify as?

A: I hate labels because they can mean different things to different people and I want more control over how people perceive me. I do not identify as bisexual (attracted to men and women) or heterosexual (attracted to opposite sex). I would say “lesbian” (women attracted to women) is the closest label. When I talk with people I just say I’m “queer” (an umbrella term which loosely which is no longer considered derogatory).

Q: Who knows? What can I say? Who can I talk to?

A: Right now, I’ve shared with Smye and all of my close friends in addition to M and B. I have not shared with any other relatives, or most childhood friends from Hometown. So far everyone has been incredibly supportive and I am very grateful.

If you would like to talk with people, you are welcome to share with your friends and extended family. I would like to save T/A (and my mom + her family) for myself when I am ready. I ask that you get support and educate yourself about the myths around sexuality (so you do not perpetuate them/misrepresent me when talking with others) before you discuss this with other important people in our lives. (I know I have no control over that.)

When talking with people, I am fine if you use the term “lesbian” or “gay” (often used to describe men or women who are same-sex attracted) as these are the most descriptive/accurate labels. If you don’t want to share with other people that’s fine. This may change over time, and certainly will change if I become re-partnered.

Q: What support do you need?

A: I need you to be the same Dad you currently are to me—supportive, caring, and encouraging. I need you to respect my entire self (including this part of me). I need you to ask questions as they arise for you instead of making assumptions. I need you to find a primary place outside of myself to work out your disbelief, confusion, anger, disagreement or whatever other complicated feelings you may have. I need you to remember that although sexuality is an important part of any person, I am a multifaceted human being and I have not ceased to be a mom, a professional, a friend or a quasi-farmer. Mostly, I need you to stay present.

I also need you to remain open to my current relationship with Smye, without taking sides or criticizing (to me) our use of marriage for its companionship, financial stability and other logistical benefits.

Q: Is this process hard for you?

A: It is terrifying for me. Both because I don’t want to lose people I care about (which I know happens to folks) and because the idea of loving and being loved fully is a very vulnerable thing. In other ways, it is exciting and I couldn’t feel more at ease—it feels like coming home into myself.

Q: Wow, this is a lot to take in. Are there resources for me?

A: I would be thrilled if you went to a meeting with other parents and could learn/get support. Check out your nearest PFLAG (www.bfpflag.com or https://www.facebook.com/BFPFLAG/info/?ref=page_internal). I’m sure they could direct you to other resources.

Q: What do you need from me right now?

A: I need to know that you love and support me the same as you always have or that if you can’t/don’t that you’ll work to get there.