WARNING!!! Will Robinson--Danger! Danger! Run away! Rant ahead!

Ok guys, can we have a discussion--er, I mean a rant please? I just read an interesting article in BP Magazine: "The 5 Mindset Shifts You NEED To Make To Be Truly Happy After WLS". (click on link to read full article)

I will post the basic 5 tenets below, but the first one stands out to me. And I just really have a BIG issue with this philosophy. Because, WE (MO and formerly MO people) are NOT like the rest of the world...I'll explain more later. What am I missing?

I'll post the tenets first, then post my comments below.

1. My weight does not determine my success nor worth.

“If you accept your personal best at everything else in life, why not weight?” – Yoni Freedhoff

QUOTE-not mine: "Isn’t that SUCH a good quote?

Is your WLS team happy with your progress, but you aren’t? Why are you still pushing for and obsessing over those next 10 lbs? Reflect on why you feel that you must lose those extra pounds and what will happen if you don’t?"

2. I acknowledge that a healthy lifestyle (i.e. eating healthy most of the time and moving my body often) is a part-time job. Some weeks it doesn’t feel like work, but often it does.

3. I see meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking as acts of self-care.

4. I move my body because it feels good and helps me to re-charge. I don’t exercise to control my weight.

5. I am not on a diet. I eat foods that I enjoy. I practice moderation and flexible eating to the best of my ability.

My thought: Ok, so my biggest issue with this is the quote after the first point. No, your weight shouldn't determine your self-worth, but it DOES and SHOULD influence it somewhat. And the quote is just like saying...you've just rearranged your body. It's ok if you don't win at weight loss. You'll still get this lovely participation trophy. Well that's just nuckin' futs! I'm serious WHACKamole nuts!!! I'm sorry, there are no contradictions in life. If you find one, check the premise. That is what will be wrong. ~ Ayn Rand.

I did not alter my anatomy in such a drastic non-reversible manner to stop short of my goal by 10lbs. Or worse, to rationalize that it's OK to still be in the obese or overweight category after my honeymoon period ends. Fu*k no I didn't! I'm going balls to the wall, KISS stupid until I make goal. Then an only then will I modify my "diet" to a maintenance level diet. Right now, I'm in a take-no-prisoners-leave-no-man-behind weight loss mode and nobody better get in my way. (Oh I'm talking to you Little Debbie you pusher ho.) LOL.

So yeah, I don't get it. Fu*k my personal best. I'm a fatty. I have a FAT brain. I am addicted to food and LOVE it. I am a food seeker. That isn't magically gonna change after 55 years of programming. It's not gonna change even if I lose all my weight. I will still have a fat brain with billions of starvin' marvin' empty fat cells still secreting hormones urging me to feed greedy little empty Seymours. I will still have a hypothalamus that is programmed to jones for food hits. I will still have pleasure centers in my brain jonesing for that dopamine and serotonin fix it gets from food. And If I do change, it certainly won't happen within a short term period. I have to be de-programmed and re-programmed and that takes time, so much time, and repetition, and not quitting. And have you EVER tried to out match you lymbic system where the urge to eat lives? Some doc said, if you think you can beat it...try holding your breath and see how far that gets you. The hypothalamus beats all in the rock-scissors game of life.

So what I have to do in order to achieve success here is to realize that because of my MO and the reality that has set up biochemically in my body and my big FAT brain, I have to modify my thinking and behaviors for life in a way that no skinny person can even HOPE to understand. I have to work harder, try longer, be more determined, be more cunning. Of course it will ALWAYS be a diet. LOL. To believe that suddenly, because of a magic surgery whose effect "dim" a little after 2 years, you will SUDDENLY be able to tolerate life in moderation is like wishing on the tooth fairy. LOL. Just my opinion.

Ok, so sorry about the rant.

Do y'all have any thoughts on this???

Edited May 6, 20188 yr by FluffyChix

3 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

I did not alter my anatomy in such a drastic non-reversible manner to stop short of my goal by 10lbs. Or worse, to rationalize that it's OK to still be in the obese or overweight category after my honeymoon period ends. Fu*k no I didn't! I'm going balls to the wall, KISS stupid until I make goal. Then an only then will I modify my "diet" to a maintenance level diet. Right now, I'm in a take-no-prisoners-leave-no-man-behind weight loss mode and nobody better get in my way. (Oh I'm talking to you Little Debbie you pusher ho.) LOL.

But where did your goal weight come from? Is it realistic?

Speaking for myself, my goal weight of 140 is what I weighed in college. But nearly 20 years later that may not be realistic. I may get to 150, and be happy with how I feel and look. I may get to 150 and struggle hard to get down to 140. For me, personally, if I get to a healthy weight and and happy with how I look, there is no way I am going to fight everyday to get to and maintain some goal weight that is arbitrary.

3 minutes ago, sillykitty said:

But where did your goal weight come from? Is it realistic?

Speaking for myself, my goal weight of 140 is what I weighed in college. But nearly 20 years later that may not be realistic. I may get to 150, and be happy with how I feel and look. I may get to 150 and struggle hard to get down to 140. For me, personally, if I get to a healthy weight and and happy with how I look, there is no way I am going to fight everyday to get to and maintain some goal weight that is arbitrary.

Ok, this is a FABULOUS point!!

My goal of 150 is the weight I was in high school. And it's still in overweight territory at 5'4". I had my RD confirm my goal--even though hers is 160-170lbs for me. And she cautioned me not to get all het-up if I don't make my goal. :-/

The goal she determined from a formula is:

(Surgery Day Weight - Ideal Weight) x 60% for RNY surgery (or 65% for RNY if you really push it)=Projected Weight Loss Goal

So I'll use this as an example:

1. Ideal Weight in the US = 100lbs for the first 5 feet (for women) + 5 lbs for every additional inch over 5 feet

*Now, this in and of itself might hold the contradiction. Because this is old-school and taken from the old insurance tables, but never-the-less, it's what the RDs STILL to this mother truckin' day use to compute ideal weight in their formulas. :-/

So for me: I'm 5'4"

So Ideal Wt=100+20=120lbs (cuz 5x4=20)

2. My Weight Projection from the RD

222-120=102lbs of EBW (excess body weight)

102 x 60% = 61.2lbs

3. 222-61=161lbs at 60% loss (I'm just saying for the record right now...if I'm stuck at 161lbs at the end of my honeymoon period and cannot lose another ounce, then I might have to look at sacrificing small rodents or a live chicken. Something isn't going to end well. Just sayin'.

4. So to appease me, she ran the numbers at 65% too.

222-120=102lbs x 65%=66lbs EBW

222-66=156

Notes: So she is estimating I will fall between 156 and 161lbs. So my goal of 150lbs is not so unrealistic. I thought her % seemed low for RNY, but she said that's the percentage they use for that particular surgery. I thought RNY had a higher % of loss on average?

Idk how to feel about this, im a sleever so different game entirely, but i would be happy at my personal best if i could maintain it for life. I would happly settle in the overweight catagory and focus on other life goals. Im only willing to focus on this for about another year and then i need it to just be apart of my life, not the main event. I want the diet that im on now to be my lifestyle forever so i didnt give up things that will make it unsustainable but thats just me.

I dont have food addiction or anything like that and maybe the article was written by someone in the same boat as me who does not understand the struggle of a person with food addiction.

24 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

No, your weight shouldn't determine your self-worth, but it DOES and SHOULD influence it somewhat.

Doesn't for me. I feel exactly the same about myself as I did at 270. I like myself. I feel attractive. I have better than average self worth.

I will concede that I feel better about my health, however.

My health was a source of worry for myself and my family, and I'm happy to have taken action to correct it, and lessen the concern of those who love me. I also love being able to do more physical activities, get more projects done...I am enjoying being active:) I love that. So many things I've wanted to do....I can finally start doing. It's awesome:)

I understand what the person was saying in the article.

Every point they made......resonates with me as very true. To each, their own:)

I dunno...I don't obsess about this ****.

I like me. Whatever number the scale settles on is fine with me as long as my labs look good and I'm enjoying my life.

Real changes that matter MORE to me than the number on the scale:

1. Creating and maintaining a forever diet that I genuinely like. Foods that are delicious and make me feel healthy.

2. Keeping fit. Getting my 12,000 steps every day and my 3 cardio activities every week. Doing them because they're enjoyable and fun. Keeping flexible and working my back and core to stay back-pain free.

3. Cutting out behaviors and foods that sabotage my health. Getting rid of refined foods. Getting rid of most white flour and white sugar. Getting rid of high fat foods. Eating LOTS of fruits and veggies each day. Increasing plant protein in my diet. Picking smarter cleaner fats. Keeping protein super lean.

4. I refuse to starve anymore. Starving always leads back to weight gain. I want off that merry go round. When I'm hungry, I'm gonna eat. F*ck starving. I can eat and make good choices, now. I trust myself.

5. I'm done being in a hurry. I don't "Need" to be any particular weight by any particular moment in time. What I "Need" to do is eat responsibly, exercise responsibly, not obsess, and enjoy my life.....for the rest of my life.

6. I can and do eat treats in moderation. My diet allows 75 calories a day for sweets and naughty items. I can use them daily, or I can bank them all week for a special occasion. It's workable and I never feel deprived. Life in moderation is balanced. It's a forever diet I can live with.

7. Most of all...being happy and healthy matter. Scale numbers and clothes sizes can kiss my ass. That said, I'm looking damned fine in clothes these days and it's fun to shop:)

Meh...I liked the article. Rings true to me:)

Real food for thought (probably the only real food I'll be eating today).

Despite not being a religious person, the serenity prayer came to mind:

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference. "

You cannot change your brain (completely [yet]), and that's a struggle, but you definitely (should) have the courage to change, and the wisdom to know your limits. Surgery just modifies your anatomy. As effective as it is, it's still a crutch. It buys you time to develop habits, to rewire years of mistreatment of yourself to the point where you got yourself sick. And the sooner people see obesity as a sickness, the sooner people will stop that body acceptance BS that some people are perpetuating. Four words to remember: YOU. ARE. KILLLING. YOURSELF.

And any reasonably sane human, under the threat of imminent demise should instinctively jump on damage control mode. It's basic survival instinct. And after being aware of it, like any self preserving ecosystem should purge itself of the problem as efficiently as possible.

So accept something that's sub par? Hell no. Would you drive with a flat tire? Would you jump of a plane with a faulty parachute? From the moment you take the decision to undergo surgery it's to solve the problem. And that's the only mindset that should prevail. Of course you can falter or even fail, and in that case is back to the drawing board until you get where you need to go. Falling is acceptable, standing up is indispensable.

TL;DR: Hell no.

@FluffyChixI love you and want to have your babies! This is a GREAT post.

Back to your original post (and tucking in mind that we each work to set a reasonable goal) I agree. I didn’t make myself look like a walking cadaver of scars across the surgeries so that I could be content with whatever outcome I get. Cos if I accept that, well that piece of chocolate caramel slice will NEVER stop yelling “close enough is good enough”.

My surgeon says we should average loss of 75% of excess weight, by the way, not 60/65. He has a longitudinal study of 1700 of his patients going back up to 18 years. 75% is the average. So shoot for the moon fashizzle, shoot for the moon...

I am over the 75% now (it is taken from highest weight - 260 for me). I aim to end up in the ‘normal’ bmi range. I look pretty normal now and have 14lbs to go - I am in normal off the rack clothes now. My goal is probably gonna be 2-3 lbs below that so I have ‘fluctuation room’. And if I keep eating like I do, and losing 2 lbs every week like I am, I am nearly there, and I am bloody well not stopping or moving to maintenance until I do.....

Edited May 6, 20188 yr by Biddy zz

Just now, Biddy zz said:

@FluffyChixI love you and want to have your babies! This is a GREAT post.

Back to your original post (and tucking in mind that we each work to set a reasonable goal) I agree. I didn’t make myself look like a walking cadaver of scars across the surgeries so that I could be content with whatever outcome I get. Cos if I accept that, well that piece of chocolate caramel slice will NEVER stop yelling “close enough is good enough”.

My surgeon says we should average loss of 75% of excess weight, by the way, not 60/65. He has a longitudinal study of 1700 of his patients going back up to 18 years. 75% is the average. So shoot for the moon fashizzle, shoot for the moon...

I am over the 75% now (it is taken from highest weight - 260 for me). I aim to end up in the ‘normal’bmi range. I look pretty normal now and have 14lbs to go - off the rack clothes. My goal is probably gonna be 2-3 lbs below that so I have ‘fluctuation room’. And if I keep eating like I do, and losing 2 lbs every week like I am, I am nearly there, and I am bloody well not stopping or moving to maintenance until I do.....

Let's go girl. You be hotttt!!! And Mr. F. Might like havin' two of us in the hizzouse!

44 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

WARNING!!! Will Robinson--Danger! Danger! Run away! Rant ahead!

Ok guys, can we have a discussion--er, I mean a rant please? I just read an interesting article in BP Magazine: "The 5 Mindset Shifts You NEED To Make To Be Truly Happy After WLS". (click on link to read full article)

I will post the basic 5 tenets below, but the first one stands out to me. And I just really have a BIG issue with this philosophy. Because, WE (MO and formerly MO people) are NOT like the rest of the world...I'll explain more later. What am I missing?

I'll post the tenets first, then post my comments below.

1. My weight does not determine my success nor worth.

“If you accept your personal best at everything else in life, why not weight?” – Yoni Freedhoff

QUOTE-not mine: "Isn’t that SUCH a good quote?

Is your WLS team happy with your progress, but you aren’t? Why are you still pushing for and obsessing over those next 10 lbs? Reflect on why you feel that you must lose those extra pounds and what will happen if you don’t?"

2. I acknowledge that a healthy lifestyle (i.e. eating healthy most of the time and moving my body often) is a part-time job. Some weeks it doesn’t feel like work, but often it does.

3. I see meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking as acts of self-care.

4. I move my body because it feels good and helps me to re-charge. I don’t exercise to control my weight.

5. I am not on a diet. I eat foods that I enjoy. I practice moderation and flexible eating to the best of my ability.

My thought: Ok, so my biggest issue with this is the quote after the first point. No, your weight shouldn't determine your self-worth, but it DOES and SHOULD influence it somewhat. And the quote is just like saying...you've just rearranged your body. It's ok if you don't win at weight loss. You'll still get this lovely participation trophy. Well that's just nuckin' futs! I'm serious WHACKamole nuts!!! I'm sorry, there are no contradictions in life. If you find one, check the premise. That is what will be wrong. ~ Ayn Rand.

I did not alter my anatomy in such a drastic non-reversible manner to stop short of my goal by 10lbs. Or worse, to rationalize that it's OK to still be in the obese or overweight category after my honeymoon period ends. Fu*k no I didn't! I'm going balls to the wall, KISS stupid until I make goal. Then an only then will I modify my "diet" to a maintenance level diet. Right now, I'm in a take-no-prisoners-leave-no-man-behind weight loss mode and nobody better get in my way. (Oh I'm talking to you Little Debbie you pusher ho.) LOL.

So yeah, I don't get it. Fu*k my personal best. I'm a fatty. I have a FAT brain. I am addicted to food and LOVE it. I am a food seeker. That isn't magically gonna change after 55 years of programming. It's not gonna change even if I lose all my weight. I will still have a fat brain with billions of starvin' marvin' empty fat cells still secreting hormones urging me to feed greedy little empty Seymours. I will still have a hypothalamus that is programmed to jones for food hits. I will still have pleasure centers in my brain jonesing for that dopamine and serotonin fix it gets from food. And If I do change, it certainly won't happen within a short term period. I have to be de-programmed and re-programmed and that takes time, so much time, and repetition, and not quitting. And have you EVER tried to out match you lymbic system where the urge to eat lives? Some doc said, if you think you can beat it...try holding your breath and see how far that gets you. The hypothalamus beats all in the rock-scissors game of life.

So what I have to do in order to achieve success here is to realize that because of my MO and the reality that has set up biochemically in my body and my big FAT brain, I have to modify my thinking and behaviors for life in a way that no skinny person can even HOPE to understand. I have to work harder, try longer, be more determined, be more cunning. Of course it will ALWAYS be a diet. LOL. To believe that suddenly, because of a magic surgery whose effect "dim" a little after 2 years, you will SUDDENLY be able to tolerate life in moderation is like wishing on the tooth fairy. LOL. Just my opinion.

Ok, so sorry about the rant.

Do y'all have any thoughts on this???

@FluffyChix

Is it accepting your best shot? Is it accepting if you don't make goal?

The goal is healthy. That will look different for each of us.

I don't want to overlook people that may have more things to battle and overcome. I am sympathetic to anyone that doesn't make goal or gain weight. (medical issues, mobility, eating disorder, medications etc.) It can take a toll on you mentally.

I'm like you, I didn't have surgery to settle. I fought to get the most out of it. My personal choice was not to be a bariatric statistic. Made goal in six months.

Side note - I love all the research, chart's formulas etc. There is a fine line between useful charting and obsessive compulsive lol I have to be careful, I have an addictive personality and fear of weight gain.

24 minutes ago, Tealael said:

Idk how to feel about this, im a sleever so different game entirely, but i would be happy at my personal best if i could maintain it for life. I would happly settle in the overweight catagory and focus on other life goals. Im only willing to focus on this for about another year and then i need it to just be apart of my life, not the main event. I want the diet that im on now to be my lifestyle forever so i didnt give up things that will make it unsustainable but thats just me.

I dont have food addiction or anything like that and maybe the article was written by someone in the same boat as me who does not understand the struggle of a person with food addiction.

Ok, so I'm seriously interested. I'm not trying to be mean or accusatory. I'm SERIOUSLY interested in your history.

Did you have some metabolic event or genetic disease such as lipomatosis that got you a ticket to the MO Obesity Ball?

If you TRULY do not have any food addictions or anything like that, and don't have any medical reason, how do you suppose you got to weigh 249lbs at 5'3"? How long were you in this category?

For me, I was obese from childhood. ITP and steroids until 11 set me up with a lovely parting gift of PCOS that dogged me for life along with genetic predisposition to it, AND a lifetime of "food issues," over eating, comfort eating, eating cuz I had cravings, self indulgence, self abuse, depression, etc, etc, etc. I could not will power or white knuckle diet myself to goal ever. I'd get within 20lbs and decide I "felt good enough" and was "happy enough with my new size" and so I rationalized the crap outta going the distance. But I'm not gonna do it this time. Fu*k settling. Sideways. Real hard. Cuz no matter how dedicated and focused I need to be, I will get there. There is no quitting this time.

6 minutes ago, jenn1 said:

@FluffyChix

Is it accepting your best shot? Is it accepting if you don't make goal?

The goal is healthy. That will look different for each of us.

I don't want to overlook people that may have more things to battle and overcome. I am sympathetic to anyone that doesn't make goal or gain weight. (medical issues, mobility, eating disorder, medications etc.) It can take a toll on you mentally.

I'm like you, I didn't have surgery to settle. I fought to get the most out of it. My personal choice was not to be a bariatric statistic. Made goal in six months.

Side note - I love all the research, chart's formulas etc. There is a fine line between useful charting and obsessive compulsive lol I have to be careful, I have an addictive personality and fear of weight gain.

GREAT point girl! Very very great points!

I've met people that don't have food addictions. One said he just didn't care about nutrition or his weight. Living life on the run and quick fast food..Everything took its toll over the years. Had to get things right for health reasons.

15 minutes ago, jenn1 said:

@FluffyChix

Is it accepting your best shot? Is it accepting if you don't make goal?

The goal is healthy. That will look different for each of us.

I don't want to overlook people that may have more things to battle and overcome. I am sympathetic to anyone that doesn't make goal or gain weight. (medical issues, mobility, eating disorder, medications etc.) It can take a toll on you mentally.

I'm like you, I didn't have surgery to settle. I fought to get the most out of it. My personal choice was not to be a bariatric statistic. Made goal in six months.

Side note - I love all the research, chart's formulas etc. There is a fine line between useful charting and obsessive compulsive lol I have to be careful, I have an addictive personality and fear of weight gain.

Jenn, did you lose all 115# in 6 months? It drives me a little nuts trying to assess the possibilities and expected rate of losses when there is no surgery weight in our profiles. /vent over, LOL

10 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

Ok, so I'm seriously interested. I'm not trying to be mean or accusatory. I'm SERIOUSLY interested in your history.

Did you have some metabolic event or genetic disease such as lipomatosis that got you a ticket to the MO Obesity Ball?

If you TRULY do not have any food addictions or anything like that, and don't have any medical reason, how do you suppose you got to weigh 249lbs at 5'3"? How long were you in this category?

For me, I was obese from childhood. ITP and steroids until 11 set me up with a lovely parting gift of PCOS that dogged me for life along with genetic predisposition to it, AND a lifetime of "food issues," over eating, comfort eating, eating cuz I had cravings, self indulgence, self abuse, depression, etc, etc, etc. I could not will power or white knuckle diet myself to goal ever. I'd get within 20lbs and decide I "felt good enough" and was "happy enough with my new size" and so I rationalized the crap outta going the distance. But I'm not gonna do it this time. Fu*k settling. Sideways. Real hard. Cuz no matter how dedicated and focused I need to be, I will get there. There is no quitting this time.

My weight gain came from pregnancy.

Looking back i now understand that I knew how to maintain a weight but not lose weight.

Over decades, small mistakes and over-indulgences, stressful jobs, medical conditions and medication can take your weight up pretty steadily. It did for me -- starting after my first baby was born 25 years ago. I weighed about 150 when I got pregs, so over 25 years I gained a mere 3# a year on average. Pregnancies, menopause, hypothyroidism, depression -- it all adds up!

Just now, Tealael said:

My weight gain came from pregnancy.

Looking back i now understand that I knew how to maintain a weight but not lose weight.

Ok. Got it! That makes sense. So did you gain pregnancy weight and were never able to lose it and it compounded? Or did you have one and gain excessively? What caused you to gain weight with pregnancy? Were you hungrier? Did you eat anything you wanted? Did you fall into the myth of eating for two? Just curious. Cuz that's absolutely something I can see happening. And goes to the "two types of people in the world thing" from Dr. Vuong. Those who've been obese since childhood and have NEVER known what it feels like to be and live at normal weight (ahem, me... ) and those who have adult or sudden adult onset obesity. The two different types MUST take completely different paths re: weight loss/maintenance.