WARNING!!! Will Robinson--Danger! Danger! Run away! Rant ahead!

Ok guys, can we have a discussion--er, I mean a rant please? I just read an interesting article in BP Magazine: "The 5 Mindset Shifts You NEED To Make To Be Truly Happy After WLS". (click on link to read full article)

I will post the basic 5 tenets below, but the first one stands out to me. And I just really have a BIG issue with this philosophy. Because, WE (MO and formerly MO people) are NOT like the rest of the world...I'll explain more later. What am I missing?

I'll post the tenets first, then post my comments below.

1. My weight does not determine my success nor worth.

“If you accept your personal best at everything else in life, why not weight?” – Yoni Freedhoff

QUOTE-not mine: "Isn’t that SUCH a good quote?

Is your WLS team happy with your progress, but you aren’t? Why are you still pushing for and obsessing over those next 10 lbs? Reflect on why you feel that you must lose those extra pounds and what will happen if you don’t?"

2. I acknowledge that a healthy lifestyle (i.e. eating healthy most of the time and moving my body often) is a part-time job. Some weeks it doesn’t feel like work, but often it does.

3. I see meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking as acts of self-care.

4. I move my body because it feels good and helps me to re-charge. I don’t exercise to control my weight.

5. I am not on a diet. I eat foods that I enjoy. I practice moderation and flexible eating to the best of my ability.

My thought: Ok, so my biggest issue with this is the quote after the first point. No, your weight shouldn't determine your self-worth, but it DOES and SHOULD influence it somewhat. And the quote is just like saying...you've just rearranged your body. It's ok if you don't win at weight loss. You'll still get this lovely participation trophy. Well that's just nuckin' futs! I'm serious WHACKamole nuts!!! I'm sorry, there are no contradictions in life. If you find one, check the premise. That is what will be wrong. ~ Ayn Rand.

I did not alter my anatomy in such a drastic non-reversible manner to stop short of my goal by 10lbs. Or worse, to rationalize that it's OK to still be in the obese or overweight category after my honeymoon period ends. Fu*k no I didn't! I'm going balls to the wall, KISS stupid until I make goal. Then an only then will I modify my "diet" to a maintenance level diet. Right now, I'm in a take-no-prisoners-leave-no-man-behind weight loss mode and nobody better get in my way. (Oh I'm talking to you Little Debbie you pusher ho.) LOL.

So yeah, I don't get it. Fu*k my personal best. I'm a fatty. I have a FAT brain. I am addicted to food and LOVE it. I am a food seeker. That isn't magically gonna change after 55 years of programming. It's not gonna change even if I lose all my weight. I will still have a fat brain with billions of starvin' marvin' empty fat cells still secreting hormones urging me to feed greedy little empty Seymours. I will still have a hypothalamus that is programmed to jones for food hits. I will still have pleasure centers in my brain jonesing for that dopamine and serotonin fix it gets from food. And If I do change, it certainly won't happen within a short term period. I have to be de-programmed and re-programmed and that takes time, so much time, and repetition, and not quitting. And have you EVER tried to out match you lymbic system where the urge to eat lives? Some doc said, if you think you can beat it...try holding your breath and see how far that gets you. The hypothalamus beats all in the rock-scissors game of life.

So what I have to do in order to achieve success here is to realize that because of my MO and the reality that has set up biochemically in my body and my big FAT brain, I have to modify my thinking and behaviors for life in a way that no skinny person can even HOPE to understand. I have to work harder, try longer, be more determined, be more cunning. Of course it will ALWAYS be a diet. LOL. To believe that suddenly, because of a magic surgery whose effect "dim" a little after 2 years, you will SUDDENLY be able to tolerate life in moderation is like wishing on the tooth fairy. LOL. Just my opinion.

Ok, so sorry about the rant.

Do y'all have any thoughts on this???

Edited May 6, 20188 yr by FluffyChix

4 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

But if a goal is to get to the "healthy" range and there is a 5-10lb difference between the goal an RD sets for you and the goal you have--why wouldn't you shoot for the fences?

Because you might need to invest a lot of energy into these last few lbs instead of using that energy for other goals in life. I'm thinking about this 80% 20% rule of thumb here.

If you don't need to invest a lot of energy into the lower weight goal it will come anyway. No need to stop weight loss on purpose! But I think one has to look careful at things when "these last few lbs" would require a lot of investment in time and energy.

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If you find yourself stalled 20lbs short of your RDs goal and you KNOW you're not eating to your full capability and you've allowed "treats" to be come daily things or even at every meal...do you just sit back and lie to yourself?

Yes, I would sit back if the cost/benefit ratio wouldn't seem to be in my favor. However, this is a general attitude of mine. The cost/benefit ratio has to be in my favor, e. g. I wouldn't take on a job I don't like just to make more money. Of course more money would be fine but I make decent money to afford the little luxuries of everyday life and having a job I like surrounded by people I like in general is more important to me than making more money.

IMO this doesn't have something to do with not telling myself the truth though. On the contrary I think analyzing your situation on a cost/benefit is far from lying to yourself.

"Little treats" are part of fun in life, whether these little treats are food, buying a book without thinking about the bucks you're spending on it, treating yourself to your favorite video stream without fretting about the monthly fee or sitting on your porch on a mild summer evening instead of doing the laundry.

9 minutes ago, summerset said:

Because you might need to invest a lot of energy into these last few lbs instead of using that energy for other goals in life. I'm thinking about this 80% 20% rule of thumb here.

If you don't need to invest a lot of energy into the lower weight goal it will come anyway. No need to stop weight loss on purpose! But I think one has to look careful at things when "these last few lbs" would require a lot of investment in time and energy.

Yes, I would sit back if the cost/benefit ratio wouldn't seem to be in my favor. However, this is a general attitude of mine. The cost/benefit ratio has to be in my favor, e. g. I wouldn't take on a job I don't like just to make more money. Of course more money would be fine but I make decent money to afford the little luxuries of everyday life and having a job I like surrounded by people I like in general is more important to me than making more money.

IMO this doesn't have something to do with not telling myself the truth though. On the contrary I think analyzing your situation on a cost/benefit is far from lying to yourself.

"Little treats" are part of fun in life, whether these little treats are food, buying a book without thinking about the bucks you're spending on it, treating yourself to your favorite video stream without fretting about the monthly fee or sitting on your porch on a mild summer evening instead of doing the laundry.

Nice reply!

So then here's the next question:

If you have spent a lifetime of weighing the risk/benes and have chose the "easy" path that causes you little pain, little inconvenience, and little stress and it ended up landing you here at the obesity ball weighing 287 or 325 lbs...then don't you think there is something wrong with your choices? Didn't Einstein say that's the measure of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting a different outcome?

Cuz honestly, that IS what has happened to me over the years. I have gained and lost since I was a child. The first times, the regains were only within 25lbs of goal. But EVERY time, I would stop 20-30lbs short of my goal--cuz things got hard and I had to put real focused effort on the goal. And I chose to be swayed by the pizza, the beer, the ice cream. I felt good about myself. (or better) Felt comfy in clothes. Grew complacent. And BLAM!!!!

Within weeks or months ALL the weight would be back + 10-15% more of its leetle frien's! LOL. And I yo-yo'd my complacent self up to 325lbs. And while doing that I supremely forked my metabolism. And don't say that doesn't happen here after WLS. Cuz it does. We see it all the time. And all it takes to be a success in WLS is to have LESS THAN a 50% regain at 5 years. But hell! Half of us will be back in either the obese or MO category again if we allow ourselves to regain 50% of our weight that we lost from WLS. I think the number is that as many as 50-85% regain >85% of maybe it's only 80-20. Can't remember...

1 hour ago, FluffyChix said:

If you have spent a lifetime of weighing the risk/benes and have chose the "easy" path that causes you little pain, little inconvenience, and little stress and it ended up landing you here at the obesity ball weighing 287 or 325 lbs...

I'm not sure if there might be a misunderstanding here?

Cost/benefit calculation is not about short term inconvenience (at least not for me) or choosing always the easiest paths. On the contrary you might e. g. invest a lot of time and energy or money to pass certain exams or get special education etc. because you see a long term cost/benefit calculation that seems to be very attractive to you and your goals in life.

Your cost/benefit calculations might vary a great deal from mine which will maybe vary a great deal from that of other people. Cost/benefit is different for everyone because people have very different goals in life.

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Didn't Einstein say that's the measure of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting a different outcome?

This is why I sometimes have to shake my head in disbelief because a lot of people still hold this weird opinion that only a 100% success is a "real" success. They know how it feels to completely run yourself down into the ground with these so-called "healthy and sensible choices" 100% of the time and still they do the same after WLS, all the while expecting a different outcome this time.

12 minutes ago, summerset said:

I'm not sure if there might be a misunderstanding here?

Cost/benefit calculation is not about short term inconvenience (at least not for me) or choosing always the easiest paths. On the contrary you might e. g. invest a lot of time and energy or money to pass certain exams or get special education etc. because you see a long term cost/benefit calculation that seems to be very attractive to you and your goals in life.

Your cost/benefit calculations might vary a great deal from mine which will maybe vary a great deal from that of other people. Cost/benefit is different for everyone because people have very different goals in life.

This is why I sometimes have to shake my head in disbelief because a lot of people still hold this weird opinion that only a 100% success is a "real" success. They know how it feels to completely run yourself down into the ground with these so-called "healthy and sensible choices" 100% of the time and still they do the same after WLS, all the while expecting a different outcome this time.

Of course it's about long term goals, but we are all too often derailed and side-lined by transient pleasure or "treats" that can lead us down the primrose lined path toward rationalization.

And I ABSOLUTELY see your point. And validate it. It's right for you. I get ya. I support you.

So I just question why it isn't ok and my right to have my point of view and do me, too? Cuz for me, right now...I'm going for the prize. Once I get there, I might decide it's a giant PIA and like the Wizard of Oz, is all smoke and mirrors and no substance. Then I will reserve the right to change my mind. But if I've never seen that goal? How do I know it's not worth attaining? I want to see it just once in order to make an informed decision. I think all of us, ought to give it a hard thought. Cuz don't we all deserve to make a truly informed opinion? And I think to do that, if we choose that road less traveled by, we can't mentally and emotionally let ourselves off the accountability hook by saying, "Ohhhh don't worry, you'll still get a participation trophy even if you are still MO."

And I can guarantee there will never be another time QUITE like the first time surgery to get you as far as you can humanly go towards realizing that goal. It will never be "easier" and by easy I in no way infer that this is the "easy" path. But for me, after my RNY surgery, weight loss has never been easier than it is right now in my virgin honeymoon period. And it's still a fargin' corkhole, ice-suckin' bastage lol. All 2-3lbs per week on average. And sometimes 0.6lbs per week. LOL.

Edited May 11, 20188 yr by FluffyChix

7 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

But if I've never seen that goal? How do I know it's not worth attaining?

If this BMI of 24.9 is the goal of your life right now and you're willing to put boatloads of effort into it (maybe you're lucky and you don't even have to ) then by all means do it.

In the end I (or any other user on this board) couldn't care less. It's your choice and the people that feel the impact of your choices are you and the people close to you, not some random board user.

20 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

It will never be "easier" and by easy I in no way infer that this is the "easy" path. But for me, after my RNY surgery, weight loss has never been easier than it is right now in my virgin honeymoon period.

Yeah, come on say it!!!! The weight loss does come easier than ever! (not sure why some people seem to have such a hard time to admit it)

True dat. Lucky for me I got up this morning and made the committed decision not to let my self-worth be determined by how much people give a flying crap about my decisions on goal--or indeed, on anything I post here.

Edited May 11, 20188 yr by FluffyChix

3 minutes ago, summerset said:

Yeah, come on say it!!!! The weight loss does come easier than ever! (not sure why some people seem to have such a hard time to admit it)

I think I missed something in our debate. This IS the absolute easiest time (honeymoon period) that I will ever experience. And it's still fu*king nightmare hard. *snort*

(And btw, am enjoying our socratic discussion. )

Edited May 11, 20188 yr by FluffyChix

I've said what I have to say now though, lol.

16 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

Nice reply!

So then here's the next question:

If you have spent a lifetime of weighing the risk/benes and have chose the "easy" path that causes you little pain, little inconvenience, and little stress and it ended up landing you here at the obesity ball weighing 287 or 325 lbs...then don't you think there is something wrong with your choices? Didn't Einstein say that's the measure of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting a different outcome?

Cuz honestly, that IS what has happened to me over the years. I have gained and lost since I was a child. The first times, the regains were only within 25lbs of goal. But EVERY time, I would stop 20-30lbs short of my goal--cuz things got hard and I had to put real focused effort on the goal. And I chose to be swayed by the pizza, the beer, the ice cream. I felt good about myself. (or better) Felt comfy in clothes. Grew complacent. And BLAM!!!!

Within weeks or months ALL the weight would be back + 10-15% more of its leetle frien's! LOL. And I yo-yo'd my complacent self up to 325lbs. And while doing that I supremely forked my metabolism. And don't say that doesn't happen here after WLS. Cuz it does. We see it all the time. And all it takes to be a success in WLS is to have LESS THAN a 50% regain at 5 years. But hell! Half of us will be back in either the obese or MO category again if we allow ourselves to regain 50% of our weight that we lost from WLS. I think the number is that as many as 50-85% regain >85% of maybe it's only 80-20. Can't remember...

It occurs to me that I didn't make myself clear here. The underline bolded red part was NOT referencing the surgery. It was referencing me ALWAYS choosing the pleasure of the moment when faced with cravings and short term desires over the pain of keeping my focus on the long term benefits of reaching goal and maintaining my weight.

Although my RNY surgery was uncomplicated and recovery was relatively easy, this IS the easiest weight loss of my life and by "easiest" I mean that the weight is coming off like a so called "normal" person's weight rather than only 2lbs per month--which for all the effort was always discouraging. But losing weight through WLS is far from EASY. LOL. Actually, this past year has been one of the hardest years of my life second only to fighting breast cancer. Yep. It's FAR from the easy path or easy choice.

This path takes DAILY concentration on eating healthy, small portions, and keeping ridiculously low cals. It's taken daily exercise. It takes me fighting inner demons and working on my mental game. It's taken building new relationships with food. It's been HOURS of exhaustive research and reading. And in other words it's taken me being 100% all-in. And I feel like that will become my new normal for the future. But in saying that, I should mention it's also been one of the most joy-filled years too. I'm SOOO much happier now.

I just wanted to clarify that I would NEVER EVER categorize WLS as taking the "easy way out."

The End.

Edited May 12, 20188 yr by FluffyChix

I really thought I could just bite my tongue on this thread and let it go. God knows I've tried.

But I'm gonna open my mouth again...LOL. *sigh*

About 80% of us...will lose about half (or a little more than half) of our excess weight and keep it off for five years. If we do this in the bariatric surgery world....we are considered successful.

A very small percentage of us will lose over 80% of their excess body weight. And an even smaller number will hit goal.

About 20% of us....one in five people on here....won't even lose 50% of our excess weight. We will "fail"

This is just factual.

"Should we accept our best shot and not be bothered if we don't make goal?"

Yes...because accepting reality is important and healthy.

If we are doing our best...that's really all we can do.

Our best...by definition...is our best.

There are plenty of people who do their absolute best and want it so badly they'd sell a kidney for it......who never make goal.

But the vast majority of us significantly improve and the improvements last. And that's huge. And worth celebrating. Perfection be damned.

Obesity is complex and people are affected by surgery in vastly different ways. People's individual physiology, heredity, health, natural set point, chronic conditions, necessary medications, hormones, and a dozen other factors play a part in how successful they are.

A few of us WILL be wildly successful. (lookin at Jenn, jess, mike, etc....lol)

MOST of us will land on one side or the other of losing 60% of our excess weight.

And a few of us won't ever lose 50% of our excess weight...even if we try very hard.

I'm not suggesting that there is no room for improvement. Or that we shouldn't try, accept help, keep trying hard to optimize our results.

I'm just sayin....the facts are what they are. Reality is part of the equation. No amount of "not accepting less" can help in some cases. Sometimes you're dealt the cards you're dealt.

I'm not pissing on anyone's hopes and dreams or disrespecting their input by pointing to these statistical facts and ask that everyone's experience be respected.

I genuinely hope that every person here makes the goals they wish... and has lasting results.

But in the much more likely eventuality that we end up being a wide spectrum of successes....I think it's important to honor all outcomes,

Edited May 12, 20188 yr by Creekimp13

Reading about bariatric surgery on the net.....reminds me a lot of reading about homeschool on the net. There are a lot of parallels.

Both are often considered extreme solutions that are not widely accepted by the people who could utilize them. Proponents tend to be very polarized in their views. Critics, too. There's a lot of ignorance in public perception, and a lot that could be done to help demystify the process....but people tend to be kinda closeted about what they're doing.....particularly people who have a more moderate experience and are not balls to the wall aggressive about pursing their goals.

Most of the people who are making a lot of noise in both communities...are having a lot of success and it's working for them. They are also very driven to particular lofty goals. (think...the homeschool parents who MUST send their kid to an Ivy League school)

People who are having more moderate success...tend to be quieter, and disappear from communities shortly after they arrive. Their stories are not as big a part of the public discussion. And it's a shame....because those voices represent far more people than the louder folks who push themselves to extremes. It's sad because it creates insanely unrealistic and competitive standards and less room for honesty, vulnerability and support. Do I blame them for leaving? Nope.

(and incidentally, I know I've done very well statistically so far...and I know I've been enthusiastic and loud about it...I'm not innocent of the very thing I'm complaining about...I'm just trying to become more aware)

I think we can do better to honor the experiences of all involved....and help create a more realistic, inclusive, WHOLE picture of the process and various results of all community members.

Voices that embrace balance, moderation and acceptance of multiple different approaches and success levels....get silenced in favor of sports metaphors, "winners", "what works the fastest" and obsessive perfectionism. This concerns me on a lot of levels.

At least there are no kids involved here.

Edited May 12, 20188 yr by Creekimp13

True unless we count the "fat little boy that got chose last, the fat little girl who couldn't get into the exclusive clique, tried and didn't make cheerleader, majorette or flag corps, the ones that remember childhood as a series of taunts, one after another, in that case, yes there are children here, that are not as easily seen.?????

Heartfelt point, Frustr8.

So@creekimp13 I totally get what you are saying.

Question—what do you think about people who set their goal at numbers that are still obese? I just bristle when they say they know they will look sickly at a normal BMI when they’ve never been at a normal BMI as an adult.