WARNING!!! Will Robinson--Danger! Danger! Run away! Rant ahead!

Ok guys, can we have a discussion--er, I mean a rant please? I just read an interesting article in BP Magazine: "The 5 Mindset Shifts You NEED To Make To Be Truly Happy After WLS". (click on link to read full article)

I will post the basic 5 tenets below, but the first one stands out to me. And I just really have a BIG issue with this philosophy. Because, WE (MO and formerly MO people) are NOT like the rest of the world...I'll explain more later. What am I missing?

I'll post the tenets first, then post my comments below.

1. My weight does not determine my success nor worth.

“If you accept your personal best at everything else in life, why not weight?” – Yoni Freedhoff

QUOTE-not mine: "Isn’t that SUCH a good quote?

Is your WLS team happy with your progress, but you aren’t? Why are you still pushing for and obsessing over those next 10 lbs? Reflect on why you feel that you must lose those extra pounds and what will happen if you don’t?"

2. I acknowledge that a healthy lifestyle (i.e. eating healthy most of the time and moving my body often) is a part-time job. Some weeks it doesn’t feel like work, but often it does.

3. I see meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking as acts of self-care.

4. I move my body because it feels good and helps me to re-charge. I don’t exercise to control my weight.

5. I am not on a diet. I eat foods that I enjoy. I practice moderation and flexible eating to the best of my ability.

My thought: Ok, so my biggest issue with this is the quote after the first point. No, your weight shouldn't determine your self-worth, but it DOES and SHOULD influence it somewhat. And the quote is just like saying...you've just rearranged your body. It's ok if you don't win at weight loss. You'll still get this lovely participation trophy. Well that's just nuckin' futs! I'm serious WHACKamole nuts!!! I'm sorry, there are no contradictions in life. If you find one, check the premise. That is what will be wrong. ~ Ayn Rand.

I did not alter my anatomy in such a drastic non-reversible manner to stop short of my goal by 10lbs. Or worse, to rationalize that it's OK to still be in the obese or overweight category after my honeymoon period ends. Fu*k no I didn't! I'm going balls to the wall, KISS stupid until I make goal. Then an only then will I modify my "diet" to a maintenance level diet. Right now, I'm in a take-no-prisoners-leave-no-man-behind weight loss mode and nobody better get in my way. (Oh I'm talking to you Little Debbie you pusher ho.) LOL.

So yeah, I don't get it. Fu*k my personal best. I'm a fatty. I have a FAT brain. I am addicted to food and LOVE it. I am a food seeker. That isn't magically gonna change after 55 years of programming. It's not gonna change even if I lose all my weight. I will still have a fat brain with billions of starvin' marvin' empty fat cells still secreting hormones urging me to feed greedy little empty Seymours. I will still have a hypothalamus that is programmed to jones for food hits. I will still have pleasure centers in my brain jonesing for that dopamine and serotonin fix it gets from food. And If I do change, it certainly won't happen within a short term period. I have to be de-programmed and re-programmed and that takes time, so much time, and repetition, and not quitting. And have you EVER tried to out match you lymbic system where the urge to eat lives? Some doc said, if you think you can beat it...try holding your breath and see how far that gets you. The hypothalamus beats all in the rock-scissors game of life.

So what I have to do in order to achieve success here is to realize that because of my MO and the reality that has set up biochemically in my body and my big FAT brain, I have to modify my thinking and behaviors for life in a way that no skinny person can even HOPE to understand. I have to work harder, try longer, be more determined, be more cunning. Of course it will ALWAYS be a diet. LOL. To believe that suddenly, because of a magic surgery whose effect "dim" a little after 2 years, you will SUDDENLY be able to tolerate life in moderation is like wishing on the tooth fairy. LOL. Just my opinion.

Ok, so sorry about the rant.

Do y'all have any thoughts on this???

Edited May 6, 20188 yr by FluffyChix

6 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

Ok, so of course Creek will deny this. But, this thread began in the "RANTS" section because the original article struck a nerve for me, PERSONALLY. It never began nor was it intended to be an US against THEM. It was only EVER a

ME against MY INNER LITTLE DEBBIE LOVIN' FAT BRAIN.

The. End.

I invited discussion about it, because I respect quite a good many of you and learn so much from hearing other peoples' viewpoints. They do OFTEN stretch and challenge my own viewpoints.

But instead, what has happened, is that Creek chose very early in the thread to make this an us v. them discussion. And she has continued to cast aspersions and make personal attacks. And although she's a very clever p/a debator--some might even call her a master at this, the thinly veiled insults ARE recognized by me.

So yes, I am the one she is insulting as being loud, aggressive, elitist, failing to have empathy for my fellow WL bros and sis's, obsessive perfectionism, balls to the wall, etc. I could go on and on cuz she seems to delight on following into my threads to discredit and demean my own personal nutritional position with her far superior "balance" approach and has insulted me in those threads as well. So it's something of a pattern I fully recognize and expect. I'm ok with that cuz luckily I do not define my sense of self by her lack of regard of my personality.

But I have always made it very clear, that my views and my plan are just that. MY plan and views. I do not expect others to follow me. I don't believe mine is the only path.

But I am so tired of her BS. So she will limit and still my voice here, cuz I have other fish to fry. And I can be quite happy in my own little progress thread. Cuz God and baby Jesus know, I do not want to cause anyone not to participate here with my loud obnoxious over-achieving self. (her description--not mine).

My apology for going off topic - Your post gave me many things to think about. I'm not trying to hijack your original question.

I hope people take what is useful from other WLS patients experiences. I agree, Set are own bars! Walk your own walk in WLS. Never do as others do. Quoting a movie I watched last night "look at all the lives being lived" Each of our experiences are unique.

50 minutes ago, jenn1 said:

My apology for going off topic - Your post gave me many things to think about. I'm not trying to hijack your original question.

I hope people take what is useful from other WLS patients experiences. I agree, Set are own bars! Walk your own walk in WLS. Never do as others do. Quoting a movie I watched last night "look at all the lives being lived" Each of our experiences are unique.

YOU did nothing wrong. You did nothing I haven't done a billion times. You shared your POV. I ALWAYS welcome that! You did not set up the us v. them. Creek did that basically with her very first post on this thread...and I politely did not call her out on it then, nor any of the other times she has personally slammed me using her p/a thinly veiled insults cloaked within pseudo-affirmations that she gives in her so - supercilious tone.

This will be my last post on this thread and will be what I intend to be FAR FEWER posts in future to the main boards.

Edited May 13, 20188 yr by FluffyChix

Technically, by BMI standard, my goal weight is still obese. But my fat percentage will be within normal range because BMI is a very flawed measurement. Arnold Schwarzenegger had an obese BMI when he won Mr. Universe because the BMI scale doesn't take into account different body types or muscle bulk.
I have been 170 pounds before, and was in athletic shape doing huntseat riding competitions. I love how I look and feel at 170 and my doctor agrees with my goal. In fact, my doctor's goal is 172-178 for me based on metabolic testing and water scale measurement of my actual fat percentage.
But even just randomly...
"what do you think about people who set their goal at numbers that are still obese?"
I think it's none of my fecking business. Or anyone else's....except perhaps their doctor.

I guess what I bristle at is the idea that they believe they will “look sickly” at a normal/healthy weight. First how do they know if they’ve never been. Second why are they basing it on looks rather than health. Third when they claim that weighing more than I do at my height will look “sickly” I admit I feel like that’s judgemental—skinny bashing if you will.

Your method of determining your goal is great. Yes BMI is flawed. But I find those who arbitrarily pick a goal that is still obese strange. I’m all for accepting your best. I didn’t set a goal. I just think when people say a particular weight that is still obese is “sickly” looking... well I think that’s a sign of our society as a whole becoming too overweight and healthy weights becoming rare. I don’t like it.

Technically, by BMI standard, my goal weight is still obese. But my fat percentage will be within normal range because BMI is a very flawed measurement. Arnold Schwarzenegger had an obese BMI when he won Mr. Universe because the BMI scale doesn't take into account different body types or muscle bulk.
I have been 170 pounds before, and was in athletic shape doing huntseat riding competitions. I love how I look and feel at 170 and my doctor agrees with my goal. In fact, my doctor's goal is 172-178 for me based on metabolic testing and water scale measurement of my actual fat percentage.
But even just randomly...
"what do you think about people who set their goal at numbers that are still obese?"
I think it's none of my fecking business. Or anyone else's....except perhaps their doctor.

I guess it’s the judgement that bristles me—I don’t care what their goal is either. Saying “I would look sickly at 160” when they’ve never been 160 and that happens to be more than what I weight at the same height... well I guess I should take that personally but heck we’ve all been fat shamed I get sensitive to the opposite now.

Try to see the positive. At least the boards are not plastered with motivational pictures - yet.

They are! They are the before and after threads. They were a wonderful motivation for me pre op and while I lost weight. And I revisit them now!

You know, I understand the idea of... "We should be able to say things that could possibly upset others" as long as we're polite about it. And we should.
I'm just suggesting that we can be enthusiastic and loud about our own success without criticizing the experiences of others.
If it's about you, make it about you. Give us some good news. Be inspiring. Don't piss on others. There is nothing to be gained by it.

Ah now see that’s exactly what I’m saying too... the “I would never want to get too thin, I would look sickly at 160” is pissing on others too. Don’t piss on those of us busting our butts to get lower! I’ve never busted anyone’s butt who stays higher. In fact I often talk about “health pounds” versus “vanity pounds.”

21 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

But instead, what has happened, is that Creek chose very early in the thread to make this an us v. them discussion. And she has continued to cast aspersions and make personal attacks. And although she's a very clever p/a debator--some might even call her a master at this, the thinly veiled insults ARE recognized by me.

So yes, I am the one she is insulting as being loud, aggressive, elitist, failing to have empathy for my fellow WL bros and sis's, obsessive perfectionism, balls to the wall, etc. I could go on and on cuz she seems to delight on following into my threads to discredit and demean my own personal nutritional position with her far superior "balance" approach and has insulted me in those threads as well. So it's something of a pattern I fully recognize and expect. I'm ok with that cuz luckily I do not define my sense of self by her lack of regard of my personality.

But I have always made it very clear, that my views and my plan are just that. MY plan and views. I do not expect others to follow me. I don't believe mine is the only path.

@FluffyChix I understand you feel Creek has unfairly attacked you, but have you read and considered some of the things she has said?

You say that "I don't believe mine is the only path", but that is exactly how you come across to me. You often start your replies to posts with positive affirmations, to then only undercut them.

In this thread alone, I said I didn't have a food addiction, and explained how I got to my surgery weight, and you questioned me on if I was sure I don't have food issues. I said one of the appealing thing about surgery is being satisfied with smaller portions, and you questioned my moderation approach.

In another thread I was saying one of the reasons I loved my sleeve is the restriction it gives and even when I give into cravings (semi healthy mac & cheese, not a quart of ice cream). You replied I was playing with fire and I would be back in 2-3 years asking for help after a 60 lb regain

The thing is, we are all going through this process of WLS together. Your surgery date was a week after mine.

You and I have taken different paths as far as diet goes. Only time will tell if one of us will be more successful than the other. But in your replies to me and others it is clear to me that you see yours as the only valid path to long term success.

What rubs me the wrong way is that neither of us can be sure that we will get to goal weight, that we can maintain goal weight long term. If this was a vet with long term success giving advice, that would be one thing, but we are both finding our way right now.

To me, you seem to believe your experience thus far outweighs mine, and you even doubt my own self awareness about why I am obese and what dietary path I believe will work for me, despite the fact I've explained my reasoning.

I think it is great that you have found a diet plan that works for you, and wish you all the success in the world with it. But can you accept there are different paths to success, and even different definitions of success?

Right on sister, I feel the same way, I'll make my goal come hell or high water! My brain has been in fat mode for 40 years, that isn't going to fix itself, I know I have to kick some ass and there is plenty to kick. Keep on keepin on you have a great attitude and damn your almost there

Well this thread certainly struck a collective nerve! No big surprise -- this is, after all, a life changing experience for all of us. I agree generally that most people are technically doing their best, but "best" is highly subjective and variable. Why not celebrate people going balls to the wall? After all, it is indisputable that there is a window for losing weight.

10 hours ago, jess9395 said:

Ah now see that’s exactly what I’m saying too... the “I would never want to get too thin, I would look sickly at 160” is pissing on others too. Don’t piss on those of us busting our butts to get lower! I’ve never busted anyone’s butt who stays higher. In fact I often talk about “health pounds” versus “vanity pounds.”

@jess9393 and participants

I see how both sides can be passionate about weight prejudice.

Each of us are explaining that we been judged on where we fall on the weight loss spectrum. It drives me crazy that many of the negative comments are from the bariatric community.

these make me cringe when I hear them:

• Morbidly obese comments: "your lazy"" Fatty"""Lack discipline"" you have such a pretty face" "you would look better if you lost weight"
• Healthy weight comments - " I don't want to look sickly as you"" you didn't have to work as hard at wls as I did" "you over do working out"
• Not being at a lower BMI "you settled for less" "you need to work harder at this""why did you even have surgery"
• Wow, The new one I'm hearing --The fitness people are" obsessive", "extreme" "think we should do as they do" and wtf "They are making people leave"

We live in a judgmental society...

All I can do is me--->I am supportive and see value of any experience on the forum. I learn from all of you everyday.

*laughing * Dang I'm off topic again - We are flawed humans no one is better than anyone.

Patients are in different stages and time out from surgery. You may see some of these same trends in the room.

The mine is the only path:

You may get some people that truly believe there way is the only way. Me...I would send them a link to the success stories on the forum. All that needs to be said is "look at all the successes on different plans" I simply Ignore the rest of their post and move on.

This may be someone new that has their instructions and did not know how different our plans can look. They may believe you are off plan. Give them time to learn.

My plan is working so well..It's life changing you gotta try this!

The honeymoon phase people (I love to feel their excitement and enthusiasm) It may come off in their posts as mine is the only path. a bit gradious at times...Let them enjoy the high!

The fitness person: Overly excited, never believed this would be their life...Me I'm on a running high ..Don't kill my buzz. lol

3 hours ago, sillykitty said:

@FluffyChix I understand you feel Creek has unfairly attacked you, but have you read and considered some of the things she has said?

You say that "I don't believe mine is the only path", but that is exactly how you come across to me. You often start your replies to posts with positive affirmations, to then only undercut them.

In this thread alone, I said I didn't have a food addiction, and explained how I got to my surgery weight, and you questioned me on if I was sure I don't have food issues. I said one of the appealing thing about surgery is being satisfied with smaller portions, and you questioned my moderation approach.

In another thread I was saying one of the reasons I loved my sleeve is the restriction it gives and even when I give into cravings (semi healthy mac & cheese, not a quart of ice cream). You replied I was playing with fire and I would be back in 2-3 years asking for help after a 60 lb regain

The thing is, we are all going through this process of WLS together. Your surgery date was a week after mine.

You and I have taken different paths as far as diet goes. Only time will tell if one of us will be more successful than the other. But in your replies to me and others it is clear to me that you see yours as the only valid path to long term success.

What rubs me the wrong way is that neither of us can be sure that we will get to goal weight, that we can maintain goal weight long term. If this was a vet with long term success giving advice, that would be one thing, but we are both finding our way right now.

To me, you seem to believe your experience thus far outweighs mine, and you even doubt my own self awareness about why I am obese and what dietary path I believe will work for me, despite the fact I've explained my reasoning.

I think it is great that you have found a diet plan that works for you, and wish you all the success in the world with it. But can you accept there are different paths to success, and even different definitions of success?

I can't believe I read through 7 pages of comments. But sillykitty, yours was the one that resonated. I think you hit the nail on the head with how you think you come across, but how you really do come across. I think Fluffy has good intentions, hence the "You often start your replies to posts with positive affirmations, to then only undercut them." but then she gets ahead of herself. Her and Creek are both very passionate about this process. And thank goodness for that, we don't have a lot of regulars on here that make a point to respond to EVERY post. Who are the back bones and are always there in some capacity.

I do have to say, I read through this without knowing what it was going to end like... and I don't believe @Creekimp13 attacked anyone. I read a lot of opinions from a lot of people. End story.

My opinion on the goals. I think that we all set out to make a positive healthy change in life. It would be wonderful to be apart of the 80% excess weight loss, but 60% is healthier than where I started. Will I be disappointed in myself if I don't reach my "goal", perhaps, but then I'll have a husband, a mother, a sister, who will make me fill the cart at the grocery store with 90lbs worth of ground beef. And I'll no longer be disappointed.