I know this was mentioned before here in the Vegans/Vegetarians forums and I wanted to maybe start this thread for all things pertaining to the book that Dr. Garth Davis authored, Proteinaholic. So far I'm on chapter 6 of it and I'm just amazed with how sound it is and all the studies that are out there to support why we don't need such a high amount of protein, and why it's a culprit of obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.... There's just so much to talk about if anyone wants to get into discussion. Now, this thread IS NOT going to be for debate. I do not want anyone coming on here advocating high protein and what they "know" and debating with any of us who are or evolving into plant based, vegans or vegetarians. I want to share the things I've learned from the book and if anyone wants to challenge those, READ THE BOOK FIRST, and then you can come and talk about it. If you don't or haven't read the book, feel free to read the things that will be posted...and do your own homework to find these facts/truths out for yourself. I literally don't have time to do a protein ping pong match...so don't start one. You will be ignored.

Okay, with that said and out of the way, the first thing I want to mention is that Dr. Davis actually dispels the myths about protein and why our bodies don't need so much. It is not an opinionated book, it's a science/fact book. It makes TOTAL sense. He is quite comical too. The parts where he plays out his doctor/patient dialogues hit me the most...because I can relate to how I was educated about protein being what we all need. I had the same mentalities as he did regarding it, but after I started watching documentaries on plant based diets for the past couple of years, I've slowly become open to all the health benefits of eating plant based. But now, even though I knew plant based is great for the health, I didn't know that the protein component was/is what was causing so many problems in my health, my husband's, etc. Now, I've got science and truth to understand the premise of protein. The history of why, what Dr Davis talks about, we western society pick apart whole foods and live based off of macronutrients. Now, it just boggles me why we do that. The other thing that rings true and is nice knowing, is that he is a bariatric surgeon too. He knows what he's coaching/telling his patients. He knows that he was not a nutritionist, didn't know a single thing, but the one hour of nutrition studies in his school days, but he took the time to dive into history, studies, reports, etc to bring light to why western society is so unhealthy, and most of it is based on animal protein.

Wow.

Read the book!

27 minutes ago, Newme17 said:

Yes I agree. Good cholesterol has gotten a bad rap, just like carbohydrates have gotten a bad rap. We need these both, just the good ones. ?

The thing I worry about is how many WLS patients are on low carb high protein diets, and are eating tiny amounts of fruits and vegetables, not to mention whole grains. Supplements can only provide the elements. but not the fiber and antioxidants of the whole plant. What consequences will this have for their long term health?

3 hours ago, Apple1 said:

not the Fiber and antioxidants of the whole plant. What consequences will this have for their long term health?

I think of this often too....and often think of the long term effects...wls or not, not getting the fiber and antioxidant nutrition from plants is a recipe for some problems internally down the road...just my take on it and a lot of science behind it.

Edited September 22, 20178 yr by Newme17

I buy the fiber and add it to my shakes or things I make.

Sent from my SM-G955U using BariatricPal mobile app

I am SusanG81

Sent from my SM-G955U using BariatricPal mobile app

A big thank you to Dr Weiner for dispeling the myths about WLS. Especially the last one. It was good to watch and get refreshed and be more motivated to keep doing what I'm doing, wfpb. Here's the video if you would like to watch/learn.

A cup of uncooked oats has 10g protein (makes more than a cup prepared).
2 cups of beans has 32g protein
1 oz nuts has 8g protein
I probably can squeeze that much food in... maybe...
But, honestly, I was hoping to get some nice veggies on board...
The thing is, that my hubby (normal sized stomach) can eat 2 cups of beans and a cup of spinach at once for dinner. No problemo. That's 35 grams of protein in one meal. He can eat all those oats for breakfast, plus an ounce of nuts in it.. that's another 17g. One more ounce of nuts for a snack and he has met his goal for the day. Lunch can be protein-free veggies and fruits.
But for me, it'll take 2 meals to eat the beans, and another 2 meals to eat the oatmeal. That's 4 meals, and I've only gotten in beans and oats, and possibly an ounce of nuts!!
Us bariatric folk HAVE to have more concentrated sources of protein. (And I can't do shakes).

But NO ONE, bariatric or regular stomach, needs 80 grams of protein a day. Even the nutrition standard of x grams per kilogram/pound of body weight is too much. Cavemen didn’t eat meat 3 times a day, 7 days a week, so Paleo is way off, too.

I’m averaging 40ish grams a day on a mostly vegan WFPB diet. Most mornings I have plant protein powder in my coffee, which could be up to 20 grams right there.

I’m not struggling to get protein-dense foods in, so I can eat what makes me feel good. I have an egg several times a week, and cheese a few times too. Otherwise, protein is coming from soy, legumes, and other plant based foods. Boca Burger- 10 to 15 grams right there! A spoonful of nut butter- 7ish grams.

So, my long-winded point is that Americans are eating way too much protein. There is no single right amount that applies to everyone, but it’s certainly not 80+ grams as prescribed by my surgeon and dietician.

5 minutes ago, smooshycheeks said:

So, my long-winded point is that Americans are eating way too much protein. There is no single right amount that applies to everyone, but it’s certainly not 80+ grams as prescribed by my surgeon and dietician.

That's the point of many well respected doctors and wls surgeons as well. Western diets are having WAY too much protein and not enough FIBER and NUTRIENTS from nutritious foods.

Dr Weiner actually talks a bit about this in the above video I shared under the Protein First myth.

Edited September 25, 20178 yr by Newme17

4 hours ago, Newme17 said:

A big thank you to Dr Weiner for dispeling the myths about WLS. Especially the last one. It was good to watch and get refreshed and be more motivated to keep doing what I'm doing, wfpb. Here's the video if you would like to watch/learn.

I love Dr. Weiner. I have watched just about all of his videos!!!

3 hours ago, Newme17 said:

That's the point of many well respected doctors and wls surgeons as well. Western diets are having WAY too much protein and not enough Fiber and NUTRIENTS from nutritious foods.

Preach sister

I am doing great eating 40-50g and I have even started logging only a couple days a week now just to spot check. Eating this way there is really no need to stress about calories or macros anymore.

Just now, Apple1 said:

Eating this way there is really no need to stress about calories or macros anymore.

You preach it!!! yay!!! Lol

Ok, I'm gonna share this link to a great video about carbs and why we should eat them. This was great!!

Done preaching for tonight.

https://jnovickrd.wistia.com/medias/6spnl236aq

Very nice video!

Just remember, for us bariatric folk, when at themac and cheese buffet, that big bowl of lentil soup turns into a cup of soup, with no mac and cheese!.

The concept of calorie density is a GREAT lesson, and it goes both ways when bariatric people are meal planning. During the weight loss phase, we have to keep calories low, nutrients high. During maintenance, we have to increase calories and keep nutrients high, and do it all in a small space.

Remember, for the first year we are working with eating only about 3-4 cups of food a day. Non-bariatric folk can eat that much at a single meal. Our protein, vitamin, mineral, fiber needs are the same, but we have to meet those goals in 1/3 the space.

Food for thought..

Good news is if we only eat 1400 calories, we should live 40% longer! Lol!

12 hours ago, Apple1 said:

Ok, I'm gonna share this link to a great video about carbs and why we should eat them. This was great!!

Done preaching for tonight.

https://jnovickrd.wistia.com/medias/6spnl236aq

Great video!!! I enjoyed it immensely. I loved the Cut The C.R.A.P. (Calorie Rich And Processed)!!! LOL Too funny.

37 minutes ago, Newme17 said:

Great video!!! I enjoyed it immensely. I loved the Cut The C.R.A.P. (Calorie Rich And Processed)!!! LOL Too funny.

That video came from Dr. McDougall's website. I just finished listening to his book The Starch Solution. He was in the documentary Forks over Knives. Great book and I can recommend it to anyone wanting to take their WFPB diet to the next level and eliminate oils. I am working on getting there. I think focusing on being as healthy as I can through diet and exercise is a great way to ensure I never go back to old bad habits.

Thank you @Newme17 for getting me interested in researching this topic with by creating thread and recommending Dr. Garth Davis's book.

17 hours ago, smooshycheeks said:

But NO ONE, bariatric or regular stomach, needs 80 grams of protein a day.

Umm.. maybe you didn't add up my given quantities of protein.

Oats: 10

Beans: 32

Nuts: 8

Total: 50.

The minimum protein required for an average female is 46g, so this only has 4 more grams than the bare minimum... and not enough for a man (who needs 56g).

Nowhere in the veg-based conversation have I stated people need 80g of protein. What I keep saying is with our limited stomach size, it's really, really hard to meet our protein needs through UNPROCESSED plant based foods.

News alert: protein shakes are extremely processed. "Boca burgers" probably are too..I don't know what they are, so that's an assumption.

Since we are talking about a "whole food, plant based" diet, I'm trying to show just how difficult it is to meet our nutritional needs that way.

Add in a bit of animal protein or processed veggie-protein shakes, and you'll be covered.

But if people want to be purists, they pretty much have to rely on beans and nuts all day (or processed bean noodles and tofu). I'm not saying it's impossible.. I'm saying it is HARD and takes planning and what I keep hearing is people saying, "don't worry, it'll take care of itself" and. it. won't.