I know this was mentioned before here in the Vegans/Vegetarians forums and I wanted to maybe start this thread for all things pertaining to the book that Dr. Garth Davis authored, Proteinaholic. So far I'm on chapter 6 of it and I'm just amazed with how sound it is and all the studies that are out there to support why we don't need such a high amount of protein, and why it's a culprit of obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.... There's just so much to talk about if anyone wants to get into discussion. Now, this thread IS NOT going to be for debate. I do not want anyone coming on here advocating high protein and what they "know" and debating with any of us who are or evolving into plant based, vegans or vegetarians. I want to share the things I've learned from the book and if anyone wants to challenge those, READ THE BOOK FIRST, and then you can come and talk about it. If you don't or haven't read the book, feel free to read the things that will be posted...and do your own homework to find these facts/truths out for yourself. I literally don't have time to do a protein ping pong match...so don't start one. You will be ignored.

Okay, with that said and out of the way, the first thing I want to mention is that Dr. Davis actually dispels the myths about protein and why our bodies don't need so much. It is not an opinionated book, it's a science/fact book. It makes TOTAL sense. He is quite comical too. The parts where he plays out his doctor/patient dialogues hit me the most...because I can relate to how I was educated about protein being what we all need. I had the same mentalities as he did regarding it, but after I started watching documentaries on plant based diets for the past couple of years, I've slowly become open to all the health benefits of eating plant based. But now, even though I knew plant based is great for the health, I didn't know that the protein component was/is what was causing so many problems in my health, my husband's, etc. Now, I've got science and truth to understand the premise of protein. The history of why, what Dr Davis talks about, we western society pick apart whole foods and live based off of macronutrients. Now, it just boggles me why we do that. The other thing that rings true and is nice knowing, is that he is a bariatric surgeon too. He knows what he's coaching/telling his patients. He knows that he was not a nutritionist, didn't know a single thing, but the one hour of nutrition studies in his school days, but he took the time to dive into history, studies, reports, etc to bring light to why western society is so unhealthy, and most of it is based on animal protein.

Wow.

Read the book!

24 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

News alert: Protein Shakes are extremely processed. "Boca burgers" probably are too..I don't know what they are, so that's an assumption.

Yes they are. I will keep drinking mine every morning nevertheless. I don't feel as if this hurts my over all health as my diet is so vastly improved over what it used to be. WFPB doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. Anything you can do to improve your diet and limit animal products and processed foods is a step in the right direction.

37 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

The minimum protein required for an average female is 46g, so this only has 4 more grams than the bare minimum... and not enough for a man (who needs 56g).

Check out the protein requirements calculator by Dr. Davis

http://proteinaholic.com/calculator/

it says I only need 38g daily. That explains why I am doing so well eating 40-50g.

Perfect! That's what I want to hear! "I drink my protein shakes so I can relax and eat whole, unprocessed foods the rest of the time" is absolutely the right thing to do.

I keep playing around with my options so I can also enjoy these foods... but for me, relying on fish and a bit of eggs and milk will take the place of protein shakes.

My newest creation:

Breakfast: 1 egg, 1 cup beans (22g prot.)

Lunch: 2 cups cooked veggies (have to eat in 2 sittings) (4g)

Snack: nuts and fruit (8g)

Dinner: 2oz fish and small sweet potato. (16g)

50g protein! I always aim a bit over because the different types of beans and nuts don't all contain the exact same amounts.

I'll try it out.. not sure if I can squeeze in that much food or not...

7 minutes ago, Apple1 said:

Check out the protein requirements calculator by Dr. Davis

http://proteinaholic.com/calculator/

it says I only need 38g daily. That explains why I am doing so well eating 40-50g.

That's a nifty calculator. Has me at 44, and my hubby at 65.

1 hour ago, Berry78 said:

Perfect! That's what I want to hear! "I drink my Protein Shakes so I can relax and eat whole, unprocessed foods the rest of the time" is absolutely the right thing to do.

I keep playing around with my options so I can also enjoy these foods... but for me, relying on fish and a bit of eggs and milk will take the place of Protein shakes.

My newest creation:

Breakfast: 1 egg, 1 cup Beans (22g prot.)

Lunch: 2 cups cooked veggies (have to eat in 2 sittings) (4g)

Snack: nuts and fruit (8g)

Dinner: 2oz fish and small sweet potato. (16g)

50g protein! I always aim a bit over because the different types of beans and nuts don't all contain the exact same amounts.

I'll try it out.. not sure if I can squeeze in that much food or not...

This is a quote by the same guy in the video I posted who is a RD working with Dr. McDougall. I like the way he explains things.

Right now we are all bombarded with every kind of vegan or plant-based diet in the world. How would you capsulize Jeff Novick’s diet?

I have really been thinking about that lately and how best to describe the principles of a healthy diet, and I think, plant-centered, minimally processed, calorie dilute, low SOS really sums it up. It’s not just vegan, vegetarian or plant-based because one could have a pretty bad vegan, vegetarian or plant-based diet. So I like to say “plant- centered” but I also add that it should be minimally processed. I don’t say “whole” or “unprocessed” as not all processing is bad. Processing per se isn’t what’s hurtful, it’s processing that either detracts from the value of the food (i.e., refining) or adds something that is potentially harmful, (i.e., salt, sugar, etc.). So plant-centered, minimally processed, and then calorie dilute, because so much food has become so calorie dense which is a major contributing factor for obesity and many other diseases. The fourth principle is a diet low in SOS, which is salt, oil/fat and sugar. Even if you have a plant-centered, minimally processed, calorie-dilute diet and you cover it with salt, sugar, and oil, it is not healthy. I’m not going to say none, but low, as it isn’t all or nothing.

Lol, he really wants his pasta!!!

You know, I had an epiphany over the last couple days. Bear with me, and you'll see where I'm going with this...

You pick an apple off the tree, and take a bite. Is it good? Yes. Boil it. Yes, still good.

You pick a stalk of celery, wipe it off and eat it. Is it good? Yes. Boil it. Yes, still good.

You dig up a potato, wipe it off and take a bite. Is it good? No. Boil it. Yes, now it's good.

You catch a fish or mammal and... cook it. It's good. Trust me! (lol).

Beans, nuts and seeds.. all good cooked, some good raw.

You pick some oats, and de-hull them and take a bite. Is it good? No. Boil it. It's edible, but not GOOD.

Almost every unprocessed food is good either raw or cooked, as is.. with maybe some salt added (beans and potatoes really need salt to be "good").

Except grains. Even adding salt to the boiled oats doesn't really make them good. That's why we always seem to need to add butter or milk or sugar or fruit or sauces or meat or SOMETHING to grains. Bread is usually so highly processed, that I don't even know what it would taste like with true 100% wheat, salt, yeast, and water.

Me thinks that if we just ate boiled grains with a touch of salt added, we would eat so LITTLE that it would mimic how they are SUPPOSED to be consumed. A hungry dude still probably wouldn't eat more than 1/2 cup of bare naked oatmeal.

Anyway.. this type of thinking is what sets grains apart in my head. They have nutrients, but not as many as vegetables.. and they just seem to create the need to ingredient-combine to make them palatable. Agricultural societies rely on them for a significant part of their diets.. but cave peeps would have eaten exceedingly few.

7 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

Anyway.. this type of thinking is what sets grains apart in my head. They have nutrients, but not as many as vegetables.. and they just seem to create the need to ingredient-combine to make them palatable. Agricultural societies rely on them for a significant part of their diets.. but cave peeps would have eaten exceedingly few.

But the whole grains and starchy veggies like sweet potatoes and white potatoes are what gives us the feeling of fullness. They are nutritious in their own right and they add the calories we need. Combining ingredients with calorie dense grains and less dense veggies is just exactly what we should be doing. It is a win win combination. Another good combo is a few nuts on a salad or slices of avacado.

29 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

Except grains. Even adding salt to the boiled oats doesn't really make them good. That's why we always seem to need to add butter or milk or sugar or fruit or sauces or meat or SOMETHING to grains. bread is usually so highly processed, that I don't even know what it would taste like with true 100% wheat, salt, yeast, and Water.

I was totally following you and getting you until you hit this point. Dear God, I pray you never have a chance to eat honest to goodness, orgasmic sour dough bread (if we could--given our new anatomy). It's the nectar of the gods! Made only with ground grain, water, salt (and only the yeast made through fermentation). Holy moly. I could shout about it and write sonnets and fill books about it's awesome power. LOL. In a former "life" I used to be a bread baker. I made our own sourdough, used wheat berries and grains that I ground/milled and baked things like bread, pizza, English muffins, pitas, flatbreads, lavash. So, in that iteration, the bread products made had very little processing beyond de-hulling where necessary, roughly grinding, and subjecting it to time and heat. Pure ecstasy. Of course, that was also the time when I ballooned to my highest, most unhealthy weight evs--325lbs. And fast forward almost 18 years and low and behold I'm a celiac. LOL. Jokes on me!

Well, I'm not really saying we shouldn't be eating grains... I can see how it comes across that way. Sorry about that. I'm just kinda thinking aloud. The study of the Blue Zones and McDougall et. al. They are all trying to find the perfect human diet. It's worth examining the different types of foods in big-picture thinking...

Wow Fluff.. you make that stuff sound like I've been missing something!

Maybe grains are TOO good??

I dunno.. so confused...

3 hours ago, Berry78 said:

"don't worry, it'll take care of itself" and. it. won't.

That's me...those are my words...and yes, it still does take care of itself eating the right foods. IMO,The whole idea is to not be so stuck on numbers, macro and micro nutrients...if you eat well (whole foods), then you'll get what your body needs. I understand the first 3 months or so of wls, it's quite a bit different. Now, I'm able to eat way more than before and I can get my dietary needs in. So, yes "I'm not worried because my WFPB diet will take care of my body the way it needs to".

3 hours ago, Apple1 said:

WFPB doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. Anything you can do to improve your diet and limit animal products and processed foods is a step in the right direction.

Absolutely this! I've quit animal meats...but I'm still having a little eggs and cheese and using my olive oil. BUT, the little bit that I am using of these foods do not compare to the majority of the veggies, fruits, and legumes that I'm consuming to better my health.

1 hour ago, Apple1 said:

So plant-centered, minimally processed, and then calorie dilute

Awww..yes, I agree....so should we start saying PCMPCD instead of WFPB???? LOL

@Berry78 Sorry, no, that wasn't what I was meaning to say! It was this line that inspired my post: "I don't even know what it would taste like with just true 100% wheat, salt, yeast and water." hehehe

In fact, Neopolitan pizza dough--one of the most sublime pizza doughs in the world, has that exact requisite to be considered authentic Neopolitan pizza. The dough must only contain: wheat, salt, yeast, and water.

I'm not so sure about whether it's good to eat grains or not. I know for me, it's poison--not just cuz of the celiacs, but because it makes my blood sugar bounce so high after eating it.

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by FluffyChix

15 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

Wow Fluff.. you make that stuff sound like I've been missing something!

Maybe grains are TOO good??

I dunno.. so confused...

Ezekiel bread is awesome....good for you too. Check out the ingredients:

Organic Sprouted Wheat, Filtered Water, Organic Sprouted Barley, Organic Sprouted Millet, Organic Malted Barley, Organic Sprouted Lentils, Organic Sprouted Soybeans, Organic Sprouted Spelt, Fresh Yeast, Organic Wheat Gluten, Sea Salt.