This is a really good review by the National Institue of Health, that surprises the heck out of me. With all the "fad" weight loss theories our there, they have concluded that over the long term for weight loss, it make absolutely no difference where you get your calories from. Ie. You could be primarily carbo based, fat based or protein based, and it doesn't matter. It is just calories. Period.

Quite surprising given the plethora or supposed good advise out there, but it goes right back to pure math. Calories in, expenditure out. Everything else in pure Voodoo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19246357

19 minutes ago, Superman84 said:

It's the same people who complain that they are slow losers and wonder why!?

But there is more to it than CICO. And there are legit slow losers who aren't secretly stuffing Little Debbie Ho Hos down their piehole. All of weight loss is based on metabolic cascades and interwoven feedback loops that are fueled and powered by things like enzymes, receptor sites, hormones, pro-hormones, etc, if any of them are blocked or limited through disease, imbalance, hormonal disregulation, nutrient disregulation, medications, health conditions, et al...then the natural progression will slow down...

It's so complex. Even the professionals are constantly evolving their nutritional position.

13 hours ago, Healthy_life2 said:

Calories are not created equal. A junk food diet in weight loss calories vs healthy foods in weight loss calories. Google it.

Don't think I could disagree more - https://www-1.kansas.com/news/local/article36718608.html#

Lost 27 pounds on junk food - switched to salad and a balanced diet, gained 17 pounds and his cholesterol went up.

Weight loss is simply about calorie restriction.

Ok, I'm done. This was meant as a way to help some people stay on their calorie count so they could lose weight. Now we are on the Mediterranean maintenance diet on how fish is better for diabetes.

I will end with this: many Asian cultures diets consist almost entirely of rice. Virtually all Asian cultures are fit and trim, but alas, there are also sumo wrestlers who instead eat primarily fish, vegetables, meat and tofu.

It's how much you eat, not what, and for those of us on the WLS path, keep that in mind. For the maintenance and after life, that's a completely different issue.

bad science makes for bad results when people are trying to gain knowledge. Calories per food were developed for the sole purpose of learning how much energy humans can draw from each different food. It's really pretty simple, and shouldn't be confused just because one food group has other side effects. Calories first, then which calories. Not the other way around, other than to help people maintain a count.

over and out.

I'm not a proponent of a Mediteranean Diet by the way (mainly cuz I can't spell it). Nor am I a fatophobe. Just for the record. LOL.

6 hours ago, Danny Paul said:

Since my weight loss and I'm sure that I'm not alone here, my health has greatly improved. I no longer have diabetes, high blood pressure, Gerd, gout and sleep apnea. I read postings from individuals who all attest that their weight loss resulted in a health benefit.

At one of my group meetings a person who recently had WLS told the group how she found pancakes that were fortified with Protein and that she enjoyed her pancakes. The group leader who is a nurse in the surgeons practice told us that even tough the pancakes had protein it was a bad food choice to make for a WLS patient.

I brought this up because this is another example of a person looking for reasons to do an end around on their WLS. Look, if you feel comfortable adhering to that study, I say go for it. I nor anyone on these boards should be telling you how to attain long term success. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean that it isn't right for you. I will end with this, I wish you continued success with your weight loss journey and continued good health.

Not sure how I feel about this - if she's eating the pancakes every day or 3+ times week then yes, I think it's a bad choice. If she's 3+ months post-op and eats it maybe once a week? I'm ok with that. I (hopefully) will subscribe to the moderation plan. Restricting whole kinds and types of foods in the past never worked for me. What do I plan to do? Find healthier versions of the things I like - and by healthier versions I mean lower carb and higher protein.

That one person might lose weight on junk food but the health implications are not good at all spiking insulin and raising cholesterol levels plus others so this is why most of us chose a bariatric path and obviously our diet should be strict to get the most benefit out of it and the fact that our intake is so little post op we have to go for the most nutritional food possible!

I've followed my doctors guidelines and was off multiple meds before I even left hospital and have lost over 100lbs and healthier than I've ever been before by being strict and following the doctors rules of high protein low carbs!

Obviously "some" ppl have medical reasons that may interfere with their results but most of it comes down to those who work harder have the best results!

But I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I wish them luck just don't complain.

3 hours ago, Fatboyslim1 said:

I too have seen a dramatic drop in BP already, and I am absolutely pro anything that helps people reach their goal. The whole idea of this thread is to dispel voodoo and fake science theories as to why people fail at losing weight (whether they have had WLS or not).

for WLS patients who are holding to 600-1000 calories per day, it makes virtually no difference if the eat carbs or protien, other than the fact that protien has a tendency to be more firm in nature (think chicken vs mashed potatoes" . That density stays in your pouch longer (don't drink while eating) and burns 25% in conversion. Carbs on the other hand spike insulin which makes you hungry,

but again, even if you do get an insulin spike, you have to fight through it and maintain your daily calorie goal.

calories in, expenditure out is the sole determining energy and storage factor in all creatures big and small on our planet, and people would be better served by not believing that some other "force" is causing them to gain weight.

i am large, because I choose to eat too much. It's as simple as that.

Best of luck!

Please read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. He will give you a much better understanding that obesity and weight loss is much more than "Eat less, move more" and that "all calories are the same."

38 minutes ago, AZhiker said:

Please read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung. He will give you a much better understanding that obesity and weight loss is much more than "Eat less, move more" and that "all calories are the same."

LURVE this!!! ^^^^

12 hours ago, Danny Paul said:

Since my weight loss and I'm sure that I'm not alone here, my health has greatly improved. I no longer have diabetes, high blood pressure, Gerd, gout and sleep apnea. I read postings from individuals who all attest that their weight loss resulted in a health benefit.

At one of my group meetings a person who recently had WLS told the group how she found pancakes that were fortified with Protein and that she enjoyed her pancakes. The group leader who is a nurse in the surgeons practice told us that even tough the pancakes had protein it was a bad food choice to make for a WLS patient.

I brought this up because this is another example of a person looking for reasons to do an end around on their WLS. Look, if you feel comfortable adhering to that study, I say go for it. I nor anyone on these boards should be telling you how to attain long term success. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean that it isn't right for you. I will end with this, I wish you continued success with your weight loss journey and continued good health.

I can't speak for people in weight loss mode, but I know a ton of people in maintenance who eat protein pancakes. They use protein powder instead of flour, artificial sweetener (if any sweetener at all, that is), eggs, baking powder, unsweetened almond milk - sometimes cottage cheese or yogurt - and put sugar free syrup on them. I make them sometimes and top them with Greek yogurt, too, for extra protein. Nothing in those that is particularly bad. I suppose if they make you crave the real thing, then yea, but.... (of course the calories might be too high for those in weight loss mode, but not if you're in maintenance, unless you're making gigantic ones or eating a ton of them or something..

6 hours ago, Fatboyslim1 said:

Calories first, then which calories. Not the other way around, other than to help people maintain a count.

"How many calories" - first thing to get right.

"What kind of calories" - the fine tuning stuff.

People can't lose weight 1) fast enough and 2) seem to be in a panic in regards of getting everything 110% perfect from the start.

So there are too many people starting to fine tune the stuff without having figured out how far the basics are getting them. Some start their weight loss attempt/journey with firing the whole broadside on their fat without taking into the equation that it might be smart to keep some bullets in the arsenal to fire off later when things are slowing down and/or there are these last 10 kg that don't want to come off.

So maybe thinking about that insulin index or spie or glycemic index or spike or the thermogenesis effect of different macronutrients is not really necessary as long as weight loss happens without worrying about this stuff. There will be time to worry about this later. Promised.

This "fine tuning" is way worse on bodybuilding and/or fitness boards though, btw. "OMGZ, have to start with 6 days a week, 2 times a day going to the gym doing a split program, eating only protein and taking a 1000 supplements in the right order at the right time. If not, no gAinZ, bro!!" (But don't worry, we aren't that far behind, lol.)

LOL and don't forget the incretin effect.

Better whip that GLP 1 and GIP into shape, bro.

Trust your professionals and follow your own plan. Enough said.

This is a educational thread, I have a horomone imbalance and weight loss is beyond a battle. I eat right, hydrate, maintain the proper portions, eat mostly pescatarian, the proper carbs , I don't drink soda, love vegetables... I can go on & on. I appreciate all of your comments and knowledge, Fluffy chick you are pretty darn amazing....

Even having studied holistic health, Ayurvedic medicine, and nutrition- As well as living with metabolic disorders. I’m far from understanding anything. Except that calories are not equal, both the form it takes a AND how each person’s body metabolizes it. I think this argument can keep going til the cows come home but reality is while yes calories are important, depending on the way your body works All calories are definitely not equal.

Also exercise is not for weight loss as much as it is for building muscle and muscle uses more calories per lb than fat. At rest, Body Fat only burns 3 calories per lb! While muscle (I don’t remember exactly) I think burns 50 calories per lb.

as for protein intake It’s important to adapt your daily intake based on your current weight. Approximately 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or 0.36 grams per pound.

Personally I think it’s healthy to stick to guidelines of protein, little to no sugar, then adding vegetables as tolerated. And introducing complex carbs in maintenance as tolerated.

Also low carb doesn’t always = meat only or high protein ...

as for calories ...

corn is not the same calories as spinach

sprouted grain sourdough bread isn’t the same as processed white bread

Etc etc etc

I’m too tired ... sorry

also ... @FluffyChix posted some very informative videos