This is a really good review by the National Institue of Health, that surprises the heck out of me. With all the "fad" weight loss theories our there, they have concluded that over the long term for weight loss, it make absolutely no difference where you get your calories from. Ie. You could be primarily carbo based, fat based or protein based, and it doesn't matter. It is just calories. Period.

Quite surprising given the plethora or supposed good advise out there, but it goes right back to pure math. Calories in, expenditure out. Everything else in pure Voodoo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19246357

Interesting...

22 minutes ago, Fatboyslim1 said:

This is a really good review by the National Institue of Health, that surprises the heck out of me. With all the "fad" weight loss theories our there, they have concluded that over the long term for weight loss, it make absolutely no difference where you get your calories from. Ie. You could be primarily carbo based, fat based or Protein based, and it doesn't matter. It is just calories. Period.

Quite surprising given the plethora or supposed good advise out there, but it goes right back to pure math. Calories in, expenditure out. Everything else in pure Voodoo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19246357

Totally disagree with the ncbi on this one. 100 calories of sugar is going to result in a very different response in your body than 100 calories of oil.

Just now, AZhiker said:

Totally disagree with the ncbi on this one. 100 calories of sugar is going to result in a very different response in your body than 100 calories of oil.

a meeeeeelllllion percent.

16 minutes ago, AZhiker said:

Totally disagree with the ncbi on this one. 100 calories of sugar is going to result in a very different response in your body than 100 calories of oil.

You hit the nail on the head - 100 cals of sucrose will cause an insulin spike and all sorts of other things BUT 100 calories is 100 calories and over a long enough time period any diet lower in calories taken in than calories used will make someone lose weight given that everything else is equal (no PCOS or Diabetes or the like).

There was a professor at K-State that lost something like 50 pounds on junk food just to prove this point.

I think it's probably true that 100 calories is 100 calories wherever it comes from, but 100 calories of sugar spikes - and then drops - most people's blood sugar, making you crave food a lot faster afterward. 100 calories of fat keeps you satisfied for a long time, so you're less likely to be eating again an hour or two afterward. So...you'll probably end up taking in fewer calories by the end of the day. At least that makes sense to ME, anyway...

edited to add that in other words, I agree with the above poster that 100 kcal of sugar will elicit a very different response from your body than 100 kcal of fat. But if you're ONLY looking at calorie vs calorie, then yes - they're probably the same.

Edited January 2, 20206 yr by catwoman7

Here is what I've been told about calories. All calories are not created equal as far as WLS patients are concerned. I was told that I needed to get 80 grams of protein a day. In order to get that protein I need to eat foods that supply me with protein. So, a four ounce portion of salmon has approximately 185 calories give or take. I can eat 185 calories worth of potato chips but I wouldn't get the same healthy benefit I do with the salmon. The salmon will satisfy my hunger much more than the potato chips and I get get many more useful nutrients with the salmon.

When the experts say it doesn't matter where we get our calories from, in truth it matters very much for our long term weight loss success and health benefits.

Edited January 2, 20206 yr by Danny Paul
correct typo

Calories are not created equal. A junk food diet in weight loss calories vs healthy foods in weight loss calories. Google it.

1 hour ago, Danny Paul said:

1 hour ago, Danny Paul said:

Here is what I've been told about calories. All calories are not created equal as far as WLS patients are concerned. I was told that I needed to get 80 grams of Protein a day. In order to get that protein I need to eat foods that supply me with protein. So, a four ounce portion of salmon has approximately 185 calories give or take. I can eat 185 calories worth of potato chips but I wouldn't get the same healthy benefit I do with the salmon. The salmon will satisfy my hunger much more than the potato chips and I get get many more useful nutrients with the salmon.

When the experts say it doesn't matter where we get our calories from, in truth it matters very much for our long term weight loss success and health benefits.

I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. We are all being advised to eat a maximum protein diet at this time, because we a)need to avoid the loss of muscle mass and b) we are burning the carbohydrates and fat that we have previously consumed (in mass amounts) which is currently stored in our bodies as fat.

people need to stop confusing weight loss with "health benefit" during the short time we are all in the weight loss mode. If we all quit making excuses, we all have a better chance of being successful.

Then when we have burned off our carbohydrate induced body fat, we can build individual diets for ourselves based on our own circumstances, activity levels and goals. But we really need to get over the "excuse" that somehow some of us are perpetual motion machines. It is harmful to our success, especially those who are confused or struggling .

47 minutes ago, Healthy_life2 said:

Calories are not created equal. A junk food diet in weight loss calories vs healthy foods in weight loss calories. Google it.

While calories are just calories, there is a conversion burn difference between protiens and carbs/sugars. 25% of the protien you consume will be burned off converting it to an energy source we can metabolize, while only 7% or carbs/sugars will be lost in the conversion process. But quite honestly, for someone on a 800 calorie a day Bariatric weight loss diet, the maximum difference between those two sources is only 144 calories of "extra" per day. So that means if you eat 800 calories of pure sugar per day, vs pure protein, you will conceivably lose 144/3500= .041 less conversion burn loss per day. That's a maximum 4% of one lb, difference, which is 4/10 of one oz.

However If you were to eat pure carbs or sugar you would spike your insulin resulting in a sugar high "endorphins,etc.." plus it will make you want to eat more, but again that has absolutely nothing to do with calories in vs expenditures out.

People do not fail at this because they encounter an 18% conversion rate difference on carbs vs protien. They fail because they eat too much or all types of food, and quite possibly they do so, because they don't understand the basics of nutrition.

EVEN if one person lost weight on a junk food diet there will be huge health implications; I see people turning to those "studies" as looking for reasons to CHEAT on their diet...

Bariatric patients have to follow specific guidelines compared to someone who is an athlete...

I know multiple people who drink and eat whatever they want and never gain weight and that's because they're at the gym every day!

Also being skinny does not always mean healthy if you're diet in high in fats your body will suffer!

Also there's a lot of skinny fit people due to drug addiction!!

If you're not prepared to change your life then you're not Ready for surgery!!!

6 hours ago, Fatboyslim1 said:

people need to stop confusing weight loss with "health benefit"

Since my weight loss and I'm sure that I'm not alone here, my health has greatly improved. I no longer have diabetes, high blood pressure, Gerd, gout and sleep apnea. I read postings from individuals who all attest that their weight loss resulted in a health benefit.

At one of my group meetings a person who recently had WLS told the group how she found pancakes that were fortified with protein and that she enjoyed her pancakes. The group leader who is a nurse in the surgeons practice told us that even tough the pancakes had protein it was a bad food choice to make for a WLS patient.

3 hours ago, Superman84 said:

as looking for reasons to CHEAT on their diet...

I brought this up because this is another example of a person looking for reasons to do an end around on their WLS. Look, if you feel comfortable adhering to that study, I say go for it. I nor anyone on these boards should be telling you how to attain long term success. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean that it isn't right for you. I will end with this, I wish you continued success with your weight loss journey and continued good health.

I too have seen a dramatic drop in BP already, and I am absolutely pro anything that helps people reach their goal. The whole idea of this thread is to dispel voodoo and fake science theories as to why people fail at losing weight (whether they have had WLS or not).

for WLS patients who are holding to 600-1000 calories per day, it makes virtually no difference if the eat carbs or protien, other than the fact that protien has a tendency to be more firm in nature (think chicken vs mashed potatoes" . That density stays in your pouch longer (don't drink while eating) and burns 25% in conversion. Carbs on the other hand spike insulin which makes you hungry,

but again, even if you do get an insulin spike, you have to fight through it and maintain your daily calorie goal.

calories in, expenditure out is the sole determining energy and storage factor in all creatures big and small on our planet, and people would be better served by not believing that some other "force" is causing them to gain weight.

i am large, because I choose to eat too much. It's as simple as that.

Best of luck!

1 minute ago, Fatboyslim1 said:

I too have seen a dramatic drop in BP already, and I am absolutely pro anything that helps people reach their goal. The whole idea of this thread is to dispel voodoo and fake science theories as to why people fail at losing weight (whether they have had WLS or not).

for WLS patients who are holding to 600-1000 calories per day, it makes virtually no difference if the eat carbs or protien, other than the fact that protien has a tendency to be more firm in nature (think chicken vs mashed potatoes" . That density stays in your pouch longer (don't drink while eating) and burns 25% in conversion. Carbs on the other hand spike insulin which makes you hungry,

but again, even if you do get an insulin spike, you have to fight through it and maintain your daily calorie goal.

calories in, expenditure out is the sole determining energy and storage factor in all creatures big and small on our planet, and people would be better served by not believing that some other "force" is causing them to gain weight.

i am large, because I choose to eat too much. It's as simple as that.

Best of luck!

What are your sources?

Cuz there is a doctor in Newcastle who did a study on diabetics where he reduced their diets to 800 and had them eat a more Mediterranean protocol. It effectively reversed the diabetes in many of them. The key was calorie restriction, but it was also important to have a lower protein from more fish rather than red meats or a western diet mix. So much lower in fat with different fat composition. The diet has a seriously low calorie density (high fiber, low fat, lots of veggies, fruits, legumes) and seriously high nutrient density.

I am aware that in the absence of carbs, protein requires calories to metabolize for energy. I guess my prob with what you're saying is that all carbs are created equal and that all calories are created equal and that just isn't the case. The amount of processing, the glycemic index and the glycemic load all play into how badly our bodies are effected by them. The degree to which we are metabolically broken is also important.

I do believe we must all have a caloric restriction/macro restriction to lose--especially if we are MO...

Totally agree with @FluffyChix

I just see those so called studies as people making excuses for eating crap because some obscure study says all calories are the same; which is total absolute BS!

It's the same people who complain that they are slow losers and wonder why!?

It's not rocket science people!