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Hi, folks. I have not been on this board for a long time. Today, I had a visit to my bariatric surgeon's physician assistant (PA). I am 16 months out from roux en y surgery and have lost a total of 101 pounds. I went there today because I have been experiencing severe abdominal pain, bloating and flatulence at night, every night x 2-3 weeks. I should add that I am an RN and am one semester away from completing my Family Nurse Practitioner Master's degree. The PA gave me some advice, ordered some meds and labs and I checked out--it was about 4:10pm.

She had told me to do the labs today, due to the severity of the symptoms I was having. Their office was closing. I went to my PCP's office--which has a lab tech--and they were closing and the lab tech had left. I went downstairs to the outpatient lab and it was closed. The only lab open was the STAT lab on the 2nd floor. Since I was still in the building, I thought I'd just double check that the PA did not want these labs to be drawn STAT. I went back to the office.

It was locked. I knocked on the door. I had already heard the cackling and loud voices from 10 ft away. As I got closer, I heard the PA saying "I know, and every time she moved her arms! I couldn't believe it! And she had her teenage son with her!" Needless to say both me and my teenaged son (almost 17) heard this. He drove me today because I wasn't feeling well and he also needs to rack up his driving hours to complete his driver's permit and get his regular license. Just then, the PA, the receptionist and someone from the billing dept emerged from the door. They turned white as ghosts. Their jaws almost hit the floor. Being the classy person that I am, I didn't reference that I overheard them talking about something on my body just then. Their reaction confirmed what I thought I overheard. I asked the PA if she wanted the labs STAT, she said no, and my son and I walked to the elevator. The women huddled back by the door, somehow frozen. The only way to either the stairs or the elevator was toward the direction my son and I walked. Clearly, the women felt ashamed (?)/shook by being overheard body-shaming a patient, violating HIPAA, and being overall terrible people.

As we drove home, I was pretty hurt. Most patients at a bariatric surgeon's office are going to have body image issues. Whether they are pre-op or post-op, they have likely experienced some type of negativity about their bodies (either from within or without, or both.) Also, I should add, I am a breast cancer survivor. December 2018 is my five-year anniversary of having stage 2 invasive breast cancer and having a b/l radical mastectomy and subsequent reconstruction, followed by a hysterectomy. One year after my b/l mastectomy, the reality hit me that my GG breasts were now AAs, mutilated and scarred. I felt unattractive, repulsive and beyond depressed. I was thrilled to be alive and that it was caught in time to prevent spreading to my lymph nodes and that by doing a b/l mastectomy, I didn't have to do chemo or radiation. I failed to be able to tolerate Tamoxifen, and had to be put on a cocktail of other meds that resulted in me gaining about 50 pounds to my already Rubenesque 225 lb body. It was a low time.

Then, I got my reconstruction. My breast did not, do not, and will not look like "porn star" boobs, or "stripper boobs," although many people have suggested that was the "up side" of breast cancer. See, when you get a radical mastectomy, they hollow you out like a cantaloupe. Then, either at the same time, or at a later surgery, they insert implants (or, in some cases, spacers). Because I was 220 pounds when I got my reconstruction, they put the biggest implants the FDA allows--800 cc. The reconstruction surgeon repaired a lot of the scarring caused by a severe post-op infection from the initial surgery, during which both of my breast turned black and I had to debride the dead tissue myself at home. I was and am thrilled that I had a good reconstruction surgeon and, after recovering, felt a little bit more whole.

While I had no breast tissue before, but now, any extra cushion vanished as I lost over 100 pounds. My breasts are skin and implant. It's definitely not a "hot" look. Well, all this cancer talk comes into play because what the women were talking about was my breasts. You see, when you get a breast reconstruction, your breasts don't look like regular breasts. Again, they are hard, stiff, and look like "robot boobs," as I call them. Today, at the office, I was wearing a bamboo material sundress, that was mostly dark teal, but also had other colors tie-dyed into the design. In the front is a "peekaboo" hole. The rest of the dress is just an A-line dress with a full skirt. It is not particularly "sexy." (Including my flabby/flappy wing-like arms!) But because my breasts don't move, there is a tiny bit of "side boob" seen protruding into my armpits. Not regular side boob--because remember, nothing is "soft" anymore. No, it's part of the round, button shape (just imagine an implant covered with skin, literally.)

As I reconstructed what the women were saying, I recalled more and more of the beginning. I guess in the moment, in shock, my brain kind of protected me and I somewhat blanked out. Look, we are all human, I get it. We all make mistakes. But for God's sakes, you would think that the staff--including a provider--would be a little more sensitive about yucking it up about patient's bodies while anywhere near the doors/exit.

I am posting here in general for support because it just feels yucky. I know I've never done anything like that as an RN, but one never knows how one's words may affect another person. Also, the HIPAA violation bothers me. I work very hard to whisper, even when I am behind closed office doors, because I know how much sound carries in offices. I often tell my patients "I'm sorry I'm kind of talking softly, but these room walls are paper-thin and I want to protect your privacy." I know I won't have the b*lls to tell the office. I feel like somehow they would turn it around on me, even though 3 of them were there and me *AND* my son heard that. And as a mother of a 16 year old son, a 19 year old son, and a 21 year old daughter--it's creepy.

The implication that my son--who has seen me go through hell and high Water with cancer and this gastric bypass--would even think about looking at my breasts is disgusting. This can only come from a woman with no children. The PA is probably like 35 (I am 44), no wedding ring. Normally, I wouldn't even mention any of that because I fully believe in living my own life and others live theirs but for f*cks sake, please don't foist your sick thoughts on me.

I would like some thoughts on how I might handle this. I feel like I won't have the courage to say anything, for fear of being "gaslighted." But, I also feel like there is a lesson for their staff to learn. It occurred to me to write an anonymous letter to the surgeon/head of practice and give a little vague summary of what happened and advise that his staff might want to not be so catty, mean, and to stop violating HIPAA. I don't know. I just know it hurt. I'm hurt. Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.

Edited by virginiaRN
added detail and typo
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I am so sorry that you went through this. When you go back for your blood work, bring 3 copies of your post with you. Stop in and tell the PA that you need a moment of her time and that her "friends" need to join you. Give them each a copy of your post and add a p.s. at the bottom to them know if you ever hear the slightest hint that this behavior has been repeated, you will report them to the surgeon, the office manager and maybe even post it on YELP. Remind them that patients DO talk. You don't have to say a word, then walk out with your head high. If the PA won't meet with you, go straight to the surgeon and office manager.

You've dealt with enough sh!t in your life. You don't need to deal with theirs, too.

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Excellent suggestion, do just that. A very classy way to handle a game that never should have been played. Everyone in this world has a superior, let us pray it will not be necessary to go further. But you would be justified, in my opinion.
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Shame on those %^*holes! I work in healthcare too, in compliance and these people know better. I’m so sorry you had to hear this. Knowing how bitchy people can be in the workplace I’d let it go to avoid even more stress, but that’s just me. Be proud of all you have made it through and your strength through all your battles. I wish you the best.

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Give me their current work addresses, I'll fix this...

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I mean, I was the only patient there from 3-4. And they close at 4. Not to be d**k ex-ER nurse but that’s not that high stress. And I’ve been going there 2 years. It’s a casual pace compared to most practices. In all likelihood, I will blow it off. But it’s actually just sad. I feel worse for the pre-op people who are exposed to this brand new PA (they have been thru 8 in 2 years).

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12 minutes ago, virginiaRN said:

I mean, I was the only patient there from 3-4. And they close at 4. Not to be d**k ex-ER nurse but that’s not that high stress. And I’ve been going there 2 years. It’s a casual pace compared to most practices. In all likelihood, I will blow it off. But it’s actually just sad. I feel worse for the pre-op people who are exposed to this brand new PA (they have been thru 8 in 2 years).

Sounds like she's in the wrong job.

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Hi, folks. I have not been on this board for a long time. Today, I had a visit to my bariatric surgeon's physician assistant (PA). I am 16 months out from roux en y surgery and have lost a total of 101 pounds. I went there today because I have been experiencing severe abdominal pain, bloating and flatulence at night, every night x 2-3 weeks. I should add that I am an RN and am one semester away from completing my Family Nurse Practitioner Master's degree. The PA gave me some advice, ordered some meds and labs and I checked out--it was about 4:10pm.
She had told me to do the labs today, due to the severity of the symptoms I was having. Their office was closing. I went to my PCP's office--which has a lab tech--and they were closing and the lab tech had left. I went downstairs to the outpatient lab and it was closed. The only lab open was the STAT lab on the 2nd floor. Since I was still in the building, I thought I'd just double check that the PA did not want these labs to be drawn STAT. I went back to the office.
It was locked. I knocked on the door. I had already heard the cackling and loud voices from 10 ft away. As I got closer, I heard the PA saying "I know, and every time she moved her arms! I couldn't believe it! And she had her teenage son with her!" Needless to say both me and my teenaged son (almost 17) heard this. He drove me today because I wasn't feeling well and he also needs to rack up his driving hours to complete his driver's permit and get his regular license. Just then, the PA, the receptionist and someone from the billing dept emerged from the door. They turned white as ghosts. Their jaws almost hit the floor. Being the classy person that I am, I didn't reference that I overheard them talking about something on my body just then. Their reaction confirmed what I thought I overheard. I asked the PA if she wanted the labs STAT, she said no, and my son and I walked to the elevator. The women huddled back by the door, somehow frozen. The only way to either the stairs or the elevator was toward the direction my son and I walked. Clearly, the women felt ashamed (?)/shook by being overheard body-shaming a patient, violating HIPAA, and being overall terrible people.
As we drove home, I was pretty hurt. Most patients at a bariatric surgeon's office are going to have body image issues. Whether they are pre-op or post-op, they have likely experienced some type of negativity about their bodies (either from within or without, or both.) Also, I should add, I am a breast cancer survivor. December 2018 is my five-year anniversary of having stage 2 invasive breast cancer and having a b/l radical mastectomy and subsequent reconstruction, followed by a hysterectomy. One year after my b/l mastectomy, the reality hit me that my GG breasts were now AAs, mutilated and scarred. I felt unattractive, repulsive and beyond depressed. I was thrilled to be alive and that it was caught in time to prevent spreading to my lymph nodes and that by doing a b/l mastectomy, I didn't have to do chemo or radiation. I failed to be able to tolerate Tamoxifen, and had to be put on a cocktail of other meds that resulted in me gaining about 50 pounds to my already Rubenesque 225 lb body. It was a low time.
Then, I got my reconstruction. My breast did not, do not, and will not look like "porn star" boobs, or "stripper boobs," although many people have suggested that was the "up side" of breast cancer. See, when you get a radical mastectomy, they hollow you out like a cantaloupe. Then, either at the same time, or at a later surgery, they insert implants (or, in some cases, spacers). Because I was 220 pounds when I got my reconstruction, they put the biggest implants the FDA allows--800 cc. The reconstruction surgeon repaired a lot of the scarring caused by a severe post-op infection from the initial surgery, during which both of my breast turned black and I had to debride the dead tissue myself at home. I was and am thrilled that I had a good reconstruction surgeon and, after recovering, felt a little bit more whole.
While I had no breast tissue before, but now, any extra cushion vanished as I lost over 100 pounds. My breasts are skin and implant. It's definitely not a "hot" look. Well, all this cancer talk comes into play because what the women were talking about was my breasts. You see, when you get a breast reconstruction, your breasts don't look like regular breasts. Again, they are hard, stiff, and look like "robot boobs," as I call them. Today, at the office, I was wearing a bamboo material sundress, that was mostly dark teal, but also had other colors tie-dyed into the design. In the front is a "peekaboo" hole. The rest of the dress is just an A-line dress with a full skirt. It is not particularly "sexy." (Including my flabby/flappy wing-like arms!) But because my breasts don't move, there is a tiny bit of "side boob" seen protruding into my armpits. Not regular side boob--because remember, nothing is "soft" anymore. No, it's part of the round, button shape (just imagine an implant covered with skin, literally.)
As I reconstructed what the women were saying, I recalled more and more of the beginning. I guess in the moment, in shock, my brain kind of protected me and I somewhat blanked out. Look, we are all human, I get it. We all make mistakes. But for God's sakes, you would think that the staff--including a provider--would be a little more sensitive about yucking it up about patient's bodies while anywhere near the doors/exit.
I am posting here in general for support because it just feels yucky. I know I've never done anything like that as an RN, but one never knows how one's words may affect another person. Also, the HIPAA violation bothers me. I work very hard to whisper, even when I am behind closed office doors, because I know how much sound carries in offices. I often tell my patients "I'm sorry I'm kind of talking softly, but these room walls are paper-thin and I want to protect your privacy." I know I won't have the b*lls to tell the office. I feel like somehow they would turn it around on me, even though 3 of them were there and me *AND* my son heard that. And as a mother of a 16 year old son, a 19 year old son, and a 21 year old daughter--it's creepy.
The implication that my son--who has seen me go through hell and high Water with cancer and this gastric bypass--would even think about looking at my breasts is disgusting. This can only come from a woman with no children. The PA is probably like 35 (I am 44), no wedding ring. Normally, I wouldn't even mention any of that because I fully believe in living my own life and others live theirs but for f*cks sake, please don't foist your sick thoughts on me.
I would like some thoughts on how I might handle this. I feel like I won't have the courage to say anything, for fear of being "gaslighted." But, I also feel like there is a lesson for their staff to learn. It occurred to me to write an anonymous letter to the surgeon/head of practice and give a little vague summary of what happened and advise that his staff might want to not be so catty, mean, and to stop violating HIPAA. I don't know. I just know it hurt. I'm hurt. Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.
You should be proud of yourself at the strong women that you are and how blessed you r to be where u r now. Hippa can not be violated. There is 0 tolerance for anyone in the workplace or out of the workplace violating patient confidentiality let alone Making fun of a patient . those people should really pay the consecuenses. Probably they make fun of everyone n it shouldnt be tolerated. Confront the b%_:&* n let her know that u heard her and also your son heard. Them. There for u didnt aproach them because you were very hurt but that u. Have made a report against her n you will go further with it until justice is done. Because a person without empathy, without a sensitive heart can not be in the health care buissiness and she should really look into a different proffession. Give her a copy of the report and proceed to give the other copy to her superior. God dont like ugly therefore she should pay the consecuences whatever it may be and you shouldnt feel bad about it. God continue blessing you
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I’m not sure I have much to add but I read your whole post and I felt so awful...like it was me they were talking about. This is one of the most unprofessional things I have heard of happening and everyone involved should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

The office I go to has a practice manager. This manager is not a medical professional, but a business professional. If there is a person like this involved there that is whom I would address my concerns to. Patients nowadays have many options for care, and losing business isn’t good for any medical practice. If these people did this to you, it could happen to anyone.

Again, I am terribly sorry that you had to experience this. I think we all have been hurt by strangers comments, but would not expect such behavior from medical providers.

Hugs.

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I work in healthcare also, and what they did was completely inappropriate. Personally, I think they should be called on the carpet for it, or at the very least be made aware of how this has affected you on an emotional level, and about the things you mentioned here about your history. But this is a personal decision you have to make, because this is the office you will be returning to. I feel there will always be an awkwardness there now when you have to return for follow up, and that is so not fair to you.

My thought is that if it happened to me I would write a personal letter to the PA, with a copy to the doctor, on what happened, explaining it like you did here. (Cut and paste saves some time!) This not only affected you, but I'm sure your son was also upset by it. Perhaps a good suggestion would be that the staff involved should attend some mandatory sensitivity training to prevent it happening to someone else, as there is nothing that can be done to take back what happened to you or make it ok.

They are probably (hopefully) mortified by what happened, but what they feel is probably nothing close to what they made you feel.

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At best, these staff sound incredibly unprofessional. At worst, they are violating patient confidentiality. That behaviour does not sound like a one off incident. They work with very vulnerable patients and they need to be put on notice that their behaviour is unacceptable.

I would email or write to the clinic manager and suggest that they investigate the incident. My clinic is owned by the surgeons, so if that happened to me, I would write to them. They take care to hire sensitive staff. I've actually seen their job ads, even their receptionists have to be aware that they are working with vulnerable people.

So many WLS patients have mental health and body issues. These staff need appropriate training. They could be acting inappropriately with other patients too. Someone needs to say something. So many WLS patients have mental health struggles. If that had happened to me when I first went in for a consult, I might have cancelled my surgery. I definitely would have cried for a few days.

You (and your son) are owed an apology. That is disgusting. I'm so sorry this happened to you. You sound like an amazing, courageous woman.

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Hi, folks. I have not been on this board for a long time. Today, I had a visit to my bariatric surgeon's physician assistant (PA). I am 16 months out from roux en y surgery and have lost a total of 101 pounds. I went there today because I have been experiencing severe abdominal pain, bloating and flatulence at night, every night x 2-3 weeks. I should add that I am an RN and am one semester away from completing my Family Nurse Practitioner Master's degree. The PA gave me some advice, ordered some meds and labs and I checked out--it was about 4:10pm.
She had told me to do the labs today, due to the severity of the symptoms I was having. Their office was closing. I went to my PCP's office--which has a lab tech--and they were closing and the lab tech had left. I went downstairs to the outpatient lab and it was closed. The only lab open was the STAT lab on the 2nd floor. Since I was still in the building, I thought I'd just double check that the PA did not want these labs to be drawn STAT. I went back to the office.
It was locked. I knocked on the door. I had already heard the cackling and loud voices from 10 ft away. As I got closer, I heard the PA saying "I know, and every time she moved her arms! I couldn't believe it! And she had her teenage son with her!" Needless to say both me and my teenaged son (almost 17) heard this. He drove me today because I wasn't feeling well and he also needs to rack up his driving hours to complete his driver's permit and get his regular license. Just then, the PA, the receptionist and someone from the billing dept emerged from the door. They turned white as ghosts. Their jaws almost hit the floor. Being the classy person that I am, I didn't reference that I overheard them talking about something on my body just then. Their reaction confirmed what I thought I overheard. I asked the PA if she wanted the labs STAT, she said no, and my son and I walked to the elevator. The women huddled back by the door, somehow frozen. The only way to either the stairs or the elevator was toward the direction my son and I walked. Clearly, the women felt ashamed (?)/shook by being overheard body-shaming a patient, violating HIPAA, and being overall terrible people.
As we drove home, I was pretty hurt. Most patients at a bariatric surgeon's office are going to have body image issues. Whether they are pre-op or post-op, they have likely experienced some type of negativity about their bodies (either from within or without, or both.) Also, I should add, I am a breast cancer survivor. December 2018 is my five-year anniversary of having stage 2 invasive breast cancer and having a b/l radical mastectomy and subsequent reconstruction, followed by a hysterectomy. One year after my b/l mastectomy, the reality hit me that my GG breasts were now AAs, mutilated and scarred. I felt unattractive, repulsive and beyond depressed. I was thrilled to be alive and that it was caught in time to prevent spreading to my lymph nodes and that by doing a b/l mastectomy, I didn't have to do chemo or radiation. I failed to be able to tolerate Tamoxifen, and had to be put on a cocktail of other meds that resulted in me gaining about 50 pounds to my already Rubenesque 225 lb body. It was a low time.
Then, I got my reconstruction. My breast did not, do not, and will not look like "porn star" boobs, or "stripper boobs," although many people have suggested that was the "up side" of breast cancer. See, when you get a radical mastectomy, they hollow you out like a cantaloupe. Then, either at the same time, or at a later surgery, they insert implants (or, in some cases, spacers). Because I was 220 pounds when I got my reconstruction, they put the biggest implants the FDA allows--800 cc. The reconstruction surgeon repaired a lot of the scarring caused by a severe post-op infection from the initial surgery, during which both of my breast turned black and I had to debride the dead tissue myself at home. I was and am thrilled that I had a good reconstruction surgeon and, after recovering, felt a little bit more whole.
While I had no breast tissue before, but now, any extra cushion vanished as I lost over 100 pounds. My breasts are skin and implant. It's definitely not a "hot" look. Well, all this cancer talk comes into play because what the women were talking about was my breasts. You see, when you get a breast reconstruction, your breasts don't look like regular breasts. Again, they are hard, stiff, and look like "robot boobs," as I call them. Today, at the office, I was wearing a bamboo material sundress, that was mostly dark teal, but also had other colors tie-dyed into the design. In the front is a "peekaboo" hole. The rest of the dress is just an A-line dress with a full skirt. It is not particularly "sexy." (Including my flabby/flappy wing-like arms!) But because my breasts don't move, there is a tiny bit of "side boob" seen protruding into my armpits. Not regular side boob--because remember, nothing is "soft" anymore. No, it's part of the round, button shape (just imagine an implant covered with skin, literally.)
As I reconstructed what the women were saying, I recalled more and more of the beginning. I guess in the moment, in shock, my brain kind of protected me and I somewhat blanked out. Look, we are all human, I get it. We all make mistakes. But for God's sakes, you would think that the staff--including a provider--would be a little more sensitive about yucking it up about patient's bodies while anywhere near the doors/exit.
I am posting here in general for support because it just feels yucky. I know I've never done anything like that as an RN, but one never knows how one's words may affect another person. Also, the HIPAA violation bothers me. I work very hard to whisper, even when I am behind closed office doors, because I know how much sound carries in offices. I often tell my patients "I'm sorry I'm kind of talking softly, but these room walls are paper-thin and I want to protect your privacy." I know I won't have the b*lls to tell the office. I feel like somehow they would turn it around on me, even though 3 of them were there and me *AND* my son heard that. And as a mother of a 16 year old son, a 19 year old son, and a 21 year old daughter--it's creepy.
The implication that my son--who has seen me go through hell and high Water with cancer and this gastric bypass--would even think about looking at my breasts is disgusting. This can only come from a woman with no children. The PA is probably like 35 (I am 44), no wedding ring. Normally, I wouldn't even mention any of that because I fully believe in living my own life and others live theirs but for f*cks sake, please don't foist your sick thoughts on me.
I would like some thoughts on how I might handle this. I feel like I won't have the courage to say anything, for fear of being "gaslighted." But, I also feel like there is a lesson for their staff to learn. It occurred to me to write an anonymous letter to the surgeon/head of practice and give a little vague summary of what happened and advise that his staff might want to not be so catty, mean, and to stop violating HIPAA. I don't know. I just know it hurt. I'm hurt. Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.
Do not stay without doning anything othet wise it will continue. They need to be held accountable for n you shouldnt feel guilty about reporting them.....on the contraire, you came out the hurt one not them. Ok now pay back is a b#=%&$ .
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THEY SHOULD TAKE HUMANITY N EMPATHY CLASS ALSO They should take training on HIPPA PATIENT CONFIDENTIALITY FOR THEIR NEW JOB. DO YOU GUYS KNOW THAT HIPPA IS VERY STRICT ON CONFIDENTIALITY AND MANY PATIENTS HAVE TAKEN IT STRAIT TO COURT ON LAW SUITS BECAUSE OF EMPLOYEES LIKE THESE. ..N THE PATIENT HAVE WON ON ALL THE CASES REPORTED.

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Whew what a nest of hornets were aroused! Be assured you are our sister and we Bariatric Pals protect our own.-Virginia RN. What they did was so ethically wrong, we hate bullies of any kind, that was verbal bullying as well as violating HIPAA. Of all the advice I believe I prefer Orchids and Dragons. If that approach does not work, take it up a step, no surgeon wants his staff to bring discredit,on him, he is very dependant on public opinion, Bad office staff= NO Patients NO patients= No practice, at least in That Town. Hits him right in the Wallet!
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Even though you don't want to, please report the incident. How many others do they talk about? This isn't acceptable behavior at all. What if someone who isn't as strong as you were to be in your shoes? Think of the detriment this could be on their health and life.

So sorry you had to be subjected to this. :'(

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        How can you lie, like @skinnylife stated they weigh you at the surgeon's office and throughout each of your pre-op steps. There is no lying in this, everything is documented, double checked, etc.

      3. Coachthex32

        I had to gain 20 lbs. Makes no sense. High Blood Pressure, almost diabetic, and sleep issues (stop breathing in the night).

      4. Leia

        I dont think I could have if I wanted to, they'd been weighing me regularly for 6+ months before the surgery, and then again the day of.

    • Lucy81

       I don't know what to do for my birthday being that I just had weight loss surgery I know that I have a lot to be grateful for
      · 1 reply
      1. iattcom

        What would you normally do?

        Instead of planning a meal, what about an activity that you enjoy.

        If the weather is nice, plan a picnic and explain that you are not eating and will not be providing a cake instead if you wanted you could have birdseed bags that people could use to feed the birds or the ducks in a pond at the park where the picnic would be held. Everyone could bring their own lunch if they wanted to attend and you would only have to make little birdseed bags.

        If nature walks are more your style, do something along those lines and just let everyone know that for your birthday you are planning an activity and not a party. There will be no cake and ice cream if that is what they are looking for, they can just stay home.

        You could ask your friends to join you in a day of caring and you could all volunteer together somewhere either serving at a soup kitchen, helping at a shelter or a children's center or even a senior center.

    • GreenTealael

      I managed to finally break my old school manual Italian espresso maker... Is this a sign? 
      · 2 replies
      1. abefroman329

        Of what?

      2. GreenTealael

        Of what indeed. I thought at first I should give up coffee, nonsense.h Then I thought I should go out for coffee with friends more. Then I thought I should go to Italy for coffee with friends and get a new maker...

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