Stop having so many damn kids; population control, anyone?

[StrawartS 2]

Sunta, you'll love this. I'm watching the Duggars' show on A&E right now. They use PAPER PLATES.

[gadgetlady 4]

Sunta, you'll love this. I'm watching the Duggars' show on A&E right now. They use PAPER PLATES.

Ok, ok, THAT's really funny, too! Someone call Alanis Morissette!

[StrawartS 2]

Now I'm sitting here thinking about how much trash these people generate on a daily basis. And not to be gross, but these prude ass people probably don't use any flushable hygiene products, either. Just imagine the piles and piles of refuse.

[GeezerSue 7]

This is actually not an established fact. There is debate about whether Article 11 ever existed in the original text, and some indication that it didn't appear until 1930...

There is NO debate as to whether Revisionist History is rampant among the culties, though.

Article Xi MAY not have been included in Arabic, but it WAS in the English, as adopted by Congress.

[anonemouse 1]

I was reading an article today where Christmas trees were taken down @ some airport, b/c of one complaint. Is it really that serious?

Actually, someone tried to make the airport put up a menorah, in addition to the trees. It wasn't a complaint about the trees themselves. Instead of simply putting up the menorah, the airport took down all the trees. Here is the article:

Seattle airport removes Christmas trees to avoid lawsuit

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SEATAC, Washington (AP) -- All nine Christmas trees have been removed from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant Jewish menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested.

Maintenance workers boxed up the trees during the graveyard shift early Saturday, when airport bosses believed few people would notice.

"We decided to take the trees down because we didn't want to be exclusive," said airport spokeswoman Terri-Ann Betancourt. "We're trying to be thoughtful and respectful, and will review policies after the first of the year."

Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky, who made his request weeks ago, said he was appalled by the decision. He had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue if the Port of Seattle didn't add the menorah next to the trees, which had been festooned with red ribbons and bows.

"Everyone should have their spirit of the holiday. For many people the trees are the spirit of the holidays, and adding a menorah adds light to the season," said Bogomilsky, who works in Seattle at the regional headquarters for Chabad Lubavitch, a Jewish education foundation.

After consulting with lawyers, port staff believed that adding the menorah would have required adding symbols for other religions and cultures in the Northwest. The holidays are the busiest season at the airport, Betancourt said, and staff didn't have time to play cultural anthropologists.

Hanukkah begins this Friday at sundown.

"They've darkened the hall instead of turning the lights up," said Bogomilsky's lawyer, Harvey Grad. "There is a concern here that the Jewish community will be portrayed as the Grinch."

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[skyeblu79 0]

Or in this thread the Statue of Liberty holding a cross. Who's it hurting? I probably wouldn't have done it or donated towards to the fun, but who cares? Is it really that serious?

Yes. It's really that serious. I'm deeply concerned over the political clout fundamentalist groups are gaining on a daily basis. I'm deeply concerned that the president of the US is a born-again Christian who lets his religious beliefs influence our legislature. The entire world except for us views the war in Iraq as a religious war. Did you know that? Think they could be right?

I find it all really scary, but I refuse to be afraid. I won't be intimidated by the fundamentalist groups out there who flex their political muscles at every turn.

It's really easy for Christians to say "don't be so serious", because they are Christian. The statue doesn't deeply offend, hurt, and scare them like it does people of other faiths. Tell me honestly, what do you think would happen if that statue was erected holding the Quran? Seriously. What do you think would happen? Do you think people would be upset? Just a little? Do you even think fundamentalists would allow it to stand? Do you think they would be frightened by it? Would they think it was a bastardization of a symbol of the United States?

Since I don't seem to be doing a good job explaining how the statue makes me feel, let me let others speak for me. Here are some comments I found on the internet regarding the statue and why it's offensive:

(these are all quotes from other people, and are much more eloquent than anything I could write):

"To put the end on this debate though, I offer this piece of evidence. George Washington, the Father of our country, and John Adams (Second President of the USA) CLEARLY stated in the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli, “The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion.”

"The one major fallacy in your comment is that the American government was not founded on ‘Christian’ values. Some of the founding fathers where not Christian and most abhored organized religion in general. America’s founders were intellects. Modern American fundamentalist Christianity is nothing short of anti-intellectual. Thus modern fundamentalist Christianity is in opposition to what this country’s government was founded on."

"This just makes me sick. Literaly I am sick to my stomach just reading about this abomination. I feel sorry for those who must live in the area. I hope those who want to can get out.

What a terible backwards thing to do. On top of that... what an amazing ignorance of history. The people who do things like this scare me."

"Retro-viral drugs, which are extremely effective against the strain of the AIDS virus currently ravaging the African continent, cost $1 per person per day. $260,000 would provide one year of treatment to approximately 712 people. If this church had given $260,000 to battle the AIDS pandemic in Africa, the media would have noticed, and the world would have "seen their good works and [taken seriously] the Father in Heaven." Instead they squandered $260,000 of God’s money, the media noticed, the world laughed and justifiably continued to dismiss the message of Christ because of the stupidity of the message bearers."

"Give me your paycheck, your allowance, Your hard earned money yearning to be wasted, The crisp cash of your teeming wallet. Send these, the ignorant, tempest-tost to me, I lift my offering plate beside the church door!"

These are the words that came to mind when I saw this ghastly Christian monstrasity. This 72ft, quarter-million dollar freak show is compliments of the World Overcomers Outreach Ministries Church in Memphis. But they couldn’t have done it alone. All of this money came from their 12,000 members in the community who apparently couldn’t find a better use for it like poverty, drug abuse, etc. But never fear, Pastor Alton R. Williams faced the 72-foot statue and blessed the city of Memphis against disease, crime, intolerance and poverty."

"The first time I saw this I honestly thought it was a joke. Not only do these people disgust me, the downright scare me. Why not take that quarter MILLION and actually do something positive with it?"

"What is bothering us so much about it?!? It’s an explicit expression of the desire of American fundamentalists to make Christianity the official religion of America. It’s an endorsement of a theocracy over democracy. Since it is an blatant and obvious example of religious extremism."

"The statue of LIBERTY being turned into a religious symbol for a specific religion is INtolorance not tolorance.

I respect their right to free speach. But I also have the right to be offended and that is an offensive display. Its completely contrary to the concept of liberty. Its also amazing how ignorant this group is of history."

Point taken and I agree with you about some of the stuff you said. Most of the stuff you said I feel is true . But I still could care less what they do to the Statue of Liberty. My point was that I personally don't care. If they want to put the Quran in the hands of the statue of liberty so what. Some people will throw a tantrum sure, which will irritate the heck out of me. That same person probably wouldn't call the police on the neighbor that's abusing their kid, recycle, or whatever. Everybody has their cause and I have found mine. It has nothing to do w/me being a Christian. I don't discriminate.

And that person that said that church could have given $260K to people in Africa to fight AIDS. Of course, I would have done something better had that been my cause. The point is it isn't our $$ and pissing and moaning about what some church did what their $$ isn't our business. I'm not a member of that church and I doubt she is. People like that need to stop worrying about other people, and do what they can to make a difference. I applaude them for being concerned about the poor AIDS victims in Africa. I wonder how much that person donated (time or $$).

[Sunta 4]

Regarding the article, that's a quote from someone else, and I wasn't presenting it as fact, but just trying to illustrate that many people do take the statue seriously and are deeply offended by it, since the question was raised "is it really that serious?"

But whether or not he said that or he didn't, one thing I know for sure is that our founding fathers definitely were escaping what they viewed as religious persecution, or the inability to practice their own religion. I highly doubt they would condone a statue which demands the entire population of the United States throw down all other beliefs and follow an official US religion, since that's the very reason they left in the first place!

With regard to the Duggars using paper plates, I would refer back to my earlier (albiet inflammatory) statement regarding "dumb idiots".

Seriously, when the Water supply runs out, people like them are the ones to blame. I think it's more convenient and less terrifying to bury their heads in the sand and deny or just not think about something like losing our water supply, but it is coming.

In addition to being highly socially irresponsible, that family seems extremely creepy. The kind of family who seems so nice on the outside but in the back of your mins you're always wondering what really goes on behind closed doors.

Three bedrooms??? For 20 children??? I think any mental health expert, Christian or not, would agree that's highly inappropriate.

Gross.

Thank God I wasn't born into that weirdo family.

[mousecrazy 2]

It is easier to point the finger of blame than worry about what our OWN cell phones, air conditioning, gasoline, alcohol, cigarette, food, paper product, etc., comsumption is costing the earth...

That makes me wonder...what kind of "burden" do cell phones put on the earth's resources...all that infrastructure...plastic...probably taking advantage of some underdeveloped country's labor supply, too....???

[skyeblu79 0]

Actually, someone tried to make the airport put up a menorah, in addition to the trees. It wasn't a complaint about the trees themselves. Instead of simply putting up the menorah, the airport took down all the trees. Here is the article:

Oh, ok...Your article is a little different. I guess different writers. My article basically said that he thought it was offensive. The article also said that they tried to reach an agreement, but didn't give any details.

If that is all he wanted then, I have no problem with it. The article I read made it sound like he was disgusted and trying to be intolerant.

[Sunta 4]

Actually, someone tried to make the airport put up a menorah, in addition to the trees. It wasn't a complaint about the trees themselves. Instead of simply putting up the menorah, the airport took down all the trees:

Yes, because we all know how sweet and nice Christians are to the Jews all the time.

God forbid they should also be represented with a symbol of their faith along with Christmas trees.

But now when it's portrayed, everyone will say "the Jewish people forced us to take our trees down! Whine whine cry cry!" Without mentioning it's because the Christians refused to put up a menorah.

I am continually shocked at the mistreatment of people of other faiths at the hands of Christians, but I shouldn't be, since it is rampant all over the country. It's just like that statue.

Could I ask the fundamentalists here a question? And be honest! Do you truly respect other's religions and think everyone has a right to be represented equally in our nation? (ie, symbols of other faiths being displayed during the holiday season), or do you secretly, deep down, think everyone should abandon their religions and embrace Christianity since it's the "one true/real" religion, and therefor those other symbols should not be allowed to stand next to Christian ones? Do you really want a theocracy?

[skyeblu79 0]

Actually, someone tried to make the airport put up a menorah, in addition to the trees. It wasn't a complaint about the trees themselves. Instead of simply putting up the menorah, the airport took down all the trees:

Yes, because we all know how sweet and nice Christians are to the Jews all the time.

God forbid they should also be represented with a symbol of their faith along with Christmas trees.

But now when it's portrayed, everyone will say "the Jewish people forced us to take our trees down! Whine whine cry cry!" Without mentioning it's because the Christians refused to put up a menorah.

I am continually shocked at the mistreatment of people of other faiths at the hands of Christians, but I shouldn't be, since it is rampant all over the country. It's just like that statue.

Could I ask the fundamentalists here a question? And be honest! Do you truly respect other's religions and think everyone has a right to be represented equally in our nation? (ie, symbols of other faiths being displayed during the holiday season), or do you secretly, deep down, think everyone should abandon their religions and embrace Christianity since it's the "one true/real" religion, and therefor those other symbols should not be allowed to stand next to Christian ones? Do you really want a theocracy?

Just to clarify..You do know it's not all Christians right...There are so people that fit every stereotype w/every religion.

We don't even know that those people @ the airport were even Christian. They could be any religion. People do put up Christmas trees that aren't Christian.

[lisah25 3]

Oh, ok...Your article is a little different. I guess different writers. My article basically said that he thought it was offensive. The article also said that they tried to reach an agreement, but didn't give any details.

If that is all he wanted then, I have no problem with it. The article I read made it sound like he was disgusted and trying to be intolerant.

I agree with Laurend, it's my city's airport so this has been getting a fair amount of media coverage here. A rabbi wanted a menorah along with the trees, and the airport officials decided to just take the trees down since otherwise they felt they would have to include all other symbols. I read an article yesterday that said the Rabbi in question wasn't happy about the decision, it's not what he intended at all.

[skyeblu79 0]

I agree with Laurend, it's my city's airport so this has been getting a fair amount of media coverage here. A rabbi wanted a menorah along with the trees, and the airport officials decided to just take the trees down since otherwise they felt they would have to include all other symbols. I read an article yesterday that said the Rabbi in question wasn't happy about the decision, it's not what he intended at all.

I wasn't disagreeing w/Laurend. I was just saying the article I read sounded different. If that's what happened, I think he had a valid point. Let them be stubborn and have no Christmas trees then.

[lisah25 3]

I wasn't disagreeing w/Laurend. I was just saying the article I read sounded different. If that's what happened, I think he had a valid point. Let them be stubborn and have no Christmas trees then.

I didn't word that well, didn't mean to imply you were.

There is a lot of intesting discussion about this one, and a lot of differing stories.

[skyeblu79 0]

I didn't word that well, didn't mean to imply you were.

There is a lot of intesting discussion about this one, and a lot of differing stories.

I understand..I just didn't want you to think I agreed w/the airport.