The unspoken rule

[The Greater Fool 1,952]

3 hours ago, SleeveToBypass2023 said:

This is more of what I was looking for when I posted my question. I was, in no way, judging anyone for what they do and don't like. Personally, I couldn't get past the taste or smell of alcohol enough to get to the point where I liked it enough to do it everyday, or even every once in a while. What I was more curious about was if it was that way for others of if they liked it right from the beginning.

I know some people in my everyday life that hate the taste but drink it for the effects it gives, and that's more important to them than how it actually tastes. I know some who actually like the taste. And some who don't care either way but drink it in social settings more to fit in than anything else. So I was wondering how those on here that refuse to give it up (or even those that have no real opinion on it but still drink just because) got there. Do they have an addiction to it? Do they just enjoy the taste? Do they not care either way?

I always wonder the same thing about cigarettes. I hate the taste and smell, the idea that if I smoke, others could breathe in the 2nd hand smoke and it could hurt them, how it makes clothes/skin/cars/furniture/breath smell, etc... My mom smoked like a chimney and I never understood it. I'm not judging anyone who smokes, either. I literally just don't understand it.

< Courteously snipped for space >

When it comes to virtually any human behavior or endeavor there are people that from the very first exposure love it more than life itself and those that believe it is the worst thing in existence and can't grasp the appeal. Many of the former simply can't understand the latter's aversion and vice versa. There are people that take up behaviors or endeavors they hate in order to fit in just as there people that avoid behaviors or endeavors to fit in. And those that do or don't do things to not fit in.

We all only have the actual experience of what is going on in our heads. We have no experience of what other people experience in their heads. This is a major stumbling point of being human. If another person seems to love a behavior or experience as much as I do I still can't know their experience. Nor can I experience their hate or disgust. We are each stuck in our own heads.

Empathy can only get us so far. Empathy allows us to intellectually understand that people have reasons for doing things just as I have reasons for doing similar or analogous things. Empathy doesn't cause me to experience what another person experiences.

So, while I intellectually understand there are different strokes for different folks, I will never experience those different strokes the same as different folks.

People are freaks. Well, not me of course.

Good luck,

Tek

[BlondePatriotInCDA 224]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:42 AM, SleeveToBypass2023 said:

Not judging at all, but how do you guys tolerate the taste and smell of alcohol? I don't get the joy in it, the joy in being buzzed, in daily drinking. Like...why? Again, not slamming your choices, but how did you get to the point where it was enjoyable enough to do it often?

I drank 3x as a teen and absolutely despised it (did it because I was at parties and was trying to fit it). Then as an adult, I figured I'd willingly give it another try, to see if my opinion changed at all. It did. I hated it even more. Never touched the stuff again.

I read through this thread, and honestly, I don't understand why you guys like drinking so much and why some refuse to give it (and the calories) up after the surgery. How did you get to the point that you liked drinking that much? Just the smell of alcohol is enough to make me leave.

Just as some people like the taste of coffee, juice, milk etc., others don't while some like and enjoy the taste alcohol. We don't all enjoy the same tastes!

Before surgery, I'd enjoy an occasional glass of wine. To be honest I'm afraid of my bodies reaction to it now, so I haven't enjoyed a glass yet....yet. The smell and taste of a nicely grown and blended wine is devine, each having nose notes - sweet, flowers, rain, fruits, oak...that come through in taste can be amazing if you take the time to enjoy it. Yet, I detest gin, finding it reminiscent of rubbing alcohol... some love gin..some ppl love the flavor of cucumber bleh..it makes me shudder!

Although, I never worry about becoming addicted to alcohol, even with a family history. I believe either you have the predisposition for additions or you don't. I'm to much of a control freak and to me alcohol takes that away. I suppose you could say my "addiction" is maintaining control as best I can! We are all different, thankfully.

Edited April 14 by BlondePatriotInCDA

[ms.sss 14,679]

2 hours ago, The Greater Fool said:

When it comes to virtually any human behavior or endeavor there are people that from the very first exposure love it more than life itself and those that believe it is the worst thing in existence and can't grasp the appeal. Many of the former simply can't understand the latter's aversion and vice versa. There are people that take up behaviors or endeavors they hate in order to fit in just as there people that avoid behaviors or endeavors to fit in. And those that do or don't do things to not fit in.

We all only have the actual experience of what is going on in our heads. We have no experience of what other people experience in their heads. This is a major stumbling point of being human. If another person seems to love a behavior or experience as much as I do I still can't know their experience. Nor can I experience their hate or disgust. We are each stuck in our own heads.

Empathy can only get us so far. Empathy allows us to intellectually understand that people have reasons for doing things just as I have reasons for doing similar or analogous things. Empathy doesn't cause me to experience what another person experiences.

So, while I intellectually understand there are different strokes for different folks, I will never experience those different strokes the same as different folks.

People are freaks. Well, not me of course.

Good luck,

Tek

@The Greater Fool, if you're haven't already said before, i heart you. u always so calm and wise and funny. the 3 things i admire most about others.

ok, now that i got that love fest out of my system...

@BlondePatriotInCDA, further to your discussion of the smells of different alcohol... now for me, the smell of what i weirdly all "brown liquor" always made me gag a little..."brown liquor" is what i call whiskeys, cognacs, brandy, scotch, dark rums, aged tequilas, etc. for those keeping score i only prefer to drink clear liquors (vodka, gin, clear tequila and rum) and red wine.

anyway, my Mr. prefers the brown liquors...and over the years (decades!), i have come to not hate as much the smell of them (i still don't drink them tho lol). in a weird way i associate the smell with him and since i kinda like him, i seem to not be hostile to the smell as much.

i mean i wont douse myself in it as a perfume or anything, but still.

just a useless anecdote i guess.

(i have no real reason to bring this up other than to make an attempt to lighten the mood on this thread 🤷🏻‍♀️)

[BlondePatriotInCDA 224]

11 minutes ago, ms.sss said:

@The Greater Fool, if you're haven't already said before, i heart you. u always so calm and wise and funny. the 3 things i admire most about others.

ok, now that i got that love fest out of my system...

@BlondePatriotInCDA, further to your discussion of the smells of different alcohol... now for me, the smell of what i weirdly all "brown liquor" always made me gag a little..."brown liquor" is what i call whiskeys, cognacs, brandy, scotch, dark rums, aged tequilas, etc. for those keeping score i only prefer to drink clear liquors (vodka, gin, clear tequila and rum) and red wine.

anyway, my Mr. prefers the brown liquors...and over the years (decades!), i have come to not hate as much the smell of them (i still don't drink them tho lol). in a weird way i associate the smell with him and since i kinda like him, i seem to not be hostile to the smell as much.

i mean i wont douse myself in it as a perfume or anything, but still.

just a useless anecdote i guess.

(i have no real reason to bring this up other than to make an attempt to lighten the mood on this thread 🤷🏻‍♀️)

I feel the same way about the "brown" liquor, its too harsh to me....but I do enjoy vodka, darker beers and wines. My ex drank gin and I couldn't stomach the smell...(not why he's my ex tho 😏), it made me gag when I'd smell his breath. Plus the dark liquors give me headaches IF and when I could get past the taste!

As far as "lightening up the mood" you can try, but its pretty difficult when people are discussing addictions...but I appreciate your attempting too!

What?? No "love fest" for me? 😭🙍🏼‍♀️

[summerseeker 1,852]

On 4/14/2024 at 1:10 AM, BlondePatriotInCDA said:

"Something and lots of soda seems to work best for me. My husband calls me his cheap date, Cheap means different here." What's it mean in the UK?

I'm fairly versed in U.K colloquialisms (been to the UK a lot - friends live there) and I'm not aware of a different meaning! I'd love to know. 😁

Hehe, you are welcome, cheap means inexpensive here. As in - one drink and I am drunk

[Arabesque 6,486]

10 hours ago, ms.sss said:

@BlondePatriotInCDA, further to your discussion of the smells of different alcohol... now for me, the smell of what i weirdly all "brown liquor" always made me gag a little..."brown liquor" is what i call whiskeys, cognacs, brandy, scotch, dark rums, aged tequilas, etc. for those keeping score i only prefer to drink clear liquors (vodka, gin, clear tequila and rum) and red wine.

Can’t stand the smell of rum. It’s just blech! And tequila. No, no, no. That came from a hideous experience. I had to clean up after my then boyfriend was violently ill after heavily imbibing tequila. It’s been 30+ years but smelling or even seeing a bottle & the horrors of that night/morning come back. I’m emotional scarred from it.

Enjoy whisky though. Neat. No ice, no Water, nothing added.

[SleeveToBypass2023 1,830]

I'm glad to see so many talking about what they do and don't like and why. That was more the purpose of my posts. Maybe it came off a bit harsh to some, but that wasn't my intent. For example, I tend to get a little testy when I see posts from people who had and sabotaged their surgeries, but I try to remember that it's not my post, not my journey, and my feelings about their post are mine and not theirs. I can't get mad at them because of how I feel about what they posted. No, I'm not saying anyone on this thread is sabotaging their surgery, it's just an example of what annoys me in posts, and how I just skip them instead of posting about how it upset me that they did this or said that.

I'm sad my post made some feel a certain type of way, but I can't help but wonder why they felt that way. Did my post strike a nerve? If so, why? I wasn't judging anyone. I never have and never will. My simple curiosity about how one starts liking, or even getting past the taste and smell of, alcohol wasn't meant as a trigger or to upset. But the defensiveness of some about it makes me wonder if those who took what I said as an attack maybe feel some type of way about what, and how much, they drink and projected it onto me...

Either way, we should be able to ask questions here, have open discussions, and not get lost in our feelings about it. People ask hard stuff. If it makes you feel a certain way, maybe skip the post. I don't know. This is the first time I've ever felt like this on this forum. I have to take a step back now and rethink my presence here. Sorry if I triggered and upset you guys, but maybe you should look inward and figure out why my questions bothered you so much....

[BabySpoons 531]

I was cleared to drink alcohol 3 months after RNY surgery which coincided with the 4th of July holiday here in the USA last year. My nutritionist suggested vodka and SF cranberry juice. I nursed that one drink all night long sitting around the campfire at the lake that night.

I will admit that I'm a bit of a control freak too, so I was careful not to drink enough to do anything stupid. And TBH I enjoyed the feeling it gave and although it tasted good, I still missed my usual go to frozen strawberry Margarita or red beer.

But on the average, I only drink a few times a year and can't see that changing because of WLS.

[FifiLux 96]

5 hours ago, SleeveToBypass2023 said:

I'm glad to see so many talking about what they do and don't like and why. That was more the purpose of my posts. Maybe it came off a bit harsh to some, but that wasn't my intent. For example, I tend to get a little testy when I see posts from people who had and sabotaged their surgeries, but I try to remember that it's not my post, not my journey, and my feelings about their post are mine and not theirs. I can't get mad at them because of how I feel about what they posted. No, I'm not saying anyone on this thread is sabotaging their surgery, it's just an example of what annoys me in posts, and how I just skip them instead of posting about how it upset me that they did this or said that.

I'm sad my post made some feel a certain type of way, but I can't help but wonder why they felt that way. Did my post strike a nerve? If so, why? I wasn't judging anyone. I never have and never will. My simple curiosity about how one starts liking, or even getting past the taste and smell of, alcohol wasn't meant as a trigger or to upset. But the defensiveness of some about it makes me wonder if those who took what I said as an attack maybe feel some type of way about what, and how much, they drink and projected it onto me...

Either way, we should be able to ask questions here, have open discussions, and not get lost in our feelings about it. People ask hard stuff. If it makes you feel a certain way, maybe skip the post. I don't know. This is the first time I've ever felt like this on this forum. I have to take a step back now and rethink my presence here. Sorry if I triggered and upset you guys, but maybe you should look inward and figure out why my questions bothered you so much....

Thanks for the clarification as to me it came across in an accusatory way but I see now in your later posts where you are coming from. I just read it that you were accusing anyone who even had an infrequent drink as to be ashamed of themselves and I think in life being on the larger size we have probably had enough shame thrown at us.

Anyway, as I already said, we are all adults and the choices we make are on ourselves. Everyone has different levels of likes, dislikes and tolerances.

I can't stand the taste of rum on its own but that goes back to it being the first drink I ever had that I got drunk on at 13yrs of age - a mistake where I was given my mothers rum and coke drink at a party multiple times during the day instead of just my own coke as the barman thought I was being a good child and getting drinks for my mum! Yuck, I still remember being so ill that evening - I was the same green colour as my parents lovely avocado coloured bathroom 😂

Personally I have gone through a lot with this surgery that there is no way I am messing it up by drinking to the extent I would have before (just a good social life or bottle of wine at home, no mad benders etc). I will just have the occasional drink when out socially, like Friday I had 2/3 of one glass of red wine and that took two hours to drink and was enough for me.

[ms.sss 14,679]

8 hours ago, SleeveToBypass2023 said:

Either way, we should be able to ask questions here, have open discussions

forgive me, i thought that was what we were doing.

[BlondePatriotInCDA 224]

21 hours ago, summerseeker said:

Hehe, you are welcome, cheap means inexpensive here. As in - one drink and I am drunk

Lol it means the same thing here in the U.S...its why I was wondering if there was a different meaning I was unaware of! My husband says I'm a cheap date now since all I order to eat is off the children's menu or an appetizer! As far as a cheap drinker..I've always been a light weight drinker aka "cheap" date..I start getting numb faced at two drinks!

4 hours ago, ms.sss said:

forgive me, i thought that was what we were doing.

I also thought that's what ppl were doing here...did I miss something?

I think we all fall into the text is hard to interpret emotions or angles...where ppl are coming from or what they're asking/responding to. I, unfortunately, am very analytical fact driven and dry with a side of as my husband says "Ice Queen" sprinkled in with a side of smart arse..so ppl take it wrong because its text and quite possibly in person too 😋. Understanding that I'm taken as being "angry, uptight or questioning of ppl or I lack emotions" I tend to think most are generally just asking questions with no ill intent knowing I'm taken wrong a lot (even on these forums)..so I try and give ppl the benefit of the doubt. Its also why I use emoji jic I come off wrong or confrontational.

Unfortunately, some read into peoples statements/post; emotions and textual intent that just aren't there (or maybe they are and I just chose to ignore it or not see it). Either way, I personally haven't seen ANY hostility on this particular topic just as you said people discussing a difficult topic and asking questions -nothing more..so I agree!

Edited April 15 by BlondePatriotInCDA

[Melissa89 9]

On 4/11/2024 at 7:13 AM, jparadigm said:

So...

I'm told I have to wait a minimum of 6 months to reengage in drinking fun...Which I was totally OK with in the beginning and still am, I just want to know about others out there who have drank alcohol PO and their experiences. I'm no daily drinker but I am a weekend warrior lol. I honestly can't wait for summer to be able to have a drink with the fam. I am absolutely aware of drinking being a conflict with my journey but it's something I've discussed with my care team and I'm not ready to fully give up on alcohol yet. I'm also aware of the "addiction" that can develop by drinking and I am NOT at all worried for that lol. Forgive me if this is triggering to some.

Hi! Happy to answer this. I am 10 months post op. Had my first glass of champagne 6 weeks out. Sipped it for hours. You will get hit by the alcohol quickly. Alcohol will get you twice as drunk for the same amount due to starvation / not drinking for ages.
i am a social weekend drinker and attend lots of events. I can say since then I will have a drink or two every weekend. Without shame or issue. I simply count my alcohol calories. I have lost 30% of my body weight and weigh in the low 60s now. You have to live your life - I’m not into banning foods and rules. This is the beginning of the rest of your life. You have to have fun and enjoy it. Say you drink a bit and it takes you an extra month to reach your target? Who cares. At least it’s sustainable. Don’t feel ashamed for having a drink or two if that’s what you want to do. Just remember you will barely drink anything and feel the full effects. Lol. Best of luck!

Edited April 16 by Melissa89