I know this was mentioned before here in the Vegans/Vegetarians forums and I wanted to maybe start this thread for all things pertaining to the book that Dr. Garth Davis authored, Proteinaholic. So far I'm on chapter 6 of it and I'm just amazed with how sound it is and all the studies that are out there to support why we don't need such a high amount of protein, and why it's a culprit of obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.... There's just so much to talk about if anyone wants to get into discussion. Now, this thread IS NOT going to be for debate. I do not want anyone coming on here advocating high protein and what they "know" and debating with any of us who are or evolving into plant based, vegans or vegetarians. I want to share the things I've learned from the book and if anyone wants to challenge those, READ THE BOOK FIRST, and then you can come and talk about it. If you don't or haven't read the book, feel free to read the things that will be posted...and do your own homework to find these facts/truths out for yourself. I literally don't have time to do a protein ping pong match...so don't start one. You will be ignored.

Okay, with that said and out of the way, the first thing I want to mention is that Dr. Davis actually dispels the myths about protein and why our bodies don't need so much. It is not an opinionated book, it's a science/fact book. It makes TOTAL sense. He is quite comical too. The parts where he plays out his doctor/patient dialogues hit me the most...because I can relate to how I was educated about protein being what we all need. I had the same mentalities as he did regarding it, but after I started watching documentaries on plant based diets for the past couple of years, I've slowly become open to all the health benefits of eating plant based. But now, even though I knew plant based is great for the health, I didn't know that the protein component was/is what was causing so many problems in my health, my husband's, etc. Now, I've got science and truth to understand the premise of protein. The history of why, what Dr Davis talks about, we western society pick apart whole foods and live based off of macronutrients. Now, it just boggles me why we do that. The other thing that rings true and is nice knowing, is that he is a bariatric surgeon too. He knows what he's coaching/telling his patients. He knows that he was not a nutritionist, didn't know a single thing, but the one hour of nutrition studies in his school days, but he took the time to dive into history, studies, reports, etc to bring light to why western society is so unhealthy, and most of it is based on animal protein.

Wow.

Read the book!

Here's another book you all might enjoy: The China Study by Dr. T. Colin Campbell. One of the largest, most comprehensive studies ever done on nutrition. Someone mentioned Dr. McDougall, his approach (along with his peers like Dr. Neal Barnard of Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn and his son Rip Esselstyn of Engine 2, Dr. Joel Fuhrman) started from this research. Of course they all went an to do their own studies on patients and continued to prove that a WFPB diet is the best option for optimal health and longevity.

Check out the book! It's on Audible too.

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by fruitandveggies

10 hours ago, Apple1 said:

I think I had tunnel vision and just assumed I need low carb so I didn't even seriously consider any other alternatives.

My husband is like this. He thinks he needs to eat low carb but his HbA1c doesn't seem to be impressed.

6 hours ago, fruitandveggies said:

Let me just say having been vegan for over a decade--I'm still glad I got WLS! It's so incredibly easy to get vegan junk food and to just eat way too much, healthy or not. I credit being vegan with having no health problems and looking younger than my peers, but I think the combo of both WFPB and WLS is the best for people who have serious eating/obesity issues.

perfectly said!!! Before WLS. I was always hungry, always craving, never full, never satisfied. Now I can choose an eating plan and happily stick to it.

This. WLS takes the edge of the hunger and prevents getting these seconds and thirds simply because you're not feeling full. Being satisfied and/or full with one slice of bread and a bit of fruit or salad is something I experience as liberating. Before WLS it was three slices and fruit or salad on top.

15 hours ago, Apple1 said:

think I am ready to put this to the test. As I phase out meat and add more fruits, vegetables, and whole grains I will break out my meter and test pre-meal, 1 hour, and 2 hours post-meal. I will report my finding back to this thread. I figure it will help any others who might be considering a Whole Foods plant based diet.

The fact of less fat in your bloodstream that will have your body processing carbohydrates the right way, this should go VERY well. Also take in the fact that you aren't considered diabetic anymore. Right? Your bs numbers have been great since the weight loss, right? Diabetes, type II is a reversible, curable disease, that's why so many with fat loss get off their meds, etc. So, testing now without diabetes will show different numbers, albeit better, but won't play the same as if you were having high bs and making the switch. I'm still just as curious as you are though.

15 hours ago, Cherbear416 said:

Hi group! Surgery in just over a week, and wondering what you ate the first couple weeks out of surgery?

I was doing plant based a few weeks before surgery and then after, unfortunately, I did all the animal protein stuff. I didn't discover this information until maybe four weeks ago? Berry78 said it, you'll need to rely on your shakes

But im still wondering, why the hype of so much protein after wls, specifically the sleeve? According to someone posts here (sorry, I don't remember who) Didnt Dr Davis say it's baseless dogma?

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by Newme17

8 hours ago, christmasinmay said:

@Newme17 really interested in this book! Will order it today! I was trying to move to a more plant based diet before surgery but then tossed the idea thinking it wasn't something that was going to work with vsg.

It's working, even with me. I got in to it about 2 months post op though. I'm glad I did too. I feel better than ever. ?

8 hours ago, fruitandveggies said:

Also, I love that you're sharing all the Nutrition Facts vids on here! Are you totally obsessed with Dr. Gregor now like I am?? I mention his name at least once a day!

I even got my husband quoting him. ? I'm enjoying Dr Greger's website. Thank you!!!

8 hours ago, fruitandveggies said:

It's so incredibly easy to get vegan junk food and to just eat way too much

Sounds like it. The more you eat the simple carbs the more you want them.

I've noticed the more healthy I eat, the less craving I have for something that isn't healthy. So lately it's been kale. I ate kale for breakfast the other day, probably eat it again today. ?

8 hours ago, fruitandveggies said:

Here's another book you all might enjoy: The China Study by Dr. T. Colin Campbell. One of the largest, most comprehensive studies ever done on nutrition. Someone mentioned Dr. McDougall, his approach (along with his peers like Dr. Neal Barnard of Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn and his son Rip Esselstyn of Engine 2, Dr. Joel Fuhrman) started from this research. Of course they all went an to do their own studies on patients and continued to prove that a WFPB diet is the best option for optimal health and longevity.

Check out the book! It's on Audible too.

First heard about it through the Forks over Knives documentary. I should get it as well.

59 minutes ago, Newme17 said:

The fact of less fat in your bloodstream that will have your body processing carbohydrates the right way, this should go VERY well. Also take in the fact that you aren't considered diabetic anymore. Right? Your bs numbers have been great since the weight loss, right? Diabetes, type II is a reversible, curable disease, that's why so many with fat loss get off their meds, etc. So, testing now without diabetes will show different numbers, albeit better, but won't play the same as if you were having high bs and making the switch. I'm still just as curious as you are though.

I think this will depend on just how damaged my pancreas is. Diabetes is a progressive disease and most people with type 2 diabetes progress to the point where their pancreas does not produce enough insulin on its own no matter what their diet is. I don't know how long I had diabetes before I was diagnosed, so I had it for at least 4 years and possibly much longer. Everything I have read says that the sooner you have the WLS after being diagnosed the higher the probability that you will stay in remission. I am praying that my decision to go plant based will further help this by eliminating the fat store in my muscles and making them less resistant to insulin.

The good news is that WLS has seemingly put it in remission. I haven't seen a bs number over 115 since two days after surgery. My last blood work was in April and my A1C was 6.8. A normal non-diabetic A1C would be 4.5-5.9. When I was eating a normal standard american diet my A1C was 11.2 !!!! My doctor threatened me with insulin shots and that is why I decided to try the low-carb diet back in December 2016. It did work to lower my numbers, but I was still on 2 different medications also.

I am nervous about changing my diet because eating low carb has been the only way I have been able to control my bs. However, the research and data are showing me that if I continue to eat a high fat, high protein diet eventually my insulin will run out because that diet requires my pancreas to pump out more insulin.

If I am understanding what I am reading correctly, by eating low carb I am kind of artificially lowering my bs, but I haven't cured the real problem which is fat blocking the receptors in my cells. This whole food plant based diet will clean the fat out of my cells and also lower the amount of insulin my pancreas has to produce.

I will definitely report my findings. I am excited to try this out and experience all of the other health benefits this type of diet will bring. Sorry for the long post...lol

9 hours ago, fruitandveggies said:

Let me just say having been vegan for over a decade--I'm still glad I got WLS! It's so incredibly easy to get vegan junk food and to just eat way too much, healthy or not.

There are many un-healthy obese vegetarians and vegans in my church for this very reason. They still eat a ton of high sugar foods!

6 hours ago, summerset said:

My husband is like this. He thinks he needs to eat low carb but his HbA1c doesn't seem to be impressed.

Low-carb did work for me, but I also had to take 2 different medications along with not eating more than 30g of carbs a day. I was filling up on protein and fat. Now that I think about it, I realize just how dumb that was. I wasn't really curing my diabetes and I was depriving my body of important nutrients. Not to mention possibly clogging my arteries or increasing risks for cancers.

I was doing plant based a few weeks before surgery and then after, unfortunately, I did all the animal protein stuff. I didn't discover this information until maybe four weeks ago? Berry78 said it, you'll need to rely on your shakes
But im still wondering, why the hype of so much protein after wls, specifically the sleeve? According to someone posts here (sorry, I don't remember who) Didnt Dr Davis say it's baseless dogma?

That is exactly what he replied to me. I asked why the pre and postop diets rely so heavily on animal protein, and what is the physiological benefit. He said "None. Dogma."

9 hours ago, Apple1 said:

f I am understanding what I am reading correctly, by eating low carb I am kind of artificially lowering my bs, but I haven't cured the real problem which is fat blocking the receptors in my cells. This whole food plant based diet will clean the fat out of my cells and also lower

Exactly that!!! No need for apologies, I loved reading every bit of it. I learned something too. So it's all good. I'm happy for you, ya know? Just genuinely happy for ya. ?

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by Newme17