who supports right to choose

[luluc 6]

Adoption can be a great thing, have a little fella on the way (June) that we are adopting from a family member. It is a "very good thing" to have a choice, and this Pro Choicer is in favor of what ever alternative works best for that individual at that time. Safe & Legal are paramount.

Nina - didn't see many Pro Life answers to your question, as someone who has gone down the IVF path (unsuccessfully) - My only request would be to submit the unused embryos to Stem Cell Research if I had any, another legal debate I have issues with.

Lulu

[nina874 48]

Hi Luluc,

Thanks for answering!

Just wanted to say congratulations on the impending arrival of your little fella, I did 3 rounds of IVF too and it is fairly harrowing isnt it. I was torn with what to do if I had any in the freezer (ah the innocence when you are starting out), no such luck I barely had enough to transfer each time! So sorry that your treatment failed ((hug)) but now you have a little bundle to look forwards to, maybe that was what the fates had planned for you all along!

Anyhoo just wanted to say hello from one IVF survivor to another!

Nina x

[green 6]

Diplomacy is something I am asked to work on by the spousal unit, which I think Green does a good deal in her dialogue. BJean, I do share similar thoughts on this subject, and the hole in my cheek sometime burns when drinking my Fav Fab Cab from biting it often. My rabid impulses have gotten the best of me, I try to keep them in check "most" of the time:)

Thanks for those very kind words. The truth is that I am often not at all diplomatic when it comes to dealing with folks in reality land, especially when I am related to them. :rolleyes2:

[Ceradad 10]

I just found this and will state my reasons as to why I voted Pro Life.

First, I was adopted in 1970. Roe v. Wade was not in existence at that time, but my birthmother still could have gotten a "back alley" abortion had she chosen. She was an RN. Still may be, have never looked her up.

2nd, my older sister was adopted in 1968. Again, same reasons as above.

Lastly, my daughter is adopted as is her birthmother. There are choices out there other than abortion. There are thousands of couples who go through infertility that would jump at the chance for an unwanted child to give them a good home in a loving enviroment.

I know, I know, it's a womans body and she has the right to do with it as she chooses. But, why doesn't the child have a say in it. That child has a right to be born and live it's life. In most cases, the woman made the choice to have unprotected sex. Why not make a "bad" situation good by going through the 9 mos of pregnancy and give a loving couple their wish to become parents?

That's just my $.02 worth. I'm off my soapbox.

[Blund 0]

....and what about when the rapist wants VISITATION of his child??!!!!!!

Can you imagine! Crazier things have happened I'm sure!

Tanderson nailed it.

What if the "anti-choice" (which is what I prefer to call them, instead of "pro-life". I love all kinds of life, but want my own choice) people would help pay for/raise the crack babies born and left behind and/or abused?

And why are we on this. It will get very heated. If this is about the election, I don't base my vote for president on a single issue, even this one.

[Ceradad 10]

....and what about when the rapist wants VISITATION of his child??!!!!!!

Can you imagine! Crazier things have happened I'm sure!

Tanderson nailed it.

What if the "anti-choice" (which is what I prefer to call them, instead of "pro-life". I love all kinds of life, but want my own choice) people would help pay for/raise the crack babies born and left behind and/or abused?

And why are we on this. It will get very heated. If this is about the election, I don't base my vote for president on a single issue, even this one.

Ok, first off, I gave my reasons for why I feel the way I feel.

Secondly, the state of MN has the right idea. Their law states that a father KNOWS of the consequences are of having unprotected sex. Therefore, he has 30 days after 9 mos of the sex to register with the state to find out if the woman has had a baby. If he does not do this, it is considered abandonment and he gives up all rights as a father.

[Blund 0]

Sorry Ceradad, I was on a different page when I posted my reply, so it really wasn't directed toward you. But I did just read your post, and I have never heard of the MN law (I'm in MI) but it sounds interesting. And it sounds like it solves several potential problems with lawsuits, abortion, adoption, custody, etc. Any idea how well its been working?

[Ceradad 10]

Sorry Ceradad, I was on a different page when I posted my reply, so it really wasn't directed toward you. But I did just read your post, and I have never heard of the MN law (I'm in MI) but it sounds interesting. And it sounds like it solves several potential problems with lawsuits, abortion, adoption, custody, etc. Any idea how well its been working?

Understood, Blund. I took no real offense. This is an issue that brings on alot of debate. I'm a big boy (not for too much longer though:biggrin:) and can take it.

As for the law, I don't know overall, but this came up in our adoption of our daughter. We only met Ashley, Cera's birthmother, and her dad. The birthfather was from another state. We could tell there was alot of issues with the birthfather as he was apparently much older that Ashley (she was 17 at the time) and what had happened. We found out about the law at that point. It was a long 30 days after she was born, but we didn't have much doubt about it.

As for rapists, he would have to admit he did the crime to be able to see the child. Not very likely to happen unless caught. Then, he would have to be aware of the pregnancy, or register with the state knowing of the law. Not likely.

[Blund 0]

Hopefully the law protects adoptive families. I just HATE hearing about a birth parent showing up down the road wanting to be involved or take back the kid! I would think that possiblity makes people afraid to adopt, at least here in the US.

[Ceradad 10]

Yes, ultimately that is what it is intended for. We found out about the law after Ashley chose us and we had known about the situation with the birthfather. The adoption agency told us the birthfather had 30 days after the birth to register with the state. If he didn't, he was considered to have abandoned Cera and gave up all parental rights. It was a loooooooong 30 days for us.

[green 6]

I just found this and will state my reasons as to why I voted Pro Life.

First, I was adopted in 1970. Roe v. Wade was not in existence at that time, but my birthmother still could have gotten a "back alley" abortion had she chosen. She was an RN. Still may be, have never looked her up.

2nd, my older sister was adopted in 1968. Again, same reasons as above.

Lastly, my daughter is adopted as is her birthmother. There are choices out there other than abortion. There are thousands of couples who go through infertility that would jump at the chance for an unwanted child to give them a good home in a loving enviroment.

I know, I know, it's a womans body and she has the right to do with it as she chooses. But, why doesn't the child have a say in it. That child has a right to be born and live it's life. In most cases, the woman made the choice to have unprotected sex. Why not make a "bad" situation good by going through the 9 mos of pregnancy and give a loving couple their wish to become parents?

That's just my $.02 worth. I'm off my soapbox.

Ceredad, for what it is worth, even though I occupy an opposing position, I really appreciate reading your take on this situation.

The situation is indeed a complex one and this boils down in part to the fact that although it is understood that here in the west it is now recognised that all women should enjoy the same rights and freedoms as men, this biz of engaging in sexual activity will always prove to be perilous for women. Of course this is because sexual pleasure might result in pregnancy. Reproduction is an entirely assymmetrical biological function and it is the female who is inevitably left on the hook.

Men who are pro-life wonder what the problem is. They say that a pregnancy only eats up 9 months of a grrl's life and then she can off-load the infant onto a sterile couple. In fact going through a pregnancy is more complicated than spending 3/4 of a year side-lined. A woman's body goes through a series of complex physiological changes. All of these are stressful. She will feel a great deal of physical discomfort. There will be a phase of nausea in the first trimester and the final trimester will usher in a need to piss so frequently that the woman will not be able to sleep throughout the night. Her belly will be extended and she may well end up with stretch marks. If she has a vaginal birth her vagina will be stretched and if she has a Caesarian she will be cut up. She will gain weight and her pelvis will spread. The breasts, too, will bloat with milk. These are just the physical symptoms, ones which women who do want to have children will embrace as part of the process. There are also psychological symptoms due to those raging hormones.

You must understand that the pregnant woman's body will never, ever return to its pre-pregnancy state and that she will be likely to experience further fall out from her pregnancy after menopause. A woman who has had children is more likely to suffer from bladder control problems, and to experience a dropped uterus, than one who has never had children.

Pregnancy is also expensive. The pregnant woman needs medical care. She also needs a new wardrobe. And she will be missing work time.

I have great respect for those women who do choose to follow through with their pregnancies. At the same time I can understand why women will opt to terminate. Bluntly put, I believe that each woman must be free to decide for herself whose needs are the most important. I know that when I found out that I was pregnant I opted for an abortion.

[peaches9 3]

I still wonder what all the debate is about...

its simple, its between a Woman and her Doctor, end of story....

Everyone else, especially Men should mind their own business.

[BJean 16]

Choosing adoption is not ALWAYS the best answer. I believe I understand your feelings on the issue, Ceredad, and of course your feelings are valid and important.

However as much as anti-choice people would like to believe that adoption is a perfect solution to a very difficult problem, it just is not. To compel fertile women to have children because some women cannot have children is completely unfair and completely wrong.

If a woman wants to have a baby that is the result of an unwanted and unplanned pregnancy, she is completely and totally free to do so. Thankfully there are many women who make that choice. But people have no right to force women to have children.

This issue is way too important to everyone involved, including the baby, for the government or religious people or people of certain beliefs to make the decisions for all women on whether or not to bear unwanted children.

This is an issue that is being discussed because it is so very important. There are many people who feel that it is within their rights to protect unborn children. There are many more people who believe that it is a personal issue, to be dealt with by the affected people, not an issue to be decided by elected officials, supreme court justices or their next door neighbor. (Good point, Peaches!)

We better all be prepared to deal with it big time if a Republican gets elected. In fact, our current president may have already put the wheels in motion to go forward on this issue. We should be discussing it and we should be deciding exactly how we feel about it. Do you want your government to be run by people who want to make these kinds of personal decisions for you?

[Sunwyse 1]

The only thing I'm going to say on this issue is:

I'm not forcing you to have an abortion, don't force me to keep a child I might not want.

[gadgetlady 4]

The only thing I'm going to say on this issue is:

I'm not forcing you to have an abortion, don't force me to keep a child I might not want.

Wow. Children aren't commodities we buy or sell, or pets we keep or put down. They are human beings. You have a right to do whatever you want with your body. But when your rights infringe on those of another, in this case the child, then others should have the right to step in and protect the child -- especially since he or she can't speak for himself or herself.