The Uncomfortable Truth....

[No game 14,436]

I'm sorry about your brother, Laura. I know all to well what kind of pain that leaves for people who were left behind. My brother also took his own life twelve years ago and I've been angry with him since. I never really got to grieve for him because somebody needed to be the "strong one", and my parents (understandably) fell apart. I'm sure that as I continue to work on all my crap, I'm going to go through that grieving process. It kind of scares me, to be totally honest, I'm comfortable with anger, I know anger. Vulnerability freaks me the fucked out and makes me want to run and hide.

Yes the strong one... That is the other part of it.

We may be fat in everyone's eyes but we are the strongest most times..

I had to do everything in the days after my brothers death. My mom put her self into the hospital because she was dying again.

I get mad at my brother sometimes too.

But because I wish that he could of found his strength and stuck it out. Plus he is missing out on a great niece and nephew..

[BethinPA 305]

What are you thinking? Might help both of us! Cause if I could figure this out, I'd be confident enough to tackle world peace next!

Lol! achieving world peace might be easier..

Just the simple thing you said about it not providing pleasure or numbing anymore..

I feel that and wasn't smart enough to recognize it fully until you said it..

I've been thinking a lot more as to the "why" that is. And it's definitely an other part of this tool that us hard core secret eaters, bingers might not have recognized very easily?

So with having my stomach hacked out i think of our "tiny new tummies" and I tend to forget that hormone production and messages received by the brain are altered..

We are not getting that dopamine stoked like we did before?

I don't have it all together yet because let's face it I'm not that smart of a woman

But I've been doing some reading, and still trying to figure out why this is a very good thing.

Because it is a good thing! We just need time for that 2 by 4 to hit us upside the head a couple of times..

Lol not sure any of that made sense... But you asked

I don't know the why either - maybe because we can't take in the volume that we used to before for a boatload of seratonin production? Maybe it is something to do with ghrelin that hasn't been studied yet? Could go in any direction. I wasn't really associating it with the surgery itself, so you may be onto something! Maybe Dr Gamergirl could design a level one research study - get this research cooking! I definitely agree the lack of satisfaction is a good thing, I just think it is a bad thing that my brain keeps trying to make it work! It scares me some.

I disagree that you are not a smart woman - your thoughtfulness and intelligence comes through in your posts.

[RJ'S/beginning 5,357]

Some thoughts and then some questions ... with NO suggestion that I know what the "right" answer(s) is/are.

If we were in destructive / codependent relationships with a boyfriend or friend or coworker or boss or even a spouse, chances are that the advice dispensed here would be some version of: "Lose 'em! They're keeping you down. They're contributing significantly to your destruction and aiding your self-destruction."

But when the offender is a blood relative, particularly a parent, that kind of advice is rarely if ever dispensed. Yet in the case of blood relatives (who have imprinted their damage on us since childhood more deeply and destructively than others can) the wounds they can inflict over and over again are tolerated. In some cases, the wounds -- even fatal wounds -- are invited.

Why isn't it OK to divorce blood relatives?

Failing that, why isn't it OK to severely limit our contact with them or, more accurately, their contact with us?

At the very least, why isn't it OK to establish hard and fast rules about what they are not allowed to do that hurts us and make it clear that there will be consequences of violating those rules?

You are sharing with us a black and white answer..Oh if life were that simple eh....There is a high percentage of woman who return to abusive relationships because they are familiar with it, they are cared for financially and see no way out..even for the children.....Does that solve the problem..no! the abuser abuses more and sometimes it costs the mate or children or both their lives....That said..

I am 1 in 12 kids..The only one who tried to continue a distant relationship with my mother....they all thought I was nuts..But I always knew that she was sick in the head and could not help herself....Hurting the ones she loves brings her great pleasure...But i am not an animal..I have feelings and wanted to make sure that she was taken care of and if she has even gotten sick or died...She still gave birth to me you know.......

But now..after everyone told me that it was not going to stay..that she would figure out a way to push me away as well. She did..she asked me a couple of weeks ago not to ever call her again...A minor family matter did not go as she wanted so she has finally cut all of us off..

My mother has always played the victim...I am a lone, i have 12 kids and they don't care about me...so she gets poor poor dear sad for you, we will help your children are all scum and waste....

That perks her up, and makes her feel like something special...Like I said she always wanted to be looked after one on one care...no deal for any of us..I had a relationship with her at a distance...That was pretty safe you know..

Now she has cut the ties herself and I will respect that and not bother her again...I do feel bad for her though because ahe will die alone. No one to see her out. Just what she wants.....I am done..

So many feelings and emotions get locked up in these kinds of situations....Sometimes you just don't know what to do until the choice is made for you..That is what has happened for me now......

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

RJ ... wow! Not that you hadn't drawn her clearly enough before, but there's no ambiguity here. She really determined to become The Perfect Victim.

BTW, you are an wonderful writer. Have you ever considered writing a memoir yourself? You use all the crayons.

I didn't mean for the above to sound so b/w either, but the "Mamas without Boundaries" theme in this whole thread is so strong.

This thread is powerful.

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

Your resilience amazes me, RJ...

I hope, that at some point, she has an epiphany and realises what she's done...

I know it might be a long-shot - but somewhere deep inside she must know the truth of it all..

My heart goes out to you x

[RJ'S/beginning 5,357]

Your resilience amazes me, RJ...

I hope, that at some point, she has an epiphany and realises what she's done...

I know it might be a long-shot - but somewhere deep inside she must know the truth of it all..

My heart goes out to you x

If she knew the truth that would make her a person like Hitler or an unfeeling great white..But she is a very sick person and has convinced herself that she was the best mother on the planet...She really believes it...When the other kids talked to her and she went on about her magnificence as a mother they would fight with her and tell her their side of the story..Never worked..She is also a pathological liar and is extremely smart and has a good memory for her lies...No...She will die thinking she was the Ace mother and we are all ungrateful wastes of flesh....

One thing I learned is you can cage a psychopath but you cannot cure them..... she will die alone like she allowed her lap dog to die alone...what goes around will be the end of it all.....I feel so bad for her..She could have had 12 children who loved and adored her and treated her like a queen...But that was never going to happen....And never will

[RJ'S/beginning 5,357]

RJ ... wow! Not that you hadn't drawn her clearly enough before, but there's no ambiguity here. She really determined to become The Perfect Victim.

BTW, you are an wonderful writer. Have you ever considered writing a memoir yourself? You use all the crayons.

I didn't mean for the above to sound so b/w either, but the "Mamas without Boundaries" theme in this whole thread is so strong.

This thread is powerful.

That is funny that you asked me if I was a writer..I am in fact...But a starving artist of the trade.....Yes one day I will pen all of this for a book and hopefully it will bring some conclusion to all involved as everyone has suffered severely at her hands....

[No game 14,436]

I don't know the why either - maybe because we can't take in the volume that we used to before for a boatload of seratonin production? Maybe it is something to do with ghrelin that hasn't been studied yet? Could go in any direction. I wasn't really associating it with the surgery itself, so you may be onto something! Maybe Dr Gamergirl could design a level one research study - get this research cooking! I definitely agree the lack of satisfaction is a good thing, I just think it is a bad thing that my brain keeps trying to make it work! It scares me some. I disagree that you are not a smart woman - your thoughtfulness and intelligence comes through in your posts.

So part of my reading today (in between shopping that is )

Oh notice the line:

""There is also the so-called vertical sleeve gastrectomy""

Weight-loss surgery not clear cut

Dr Karl › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science

Wouldn't you think that weight-loss surgery would work just by massively restricting how much food a person could squish into their stomach? But no, it's much more complicated than that.

First, let's look at the surgery. One operation involves actual cutting of the stomach. The Roux-en-Y or stomach bypass involves stapling the stomach to leave only a very small pouch at the top, which is then connected by a new pipe to the small intestine. Here most of the stomach and part of the small intestine is bypassed. There is also the so-called vertical sleeve gastrectomy, where the majority of the stomach is cut away, leaving your new stomach in the shape of a long, narrow tube.

The answer might lie in the so-called 'brain-of-the-gut', the enteric nervous system. It takes a lot of processing power to eat. You have to chew the food, mix it up and move it along the 10-metre length of the gut at the precise speed and with the appropriate holdovers, and also synchronise the addition of various juices and the release of various hormones, and finally, expel the food.

On one hand, this enteric nervous system has only about half-a-million neurons — about 170,000 times fewer than the 85 billion neurons in the brain in your skull. But while the brain makes some 100 neurotransmitters, the enteric nervous system makes a respectable 40 neurotransmitters. That's a lot.

You've probably heard of serotonin, the so-called 'feel-good' hormone. The brain in your skull makes a tiny 5 per cent of all the serotonin in your body — the brain of your gut, the enteric nervous system, makes 95 per cent.

Dopamine is a hormone associated with, among other activities, pleasure and the reward system. Your brain makes 50 per cent, while your enteric nervous system makes the other 50 per cent.

On top of this, your enteric nervous system produces various hormones that can make you hungry or full.

So this seemingly straightforward weight-loss surgery is not so straightforward.

Edited December 6, 2013 by laura-ven

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

Says the man who investigated belly button lint and how it is almost always blue......

[mistysj 1,939]

That makes some so-called sense.

[No game 14,436]

Says the man who investigated belly button lint and how it is almost always blue......

Lol, I didn't say he was a great Dr!! You know everybody is calling themselves doctors these days.. Oh but it is always blue...

Edited December 6, 2013 by laura-ven

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

lol I know, chickadee.. I was making that statement in reference to his 'so-called vertical sleeve' remark....

Smells of snotty derision...

Agree with the enteric nervous system bit.. and conclude, as we have most of our 'gut' intact (because all those transmitters are not just in the part of our stomach we had removed. They're from mouth to bottom), that on that basis, I don't think I'll be reaching for the serotonin/dopamine tablets just yet!

[No game 14,436]

lol I know, chickadee.. I was making that statement in reference to his 'so-called vertical sleeve' remark.... Smells of snotty derision... Agree with the enteric nervous system bit.. and conclude, as we have most of our 'gut' intact (because all those transmitters are not just in the part of our stomach we had removed. They're from mouth to bottom), that on that basis, I don't think I'll be reaching for the serotonin/dopamine tablets just yet!

Yeah.. I'm grasping at straws at this point

But it's not just the pain that's stopping me from binging like I said the pain from fullness (restriction) NEVER stopped me before. And the ghrelin no hunger thing? Well I'd binge when not hungry all the time. So this no satisfaction thing??

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

I have no answer to that... Primarily because I, too, get/got lots of 'satisfaction' from chowing down inordinate amounts of food...

I can only assume that we're creatures of habit.. and why some wls patients 'cheat' their surgery or swap one addiction/habit for another; such as alcohol, drugs, exercise or sex...

Either way, we're all searching for the serotonin/dopamine hit...

I wish I could get mine from something like.. I dunno.. crosswords...

[crowsnestmama 240]

I have no answer to that... Primarily because I, too, get/got lots of 'satisfaction' from chowing down inordinate amounts of food... I can only assume that we're creatures of habit.. and why some wls patients 'cheat' their surgery or swap one addiction/habit for another; such as alcohol, drugs, exercise or sex... Either way, we're all searching for the serotonin/dopamine hit... I wish I could get mine from something like.. I dunno.. crosswords...

Ccrroossswords...mmm Nope nothing. I think I actually just lol'd!!! (Maybe a little tiny snort, too. I'll admit nothing) Madame, this thread is the bomb. Thank you dde18