First off I want to apologize if I offended anyone. Also please read all the way thru before condeming me.

I am having a bit of a time getting something out of my head. I have a problem with seeing fat people in public and thinking to myself negatively regarding that person-even avoiding them. You know-looking at that person with sort of a disgusted look on my face-wispering to myself what happended to them,how could they not care. These thoughts coming from a 430ish pound guy-probably looking worse off then the person I just saw. Does anyone else have or previously had this same thoughts?

I am not sure what is the cause of this but after some thought I came up with a few ideas. The first one is that society in general forsters this kind of thinking and it is socially accepted to "make fun" of an obese person. Secondly, my weight got put on me quickly with my thyroid quiting suddenly-leaving me with a mental body image quite different from reality. I sort of knew I had gained weight but always thought I looked better then I really did-sort of a glory picture in my head of days long ago. Then as time went on I noticed my weight in different body parts-my face,my belly and finally my first overall body viewing in a full length mirror. I was an obese man--I weighed it, I looked it, I felt it!! Then a sort of depression set in-only punctuated by periods of time of intense effort to fruitlessly loose some pounds only to regain it back.

I am a very caring guy- I stop and pick up hitchhikers, pull cars of people back onto the road that ran off of snowbound roads, hold doors open for people going into a store after me, spend as much time as I can with my kids playing games with them-yet I cannot understand my "hatred" of obese people!

Perhaps I cannot come to grips with the fact that I am one of "them" and despise what I let happen to myself. How could I let myself "go" and not care about how I looked for so many years? How could I bury my head for so long till I opened my eyes and am now such a socially disdained person. Could my slow social evolution from being semi-social to being isolated to being avoided be caused by my weight gain? Could my hatred of so-called friends that are now no longer around now that I am obese be fuelling my own dislike of obese persons?

Never being a popular person has me,at least that's what I think, of being more than aware of my "social" standing-perhaps paying more than the usual attention to it or to the lack of it as the case may be thru my life. Sort of always wanting more of something that I never really had. Now I am at the total bottom of the social ladder and my sense of competition has taken a huge blow. Has my years of thinking I am better than many around me taken its toll and I have become prideful in my own little way? Am I afraid to eat some humble pie and accept myself as others view me.

Just a few days ago- I was checking into a motel for the night- I noticed that they were remodeling and the new rooms looked very nice. I saw some people going in to the new rooms earlier so I asked the clerk if I could get a remodeled room. She told me that they are very picky who they rent the "new" rooms to and that I couldn't have one. I was amazed- my first recollection of discrimination based on weight. This hit me like a ton of bricks. You see I had always been raised at the middle to higher middle range of the socio-economic scale and always treated people nice and was treated in kind back. Now because of my weight I was no longer middle class but something lower-sort of a lesser human. And now this is my problem- I was a lesser human because of the choices I made for myself-not because of who I was born to or some life tragedy. I made bad choices- in what I ate, in how much I ate and in what I did or did not do for excercise. I made myself this lesser human and now I cannot seem to do anything on my own to get myself back.

Am I alone in my thoughts? Has anyone else has similar thoughts or feelings?

As I work on rooting out this negativity, I appreciate you comments and ideas.

T

I think we might be missing something important here. Being fat is typically not something that we sat down, thought over, and decided to become. I'm fairly certain that all of us would choose being thin over being fat. We are fat because we have issues we are unable to overcome. Some of us have physical issues, but most are fat because of emotional issues.

About a year ago, I began having panic attacks. I showed up at my work, sat in the parking lot and bawled my eyes out, unable to go inside, feeling as if I was being forced to walk in there butt naked. I was mortified. I'm still not sure why this happened. It's a great place to work, my husband and I have worked there together for years. Anyway, I went home that day and still haven't gone back to work.

While I was working, I showered, did my hair and put on makeup every morning. I didn't dress up, but my clothes were neat and clean. After the first panic attack? I slowly stopped caring. How many times can you put on that make up, fix your hair, get dressed and put on perfume, only to look in the mirror and feel your heart sink when that voice in your head says to you, "Yeah, and you're still ugly and fat.. why did you bother?" I began wearing the same clothes everyday, not showering for days, keeping my dirty hair slicked back in a pony tail. And, I stopped going out of the house or letting anyone in. I had crashed and burned.

My point here is this.. perhaps being a "slob" or not bothering to make yourself look the best you can be -even if you are fat- is more than just a choice to be a slob. Maybe, just maybe, that person you are turning your nose up at is hurting so much inside that they can't even find the will to care.

I'm happy for those of you who can enjoy dressing up and feeling good about yourselves. But dont snub your nose at those who can't. Someone on here recently started a thread called something like, 'What do you do to feel sexy?' I just sat here staring at it wondering what it would be like to even feel good enough to go out in public. We are all struggling in this world to find a way to feel acceptable in one form or another. Let's not add to the struggle by treating others as if they are intentionally being less of a person than they SHOULD be.

Great Points PhotoNut!!!

I have definitely been putting my promise to work... at being a better person.

I need to make a few points and I hope I do not offend anyone but I have very strong feelings about this topic.

First point, judging people based on appearance is wrong. Admitting that you do does not make it okay unless you are working on changing. I do at times judge people based on superficial criteria so I know that I need to work on this and I do.

Second point, I do compare myself to other overweight people, not because I want to feel better about myself but rather because I want to understand how I appear. I actually do not have a personal image of me in my mind so I will ask my wife how I compare to other people.

Third point, this thread bothers me a bit, it bothers me because it seems to me that too many people that post seem to think that it is okay to make negative statements about people that they don't know based on purely superficial observation. The irony is that these same people don't seem to understand that other people are making the same assumptions about them. It's even more interesting to me that most people who make those judgments preface their statements with some sort of rational that explains why they are fat and why they are different. They are good fat people not like those ugly slob fat people who make us all look bad.. Well kids you can't walk around town with a sign that say's I am a good fat person just so everyone doesn't lump you in with the dreaded bad fat people. People who judge you will judge you and the interesting part is that even though you know how bad it makes you feel you still don't mind doing the same thing to others.

So if you really want to be one of the good fat people stop judging others superfically, admit that the flaw is in you not them and commit to making a change in yourself for the better

Wow, Susan, that was deep. Deep and meaningful enough to bring tears to my eyes. I lost a decade of my 20-30's due to severe anxiety attacks. I know firsthand what it's like to try to face the world when your physical body won't allow you to without hyperventilating or having knees turn to jelly.

I also know what it's like to live like a slob. I still haven't had the courage to post what I looked like as a neglected child, standing in the dirt barefooted playing outside in pajamas since I didn't have clothes to fit. That wasn't my choice, it was all a kid knew. As a kid, we had major plumbing problems and weren't often able to bathe. Did Mommy Dearest care? Nope, because she had her own locked-up bedroom and shower and closets full of designer clothes. We wore rags with greasy hair.

I think that's why I'm such an ADMITTED princess material girl. Clothes, toys, earrings, jewelry? Bring it on! Debt? Who cares, I need my pretties. And yes, I do need 900 pairs of socks and new underwear every month because those are things I didn't have in my youth.

I see fat sloppy people, then I see fat pretty made up people. Take Star Jones at her fattest. Sure, she had on expensive clothes, but on the inside she was just as unhappy as the 400 pound man laying on his couch in dirty sweats, unshowered.

For those that may not understand. We know that it is not right to judge, we also know we hate it when others judge us and know how this feels to our own selves. That is not the problem. The problem I have is that it is an automatic feeling and something that my head does automatically to judge someone. I am wondering how to get that automatic thought process to stop. That when I see someone who is fat, maybe even not as fat as me, that automatic thought that comes into my head that puts them lower than me or judges how they look or what they are eating or wearing or doing. We know these thoughts are not good or nice or healthy thoughts. I just have no way of knowing how to stop them. Basically how to change my thought processes or how to make myself see this in a new way. Why does my mind automatically go there to begin with? This is my problem.

TommyO, thanks for saying what needed to be said. Three cheers for you!

I have done my share of living like a slob. As a teenager, I really didn't try to dress or look good. This was because I had all the thin people in my life basically saying to me what's the point? You are still fat. I must admit that most of my friends are either thin or overweight and not morbidly obese like me.

I have been doing a lot of soul searching here lately. That and I am just starting to have the problems that go along with being heavy. My knees and ankles are starting to moan and groan, and I am constantly out of breath. I have not been banded yet, but I have a reservation at a seminar at the end of February. (Yeah!!!) I think that I have finally reached the turning point in my life where I am beginning to take responsibility for my own problem.

Personnally, I can't stand to see someone who is wearing something that is too tight or doesn't cover what it should. I don't care if they are fat or thin. It especially bugs me when I see young girls and women who leave nothing to the imagination. I have a five year old daughter and I have to be sooooo careful when I buy her clothes---some of them are just all too revealing.

I know and accept that I am overweight, and that I am Bipolar. I have to make the decision everyday that I will take some pride in myself to look my best. Not only does it make me look better, it makes me feel better, too. I don't dress to the nines, and I don't always wear make-up, but I try to make myself feel good about myself.

"Basically how to change my thought processes or how to make myself see this in a new way. Why does my mind automatically go there to begin with? This is my problem."

We have no control over random thoughts that enter our brains, but we do have control over our mouth and written word. My mind automatically judges, too, but my heart forces a smile and keeps my mouth shut.

That, I have learned Lisa. The smile and the empathy that comes fleeting right after the initial thought. That to me so far is progress since the band and hitting low enough to realize that I need the band and having surgery. I had gotten in that slump of pulling my hair back, no makeup since I was personally too lazy to wake up in enough time to do all of this and in such a rut I didn't care about myself at that point. I hope that smile is enough and hope that someday my pattern of thought will change for the better cause I am sick of being judgemental. At this point, for myself to feel like a woman I must have on makeup and my highlights and $150 hair straighter. I don't leave home without it. But this is all for my own self esteem, I say stick with what works.

Kim, to me progress is realizing you have character defects and are aware that there's always room for improvement. The fact something bothers you so much that you are working on a resolution is a very worthy NSV, indeed.

TommyO -- THANK YOU FOR SAYING WHAT NEEDED TO BE SAID.

I'm sorry, but this thread really bothers me too, not because I don't believe in "honesty" or sharing "opinions", but because I don't get where it's ok to think/feel/act the way people have said they think/feel/act here, and that there's little to no internal dialogue about "why do i feel this way?" "how would i feel if someone said these things to (or about) me?" etc... Someone on here earlier said something about us putting our own fears or things we don't like about ourselves on others. There's a lot of truth to that (and a lot of research to back it up). With that in mind, do most of the posters to this thread just absolutely hate themselves? This is very troubling, and I hope we can help one another to change this perspective.

I wish I had half of your confidence and self esteem!

This statement hits the nail on the head... Self-esteem has a LOT to do with many of the comments here... If we can't stand the slobby/sloppy/fatty/lazy/etc people "we're" referring to here, aren't we saying that about ourselves? Do we have to be thin to have self-esteem? If I knew I was never going to lose another pound, does that mean I can/should hate myself? That other should feel that way about me too? Important thoughts to ponder...

I have read this thread since it began with apt attention. It not only interests me as a "fat" person... but also, perception and physical attractiveness was what I did my thesis on in grad school. A huge part of the reason we "feel" the way we do about fat/ugly/sloppy/etc people is steeped in our very deep social constructs; socialization has such a massive influence on us; even as fat people we are showing our hatred for other fat people. It's just like internalized racism, it hurts us as individuals and society as a whole. I won't give a recap of my study, but I can tell you, a lot of the way we feel about people is based on appearance, and not necessarily in the way we might think is logical. A great example of how peoples minds are changing about this is an article I saw on MSN the other day (you can check it out here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10807526/ )

Anyways, my final point is this... If we are the "fat" people, and we can't accept ourselves, what can we expect of others? If other people are starting to accept fatness (for good or bad), and whether we are fat, were fat, chose to be fat, don't chose to be fat, whatever, can't we still love ourselves and others? I really think if we did, the world would be a much better place. (And before I get flamed, I'm not saying being fat/staying fat is healthy, or good for you...just asking, can't we love ourselves, fat, thin, or whatever?)

Clevergrrly, very well put. I couldn't agree more.

This thread is deep!! Ain't it grand to live in a country where we can agree to disagree! In high school I was in accelerated classes. There were alot of really smart kids I mean SMART that chose to be non-conformists. I asked one of the braniacs what exactly did that mean( I was 14 years old). I will never forget what he said it has stuck with me all of this time. He said I will not be what society says I should be. I will not look like what society has said I should look like. I will not be conformed to any identity that society deems acceptable. I thanked him for the insight and posed this question, what society was he speaking of. He never answered me. To each his own. I care about my appearance and I like to be clean, neat and well groomed. If you choose to be the exact opposite then that is your choice. At least we live in a country where we have that...choices!!!

Right on Diva ... We do have choices, which in my mind includes choices about the way we think about ourselves and others, as well as how we act towards ourselves and others. Having choices introduces the possibility for change in our lives, and that's why I'm so glad this choice of getting the band has helped to give me an opportunity to change myself in a positive way. (Loved that conformity quote, by the way.) :confused: angie

We have no control over random thoughts that enter our brains, but we do have control over our mouth and written word. My mind automatically judges, too, but my heart forces a smile and keeps my mouth shut.

Exactly. I do feel empathy. I KNOW exactly what people say about me on the street and it is not nice. I would never never say anything ugly to a fat person, because I am that person. There are plenty of skinny slobs out there and I don't want to be a thin slob either. I honestly think I'd rather be big than a mess. The first definition in Webster's for a slob is "good for nothing"; I WILL NOT have people thinking of me that way anymore. I am in recovery if you will: I went through my slob phase during a bad time in my previous marriage. I think most of have had slob days. All I was saying is it makes ME feel better to look pretty. It gives me some small manner of self-esteem that I might not have if I was both fat and sloppy. I think more of myself than sloppy...but I have been in that yucky place where I didn't think I was worth it. Empathy. I have it, I've been there and felt the pain.