FuelMan

Ok, there gigit, How in the world can you twist facts, to make people who choice not to have "THERE" baby, to the null nazis ?? I can see you have a real hair across your ass on this issue. You talk about knowing prolifers who will take a baby in any shape ???? I'd say there any enough by long shot. OK, maybe one or 10, but not enough to make a small dent in the children that need homes. How many unwanted children do you have ????? How many foster kid do you have in your home ??? Let's be real on this !!!!! There are too many kids for the system to handle and a lot of them get screwed over and taken advantage of. I would rather see an un-born out of a womb by a Hoover then having another murder in prison. I was not talking about life styles and you know it. Before some guy killed another woman, or some innocent bystander, or raped another person I would rather him have been sucked out by the systems Hoover. There are too many people in the world today anyway, so why stress about some poor black or brown being part of the un-born count. I see you as just a little over the top in this issue and I would ask myself........... WHY. I know for myself I need something to focus on and to channel my anger and my passion. What I should be doing is channeling that passion into my eating and my contact with the God of my understanding. So good luck, as this will be my last post on this site. I have not the energy to fight and try to open peoples minds when they refuse to open to the bigger picture. Butch

The fighting about this subject will go on for a long time, So lets get away from the fight. It's the government who like this fighting, if they keep us fighting we won't look at the real problem. It's not the killing and the not killing of baby's, it the pregnancies, and the trauma that goes along with it. If we offered the lady's a place to have the kids and raise them or give them up to cool people, and if we offered help for woman who can not afford another kid, or who would take care of the kids as the girls went back to school, or job training and then had child day or night care where kids could grow safe and healthy, now wouldn't that be a better way to go ??? What we really need is the backing of a strong Government who is willing to spend money on taking care of the women here in this country and helping young girls have these kids in a safe and healthy environment would be better. So the trauma of having and raising a kid was nice experience, not a nightmare. As I see it the prisons are full of baby's who might have been better off being aborted before they where born. The killers, rapists, psycho's, and the hard core's, that no amount of rehab will help. They where brought up in a hell we know nothing about, and don't want to know. Maybe if that mother was offered help at the beginning and to raise that child in a safe way, both her and the child might have turned out different. I know this seems simple and like I am putting the blame on our government, but we spend billions a pond billions in foreign aid, and oil wars, we might want to look at our own people and how to help them make a better live for them self's, and help the poor. If we do it your way it will only help putting abortions underground, it's not going to go away. To me your way and the way of "Pro-Life" does not make any sense. It's not about killing baby's, forget about the baby's and look deeper at the real problem. Try and see out side of the box, step back and look at the bigger picture. The baby is the last step, lets try and fix the first one. We should all come together and fight this as united front. Butch Om Sai Rama

White Girls, Please................ Let's not fight about the after affects of the real problem. Lets look at the solution, what is it going to take for us to enlighten our young lady's of this country ?????? We need to not fight among our self's, we need to ban together and fight the real problem of this "Thing". As I see it and I call it is the disrespect of our women, treating them as "Meat", "Sex Things", this behavior has to stop if we want to make our young women more independent, and self reliant. Stop fighting about what is a baby a baby, when is it suppose to be human, that's not the issue. The powers that be would like to keep us fighting about that instead of coming up with a solution, keeping us fighting about the little shit and keeping our focus off the real problem. We need to unite against the "Madison Ave's", The Film Indus'", The TV vision of Woman. If I was from another plant, and I was watching TV & Movies, I would think all people in the US are buiteful, white, blond, and have large breasts. Just watch any show and see what you come up with. OK I'll get off the soap box, sorry, I can really go on about this. It just really piss's me off. Butch Om Sai Rama

PS. On the weight side of things. Today I finely broke the 300 mark. I weighted in at 295 lbs. I think that is the first time since High School. Thought I would just share that. WHOOPI Butch

Lets not get too crazy on the guys, I sponsor a few guys who believe like I do and up hold women's rights. What I was trying to say is we should look at the way women are set up from the get go as far as how to look how to act, how to "BE". It just ain't right the way we here in this country treat our women. Just watch a movie or a TV show. Forget about the ad's. We treat women like so much meat, movies about rape and abuse and killing are the norm, how sick is that ???? If we saw women in a different light, and treated them like equals, a lot of this problem would stop. Every time I look at RAG MAG'S in the check out line in the supermarket's, it makes me sick to my stomach. How we portray our women is a sin. So when it comes to unwanted baby's, and abortion, it might help if we started to look at women as people, not sex toys or a piece of meat. We should teach our women how to stand up and not take the shit the media/Madison Ave dishes out. Women should band together, but no.......... they have to see each other as a thereat and competition, where did that thought come from ????? I see abortion as the out come of a larger problem. So we should focus on the problem not the out come. It only makes sense. Butch Om Sai Rama

I have posted to this thread before in the beginning, and got a note saying someone has posted to it, so here I am again on my soap box. I am with you Carrie, and anyone else who thinks like you. The Government controls enough, but to control a woman's body is going a little too far. Abortion is not and should not be a means of birth control. But to ask a rape victim, or a child pregnant by incest should be able to have an abortion. The thing I have said before and will say again is........ we have to educate our women and teach them they are not what they look like. So much interest is put on how a woman looks and it is enforced by the "Raggie Mag's" that are in print, and exposed every where. When a woman does not think she looks like this Pic of some skinny, unhealthy model saying you have to look like me to be pretty. Then this girl starts to feel less then and tries with everything she has to look that way, no matter what it takes. We are told by the media what is pretty and what is not. It makes me sick seeing how we use and abuse our women. We should be working on this instead of after the fact. Then maybe our young girls would not have to have baby's at such a young age just to prove they are OK as females. To say nothing about how we treat the orphans in this country, why would anyone think about putting a child up for adoption. Butch Om Sai Rama

Thanks for the info. and good luck on you journey with the band. If you follow the plan in the begining you will have no problems. I am very happy with the band, the only bitch I have is getting fills here in Florida, I have some horror stories. Most of the Dr's I talk to here will not do fills on people they did not do the banding on. BUT....... I will call and see what this guy says. I have been at this weight for way too long and have lost no more weight for over a year. I do really count on the band to control my eating, without I would be up shits creek without a paddle. Thanks again for the info, and if any one else has someone to do fills I would really be thankful for that info as well. Butch

I did try fill center usa a couple of years ago and they sent me to Tampa. The people where really nice, BUT........ she could not get the needle in. She went through 4 needles and even bend 1. I was sore for a week after, and really pissed OFF. So I reverted back to what I have always done.......... wait. I waited till I went back to NY and when I got the fill. I was in & out in 20 min's. That was as I said a couple of years ago and I need another fill as I have had leg problems and can't do much in the way of working out. So I am stuck at 304 to 318 lbs. I have had the band for 6 years and have lost 345 lbs. I clocked in at 645 !!!! They could have floated me down 5th ave in the Thanksgiving day Parade. I am really happy with the weight loss, but I would like to get the Pann-neck-na-me (sorry, have no idea how to spell it) but would like to get some think closer to a goal weight. I can eat too much and I know it. SO.......... that's my story, I have been in Florida (Citrus County - About 80 miles north of Tampa) for 6 years and I need someone to check out the band and do the fills, but I have tryed so many doctors. Then when Fill Center usa did not work, I lost all hope. Now I got an invite to check out this thread and I have read you guys have had good things to say about other places to get my fill and my band checked out, instead of going back up to NY. I will check it out again, I don't care about travel, I would love to find someone good down here. Thanks, Butch

It's been a while since I was on this.......... Lap-Band talk. Boy has a lot changed. First and for most........ WHO the heck is the chick on the top of every page. She was cute at first, but now she is getting annoying. I can see after a couple of days or weeks I'll be hate'in her. How come she get her Pic in the top fo every dam page ???? Maybe just the opening page, but every ONE !!!!! A little too much ego don't you think ???? You might want to tone it down a bit there skippy. Next it seems like everything else has changed, but I guess that's normal, some change is good. But I am making my way around OK, we will see. Now for Butchie Boy............. Like I said in my profile, I got banded in 02', and have lost something like 200 lbs give or take. I was never able to get below the 400 mark, I was tell'in myself, "YO Butchie, you lost 200 lbs that should be good, right ????"............ WRONG !!!!! 430 is too much weight fattie, you got to lose more, but it has taken some real soul searching to get moveing again, and I was embarressed to come on here and still not have lost anymore weight, so I stopped. Well............... I was very sick, and I thought I was going to "Buy The Farm" as they say. When the Dr put me in the hospital and I was on IV Water pills and Iron. I was so filled with water, I lost 75 lbs in the 4 days I was in the Hostipal. Then let me out and I lost another 46 lbs in the week to follow, SO.......... that was a 120 lb weight loss in 2 weeks (all in water......... "P") that's almost 13 gallons of pee-pee. I was like a ballone deflateing. Now in the following week I should be below 300 lbs for the first time since High School. MAN...... what a ride. Now I feel I can come back and tell you the band is working, and I still fool with it once in a while, but I am still loseing weight, as I can now move around and be a lot more active. I feel really good for the first time in over a year, I am glad this is over...... well almost. So I am here to say, to all you newbies, just keep working it and use your band, even after 6 years it is still working good and when I go up to New York I will get another fill and I will get to goal weight, God willing and the creek don't rise. Thanks for listening, just my 2 cents. Butch:cool:

I just got a fill last Tuesday, they took it up .6 cc's. I am now at 3.2 in a 5 cc band. I am still 370 (as of Tuesday, don't have a scale that goes that large here) and have been here for some time, I am sick of this, and have finely hit a bottom with this weight loss. I want to be more healthy, and I am not going to dick around with it till I'm 60. I am 54 now and I have a lot of free time, and the weight holds me back a lot. I want to be done with it, I have the means to be on my way. So why not take advantge of it. I told the Dr I wanted to max this thing out, I want to not be able to eat like I have been. So here I am, having to drink water slowly, and be extra careful what and how I eat, this 3.2 ain't no joke, I really can't eat. How COOL is that. I have been banded for a long time and I am now ready to make the last push to get to some kind of normal life. I am setting my goal at 200 lbs, so I have 170 to go.........................CHARGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To Green : Thank you so much for taking my back. I could not have defended myself, or said it as eloquently as you did. The problem is not abortion, drug abuse, family or domestic abuse, morbid Obesity rape, alcohol abuse ................etc. It's not just one thing, the Gadget lady said she wanted to stop the slaughter, WELL.............. how many of these things have people dies from ??? And I mean the real deal, when they say something was child abuse or neglect, or any car wreck, or ______ fill in the blank, has drugs and or alcohol been behind it ?????? It's something like 90% of the people in jail are there for some form of crime where drug's (inclueding alcohol) where involved, either directly or indirectly. So I would say there is a social problem, BIG TIME. How can people feel safe and secure when they can afford health insurance, good housing, heat, whatever, they feel depressed and feel like giving up. When you have to make a choice between food or health insurance....... what do you think will win out ??? There are so many people in this country that can not afford to take care of them self's or there children. If the government does not care, why should the people. We should at least care about the people that vote them into office. But nooooo.......... they have to take care of the people that pony up the big bucks to there re-election campaign. That's how this country has always run, it runs on the ALMIGHTY BUCK (in other words that dirty word greed) !!!!!!! I said it before and I will say it again, you can't focus on just one issue, that's what the media want's us to do, rally around a single cause and forget the main problem. It's like........ someone going to the doctors with a digestion problem, the Dr. fixes the problem, and he keeps coming back with the same problem. Sooner or later the doctor has to ask the guy what he is doing, and the man finely tell the Dr. he is drinking lighter fluid. So then the doctor tell the guy, Stop Drinking Lighter Fluid, and you problems will go away. We in this country keep fixing the digestion problem. I wondered where the doctors got the idea on how to work there office, they keep giving you pills till you finely run out of money or you are dead from all the pills. No One Care's, it's all about the money. OK....... here you go. If you people that are focused on the abortion argument. If you wanted to make abortion illegal all you would have to do is have about a 10 billion $, and fund as many government elected people that you could with a promise of supporting them next term, as long as they out law abortion. You could have it out law-ed in just one year. OK, there you go, there is the answerer to your problem, or so you think. It will not change one blessed thing, the same people will be dyeing from drugs, smoking, sex disease, OVEREATING (that includes, heart attacks, diabetes, stroke, and a hundred other things coming from morbid obesity) , and as many people will get abortions as before. A lot of people don't seem to get it....... it's not the stomach ache, it's the drinking of the lighter fluid. I know many people will just want to keep fighting just for the sake of fighting, and will not want to get this, BUT...... I am glad there are some people on this sight (like Green) from other country's that can see that we in the US are totally NUTS. There are people all over the world who look at us and can only shake there head in complete bafflement, wondering what the heck are we thinking. Thank you again "GREEN" for you support and your thinking, keep a free mind don't sell out to the media or the government. Butch S

As to working together towards a solution, when both sides disagree on what the solution should be (one side: make abortion illegal; other side: keep abortion legal), it's unlikely that they will work together. "Quote" Gadget Lady........ Gadget - If you look beyond the tip of your nose, you will see it's not about making abortions legal or illegal, it makes very little difference one way or the other. If you don't confront the main issue, we are just blowing in the wind. Abortions are a symptom of the disease, there are a lot of others as well, female abuse, child abuse, child neglect & abandment....... etc. How can you just look at one aspect and put so much time, money and energy on this one and neglect all the others. Take a step and try and focus on the root of the disease. The root as I see it, as I have stated before is how men see the world and how they see woman, and how woman see them self's. If we change this, we can not only be done with abortion but a whole slew of other sympton's. Do you really thing if you make abortion illegal it will stop anything ???? I can even believe you or any semi-intelligent person believes this. If you make it illegal, it will just go underground. You know how illegal drugs are.....right?? Well.... you can get them on just about any corner in any town in the US, so how will this stop anything. Drugs, just like abortion is a symptom to the real disease, low and poor self esteem, not feeling like we are enough. In FACT........ that's why fatty's overeat, we are trying to fill that hole in our soul, weather it be with food, drugs, sex, whatever, if we saw our self's in a good light and felt safe in our homes and in our world, if people in charge really cared, and if greed was not a way of life how happy and secure would we all feel, and love would abound. This government wants us to feel Fear, be Afraid, to feel insecure about our life's, they want us to feel like we have only THEM between us and the dangers of a cruel world. But in truth...... it's the government that's makes us feel insecure, they don't take care of there Old, there Young, there Soldiers, there Woman, they don't take care of anyone except the 3% who have 80% of the money. You see if your rich, I mean really rich, you don't have anything to worry about. BUT, if your poor, or even lower class working stiff's, how can you make it here in the US, you work your butt off just to make ends meet, then they give you not enough money to live on for 50 years of working. Now how safe do you think that make people feel ???? Even the people with some money, the ones we use to call the middle class, are worried to death about the future and how they will make it, and the young are scared to think of the future. What if you get sick, or your child gets sick, the hospital's don't care and charge you whatever, or some don't even take you unless you have enough coverage, how safe does that make you feel. I know I said I was not coming back on here, but........ I could not help another RANT, sorry my bad, I should be keeping an even keel and thinking what would God Do ????? He would not start pointing the finger, and blaming, He would start make changes through the divine act of LOVE. Thank you for the time if you read this, and Namasta. Butch S

Below is a copy of my last post, I am copying it again as, I would like to restate it. Because, after I said this, all anyone did was argue, quoteing each other, and throwing up, Defensive walls and arranging Offence moves. Without taking any ones inventory, or hurting any ones feelings, BUT don't you think it's kind of........ a waste of time ???? I don't want to change any ones mind, but look at the poll, it seems to say a lot.... right ??? And instead of trying to change any one else's mind, Why don't we put our energy's together and work towards a solution. Try to enlighten each other, show each other how to love, by being as loving as I can be, Honest, but loving. I think this will be my last trip to this thread. Good Luck. I can see there are a lot of strong feelings on this page, and everyone is feeling they are right, and the other wrong. I ask why argue ??? It just causes disharmony and anger, if not bad feelings for the other. I am asking for us to look at the solution to this problem. The fact is that abortion is the after fact to the problem. As I have said before, if mothers felt good about having there children, and if they where promised the care and help to become a strong healthy mother, and how to be an example of strength and love to her child, and to herself, how much of a better person she would be. Then she will have no need to rely on a man to fulfill her, and she will demand a strong man of good moral fiber who will be a farther and a husband, not just someone to make a baby. These young woman are out there on there own (so to speak) feeling like they are less then, and all they are is a sex toys, they are not smart and don't have to be, if they are good looking according to Madison Avenue. But the ones that can't make the cut, and are not good looking or FAT (God for bid) all they have is there body, or a part of there body they are willing to allow any man into just to feel like they are wanted, because we, society, do not tell them they are worth it, because they don't have the right stuff to wear or the right body type, or the right height, hair, legs hips, eyes,........etc. If you don't make it by our measuring stick, well.... back to the end of the line, because the best you will be able to do is get someone to marry you, any one, in fact as long as they are willing to have you, you better jump at it. I ask why are we telling our young woman this lode of crap ???? Why is it imperative to brutalize our woman, and treat them like Kleenex people, take one blow, and throw away. Watch TV (the idiot box) or movies, or God Forbid, watch music videos, you will see how "Wonder Land" (the powers that be in Hollywood or where ever) see and acts towards our woman. They are NOT sex toys or Kleenex people. They are divine children of God, and as soon as we start treating them as such you will see a huge drop in abortions and many other things like rape, abuse, ..........etc. A lot of our social problems rise from this. Men are not accountable for there actions, in fact they are looked up to and rewarded for it. If we start to look at the REAL PROBLEM we will see where this leads to many, many problems. I agree that we need a spiritual awaking, BUT you just can't run around thumping people with the Bible, and beating them half to death with your "Jesus Bat". We have to love them first, love them & understand them where they are, and what they are. Then we can show them by example how to live and how to love. If I had one wish, I would wish that our government where not so greedy, and we could spend our money, on our problems here at home. Not to say we would not have plenty of money left for others. Has anyone here any idea what a trillion looks like ????? I think there would be a lot to cover what needs to be done, as long as we kept the greedy people out of the mix. So my one wish would be to have greed out of government and society, LOL, Fat Chance, right ????? If I made any sense.... Thank you for Reading. If Didn't I am sorry, sometimes I have too many thoughts in my head and they get mixed up, too many drugs from the 60's, LOL. Peace. Butch S __________________

I can see there are a lot of strong feelings on this page, and everyone is feeling they are right, and the other wrong. I ask why argue ??? It just causes disharmony and anger, if not bad feelings for the other. I am asking for us to look at the solution to this problem. The fact is that abortion is the after fact to the problem. As I have said before, if mothers felt good about having there children, and if they where promised the care and help to become a strong healthy mother, and how to be an example of strength and love to her child, and to herself, how much of a better person she would be. Then she will have no need to rely on a man to fulfill her, and she will demand a strong man of good moral fiber who will be a farther and a husband, not just someone to make a baby. These young woman are out there on there own (so to speak) feeling like they are less then, and all they are is a sex toys, they are not smart and don't have to be, if they are good looking according to Madison Avenue. But the ones that can't make the cut, and are not good looking or FAT (God for bid) all they have is there body, or a part of there body they are willing to allow any man into just to feel like they are wanted, because we, society, do not tell them they are worth it, because they don't have the right stuff to wear or the right body type, or the right height, hair, legs hips, eyes,........etc. If you don't make it by our measuring stick, well.... back to the end of the line, because the best you will be able to do is get someone to marry you, any one, in fact as long as they are willing to have you, you better jump at it. I ask why are we telling our young woman this lode of crap ???? Why is it imperative to brutalize our woman, and treat them like Kleenex people, take one blow, and throw away. Watch TV (the idiot box) or movies, or God Forbid, watch music videos, you will see how "Wonder Land" (the powers that be in Hollywood or where ever) see and acts towards our woman. They are NOT sex toys or Kleenex people. They are divine children of God, and as soon as we start treating them as such you will see a huge drop in abortions and many other things like rape, abuse, ..........etc. A lot of our social problems rise from this. Men are not accountable for there actions, in fact they are looked up to and rewarded for it. If we start to look at the REAL PROBLEM we will see where this leads to many, many problems. I agree that we need a spiritual awaking, BUT you just can't run around thumping people with the Bible, and beating them half to death with your "Jesus Bat". We have to love them first, love them & understand them where they are, and what they are. Then we can show them by example how to live and how to love. If I had one wish, I would wish that our government where not so greedy, and we could spend our money, on our problems here at home. Not to say we would not have plenty of money left for others. Has anyone here any idea what a trillion looks like ????? I think there would be a lot to cover what needs to be done, as long as we kept the greedy people out of the mix. So my one wish would be to have greed out of government and society, LOL, Fat Chance, right ????? If I made any sense.... Thank you for Reading. If Didn't I am sorry, sometimes I have too many thoughts in my head and they get mixed up, too many drugs from the 60's, LOL. Peace. Butch S

At first I was angry that this was posted and so many people want to use this as a platform to get there tiny voice heard. BUT............ I started to read some...... well most of the post's, I was wondering how I would put my belife's on this post. Well I will try. There is a lot of people in this world 9 billion and riseing. Most of them are not in this country, but there are many, many unwanted baby's anywhere you look. OK, let's me be as honest as I can be, trying not piss anyone off too much. I had a friend buy a healthy white male child through a lawer (it was all on the up & up) for something like 20K. Now that is a nice chunk of change, but remember this is a healthy white baby. NOW......... I wonder what a deformed black child would bring ???? Or maybe not deformed, just a black baby, how much do you think someone would pay for this child ??? Now......... where do these children come from ??? Not kid farms, they come from a place where there are way too many children and not enought people to take care of them. Without social reform and all the money that could be helping match adults with children, or allow the mothers to keep there children in a safe house with other mothers and maybe some older ladys helping those young girls care and raise there kids. Maybe if this where possable there would be less abortions and a lot healthyer kids and mothers. But how can you fix something like this with no fedral funding. But....... if the goverment get involved you will have every fat cat with his grubby little hands in the pot and nothing will ever get done. I blame a lot of this on GREED. We need social reform to help solve this, and with all the money going to the middle east in hopes to control the oil, nothing is left for the people to better there lives. I don't believe in telling someone what to do with there unborn baby, unless I am willing to keep the child myself. If I tell some young woman to not get an abortion, I better have a dam good reason, better then guilting her into doing something else, something that will not only ruin the child's life but the mother's as well. I have to come up with something better. If I am not willing to take personal responsabilty for the mother and the child, holding the mothers hand through the birth and everything leading up to it, and then taking care of the child till the correct age. If I am not willing to do this, then I have no right telling that woman what to do with her unborn child. We are so quick to go pointing fingers, and shouting sinner, we forget about the person who has to deal with this. I need to help that person, help her find the way and means to raise that child in a SAFE and healthy house, with full medical care for both. How can you expect to stand up for the unborn child at the cost of the woman. And then just leave that child to the winds of the world...... abuse, sexual, phycial, and mental, neglect, the feelings of not being wanted, just a throw away life, that is unless they are a healthy white child, then he or she is worth 20K. I would like both mother and child to stay together. But with out safe houseing and medical care, and income till the child is in school, and help with how to be a good mother. Without this.......... I say it's better not to have the child at all. You might say this impossiable ???? I say no, but it must start with the goverment standing up and doing what is correct for it's people. Get people in control of the money who know what morals are, and who have an idea of what needs to be done and what things cost, and to oversee the money and make sure it is used wisely. I might be a dreamer, an old Hippie, but we could do this, just stop spending all our money on stupid stuff, like.......... war to name just one. If you read this and understood and of it, Thank You, if I was not making any sense....... just know I grew up in the 60's and tend to think a little differently. Butch S.