Big Ol' Hairy Religion vs. Athiest Debate

[anonemouse 1]

While we're posting websites, my very favorite evolution vs. creationism website is TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy. It's awesome. It goes through just about every single creationist claim and debunks it and/or defends against it.

[anonemouse 1]

Oh, and by the way, this thread on LBT debates evolution, if anyone is interested in reading it instead of debating in this thread. It's rather long (24 pages), but pretty interesting. Not all of it is about evolution, but the topic kind of evolves into it (pun intended).

[Titslereaux 1]

"how accurate could people be 2000 years ago. When they were impressionable and wrote stories about a man who had lived before their own time. When people were not literate and everything was considered a miracle."

This hits the nail smack on the head and is exactly my point. A popular game we played indoors on rainy school days was "Relay the Story." The teacher would whisper something into one student's ear, who would whisper it to the next. The last person would go to the front of the class & repeat the story, and we'd peal in laughter at how screwed up it got.

[gadgetlady 4]

A popular game we played indoors on rainy school days was "Relay the Story." The teacher would whisper something into one student's ear, who would whisper it to the next. The last person would go to the front of the class & repeat the story, and we'd peal in laughter at how screwed up it got.

"Telephone", as we called it, is a fun game, but doesn't correspond to how the Biblical text was written and has been duplicated over thousands of years. The link I provided above is an easy read and quite informative.

[Chelle B 0]

There is a reason that I love reading LBT R&R - people are so passionate about THEIR beliefs. Yeah, sometimes it gets ugly, and sometimes people gain up on someone; but overall lots of interesting discussion.

Belief is just a psychological state wherein someone holds a premise to be true without necessarily being able to prove it to others. And hey, it's ok to hold different beliefs - as long as people don't try and pressure others to change. How boring would this earth be if everyone was the same?

Studies of "belief" and "faith" are fascinating as they can be in total disagreement with common sense. And when it comes down to Atheism or Christian Faith for example, you gotta die to get the final word on that. Good thing I am patient....

So I will be fair and share my personal beliefs and a brief history. I was raised in the Episcopal Church, and encouraged to attend churches of my friends which gave me lots of exposure to different theologies.

So....I do believe in God (one supreme being). Where I differ from most organized religions is that I believe that God presents himself to people in a way they will accept. So I believe that my God and Allah etc are the same - just the audience is different. The more I study the bible the more I can justify my beliefs. Remember this is only what I accept as truth.

I also believe that we would all be better off if we lived by Buddhist philosophy - I see this as a way of live instead of a religion. The more I study the more I learn about life.

And I plan to start RCIA in the first of the new year, and go through the full Catholic instruction. Whether I will convert will be decided at some later date. Since I was a child I always planned to become Catholic, for so many reasons. We will see.

I have a son who is atheist, and I adore him. He is brilliant and personable and awesome - and we believe different things. We don't try to change each other. My only mental block about atheism is that I personally can't believe that "we" are the complete top of the ladder. That just doesn't make sense to me at all. We aren't wise enough. We aren't developed enough as a species. And we keep screwing up. We lost some of our abilities over the centuries as we develop tools to make our life easier (but psychic abilities are another whole topic).

blah blah blah, and Chelle rambles on.... Wouldn't it be cool to sit around a table over margaritas and have these discussions????

[gadgetlady 4]

Oh, and by the way, this thread on LBT debates evolution, if anyone is interested in reading it instead of debating in this thread. It's rather long (24 pages), but pretty interesting. Not all of it is about evolution, but the topic kind of evolves into it (pun intended).

Ahhh, laurend, those were the days

I was just thinking about that thread, which started off denouncing people who weren't in favor of embryonic stem cell research, as being insensitive to those with disease and of course as also being anti-scientific. The reason I was thinking about it was because another lap-bander sent me a link to this article: The End of the Stem-Cell Wars - Yahoo! News . Fascinating reading.

Anywho, one day maybe we'll both have time to get back to the evolution theory / creation theory debate with each other, laurend. In the interim, I would propose that to every answer there is an equal and opposite answer on the other side. Institute for Creation Research - A Christ-Focused Creation Ministry and Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics provide insight into the other side.

[anonemouse 1]

I have a son who is atheist, and I adore him. He is brilliant and personable and awesome - and we believe different things. We don't try to change each other. My only mental block about atheism is that I personally can't believe that "we" are the complete top of the ladder. That just doesn't make sense to me at all. We aren't wise enough. We are developed enough as a species. And we keep screwing up. We lost some of our abilities over the centuries as we develop tools to make our life easier (but psychic abilities are another whole topic).

blah blah blah, and Chelle rambles on.... Wouldn't it be cool to sit around a table over margaritas and have these discussions????

The way I look at it, I don't think that there is a ladder. We just exist. I mean, I don't think of us as "more evolved" and other species as "less evolved" or anything like that. All species have evolved in ways that made them best adapted to their special circumstances Well, that's how I look at it, at least.

[anonemouse 1]

Ahhh, laurend, those were the days

I was just thinking about that thread, which started off denouncing people who weren't in favor of embryonic stem cell research, as being insensitive to those with disease and of course as also being anti-scientific. The reason I was thinking about it was because another lap-bander sent me a link to this article: The End of the Stem-Cell Wars - Yahoo! News . Fascinating reading.

Anywho, one day maybe we'll both have time to get back to the evolution theory / creation theory debate with each other, laurend. In the interim, I would propose that to every answer there is an equal and opposite answer on the other side. Institute for Creation Research - A Christ-Focused Creation Ministry and Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics provide insight into the other side.

That was a bunch of fun, wasn't it? Took me forever to find that thread though, since I couldn't remember which thread we had the evolution debate in.

[gadgetlady 4]

My favourite atheist website for an in depth analysis of Biblical text is Evil Bible Home Page

Oh, just positing here, but when someone posts a link to "Evil Bible Home Page", is it any wonder why people of faith feel that those without faith are anti-religious or hate religion -- or hate the Bible, as it were?

(green, I'm not bashing you here -- you have a right to post and read any website you want -- just making the point that by definition based on the title of the website you posted, there is a credible reason to believe some people are actually anti-Christian and hate the Bible)

[plump_princess 1]

You're assuming that people that don't believe haven't read the Bible, gone to church, etc., and that's far from the case, in most situations. In fact, most Atheists that I've been in contact with are far more educated about religion than most religious people are. The reason for that is because they want to understand why people actually believe it, so they try and gather as much information as they can. They just don't believe it. Not because they've not read or educated themselves, but just because they don't believe it. Period.

I assume that atheist haven't read the bible, because even most people who claim to be Christians, have never read it in its entirety.... I can just assume, that you didn't take the 1 year plus of devotion it would take...

Someone who doubts biblical accuracy has never read a history book. The correlations to actual history and proven science are unbelievable (The bible said the world was round before "scientist"). That is, if you've studied/read the bible.

The people who think the miracle of childbirth is a "blunder" of Mother Nature..... obviously haven't 1)experienced it for themselves 2)are being distracted... In either case. They're wrong. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree.

[pippinje 0]

I assume that atheist haven't read the bible, because even most people who claim to be Christians, have never read it in its entirety.... I can just assume, that you didn't take the 1 year plus of devotion it would take...

Someone who doubts biblical accuracy has never read a history book. The correlations to actual history and proven science are unbelievable (The bible said the world was round before "scientist"). That is, if you've studied/read the bible.

The people who think the miracle of childbirth is a "blunder" of Mother Nature..... obviously haven't 1)experienced it for themselves 2)are being distracted... In either case. They're wrong. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree.

I wouldn't assume. You know what that does.

[Chelle B 0]

The way I look at it, I don't think that there is a ladder. We just exist. I mean, I don't think of us as "more evolved" and other species as "less evolved" or anything like that. All species have evolved in ways that made them best adapted to their special circumstances Well, that's how I look at it, at least.

Does make for interesting discussion...

[Chelle B 0]

Nice post Chelle, I like the way you think. Color me guilty of being the Christian voice here. In all honesty, I don't mind if someone is an atheist, if they don't mind that I'm Christian. Wouldn't it be nice if we could go and have those margaritas, enjoy some discussion, maybe even a laugh or two, and just get along with each other? We might even make a friend

Exactly right! I love the debates, and the passion. When I pray I know that I am heard. So for me the discussions are entertaining and educational, and I'm secure enough in my beliefs that it doesn't become uncomfortable. (and the fact that I am right of course! :bounce:)

[Chris_NJ 9]

Why are so many Atheists such angry people who tend to push there anti beliefs on people? I don't hate you for not believing so don't hate me for believing. You don't have to believe in what I believe in ,so just don't and get over it. That go's for the religion pushers also. Don't push your views on others and move on ! Seems simple enough.:tired

[gadgetlady 4]

Why are so many Atheists such angry people who tend to push there anti beliefs on people? I don't hate you for not believing so don't hate me for believing. You don't have to believe in what I believe in ,so just don't and get over it. That go's for the religion pushers also. Don't push your views on others and move on ! Seems simple enough.:tired

I don't know, Chris, but I tend to shy away from making such a blanket statement about any large group of people. I know a lot of athiests who aren't angry, and while some athiests do express anger, I find it to be more related to the fact that they're just PEOPLE who happen to be angry for one reason or another. The same would apply to people who call themselves Christians who are very angry. They're just people, from my perspective sinful people as the rest of us are, who haven't learned how to deal with their anger.