Don't pray for me

[Creekimp13 5,838]

Most folks who tell you they want to pray for you aren't even thinking about what they're saying.

What they mean is to offer sympathy and hopes you'll be ok. I acknowledge that. And that's a lovely sentiment....and it's appreciated.

BUT...what they are verbally saying is....here is my religious dogma whether you want it or not. I will inflict it upon you in your time of need even though it's unwanted.

And that's wrong. It's ok to speak up so they think about it.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Creekimp13

[Creekimp13 5,838]

12 hours ago, foxcblue said:

I haven’t gotten to the end of the thread, but everyone is entitled to their feelings. The OP gets to be offended by this - because that’s how he feels. I’m a Christian, and I do pray for people and if I know that it will be a comfort to someone, I’ll tell them. If I know or am not sure that will comfort them, which is the point of sharing that, I won’t. They might be comforted by “being in my thoughts”, or just me telling them “I’m here for you”. The intention does not dictate the receipt. Just something to think about.

This is a Christian who "gets it". Kudos, foxcblue. Thank you.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

The intention does not dictate the receipt. I think it's extremely important to consider the receipt...if your intention is truly comforting someone else.

Often times I experience people's prayers as them comforting themselves. That seems a crappy thing to do at the expense of my personal trauma.

I would much prefer "You're in my thoughts", "I care", "i'm here for you"...because these things mean something to me and I experience them as support.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Creekimp13

[HealthierBetterMe 3]

May I ask if you don’t believe in God, then what is the harm or offense in someone praying for you?

[Creekimp13 5,838]

Because it's unwanted. And when someone tells you they're doing something unwanted and you say please don't...and they REFUSE TO HEAR YOU as you are doing now...it's offensive and feels very rapey.

[Matt Z 4,138]

6 minutes ago, HealthierBetterMe said:

May I ask if you don’t believe in God, then what is the harm or offense in someone praying for you?

So then I ask, what's the harm in someone not believing in God that makes most of those that do, feel they need to break out their bibles and attempt to convert people? My lack of religion doesn't harm or offend anyone else.

4 minutes ago, Creekimp13 said:

Because it's unwanted. And when someone tells you they're doing something unwanted and you say please don't...and they REFUSE TO HEAR YOU as you are doing now...it's offensive and feels very rapey.

Thank you. I mean, in today's society where everyone is so keyed into offenses that this shouldn't even be a question. When someone says "that offends me" that's it, end of conversation, you don't get to try to walk someone back from being offended. It wouldn't fly if the offense was a racial or sexual reference or joke... it shouldn't be any different for religion or lack of religion. The arguing about how someone can't be offended by something offensive is absurd.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

I get it...some folks like to pray. It helps you. You find value in it. That's awesome. If it brings you comfort...by all means....pray.

But when you choose to ANNOUNCE your prayers as a favor to someone else, to COMFORT them....you are taking it a step further and expecting your prayers to be regarded as something loving you're doing for someone else.

Not everyone experiences prayers this way. If you're unsure whether prayers will be appreciated, of if you're unsure if another person finds them comforting....maybe you could ask?

If someone asked me....I'd like to pray for you, is that ok? I'd probably say...prayer is not my thing, but I appreciate you caring. Thank you.

Maybe you'd respond....by saying you do care, and if you want to, maybe you'd pray privately instead of announcing it if you felt absolutely compelled to do this.......all of these things would be ok.

The whole point is that when you're trying to comfort someone...you need to do it on their terms with their needs in mind, not just your own.

[TakingABreak 2,733]

I unfollowed this, but now I'm back with a thought. First off, this thread needs to retire... ya'll are beating a dead horse. Three things never to be discussed (say it out loud with me) 1. Religion 2. Politics 3. Money.

Ultimately, it's a proverbial nicety. Do you think twice when people say "God Bless You" or even just "Bless you" after you sneeze. Because this is a religious phrase too, and I know atheists that say "bless you" because its a cultural norm/expectation.

I think we've all heard every side of the argument, and I don't think any of the people who said "I'll pray for you" meant it to hurt you or to demoralize your beliefs. I do believe anyone who kept up with this thread will avoid this phrase from here on out.

Over and out.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

1 minute ago, AshAsh1 said:

Ultimately, it's a proverbial nicety. Do you think twice when people say "God Bless You" or even just "Bless you" after you sneeze. Because this is a religious phrase too, and I know atheists that say "bless you" because its a cultural norm/expectation.

I don't. I say gesundheit....which means "good health" or...I wish you good health.

Sometimes I say "allergies or bug?" If they say bug, I ask if they need to go home and rest, or if they need any comfort items. I'm well known for having antihistamines and lotion tissues..lol.

I think beating dead horses is the nature of the rants and raves boards...which is why this particular board carries this particular warning: "Want debate? Get it here. Gripe, complain, moan, fight, rant and rave. Enter at your own risk!"

But I'd tend to agree....meh....this one's run it's course.

Unless someone else jumps in...in which case, I can't make any promises. I do try to sit on my fingers sometimes, but my arse is smaller now and they tend to wiggle loose

[foxcblue 21]

3 hours ago, Matt Z said:

The arguing about how someone can't be offended by something offensive is absurd.

^^^^Yup.

[Syndie 8]

When I offer to pray for someone, it is not with malicious intent. It is what I and billions of other people feel is the right thing to do when we feel someone is in need. Most of the time that I pray for people, they don’t know about it. I am not offended that you are atheist. You should not be offended that I am a Christian. When a Christian offers to pray for you, take that as “I care for you.”. Because in fact, that is what they are telling you.

[jess9395 5,448]

I find it really interesting how convinced both sides in this conversation are of the truth in their way of perceiving things—be it through faith or science.

I am reminded of a Daoist saying “those who know don’t say and those who say don’t know.”

Huston Smith is a world religions scholar and he says this... science is good at studying this we know the variables to, this we can control—thus experiments consist of control groups, we control the variables and study the outcomes. A dog could not study math because he has no way to control or measure—he can sniff it or taste it so it does not exist to the dog. He says much more, but the part that strikes me is “absence of proof is not proof of absence.”

I think somewhere in our vast universe there is probably intelligent life outside our own. I have no proof (unless you consider the existence of Goldilocks planets proof, we know the planets are there but don’t know if intelligent life resides there). I know there are far more things I DON’T know than things I do know. I find it interesting to see so many of you with the confidence that you are right and others are wrong.

Anyhow, as I have said before I am agnostic leaning towards humanist. But I don’t chose to spend any time or energy doing more than shrug or roll my eyes at those who try and push other beliefs at me. Life is too short, I’d rather be out running, doing yoga, watching a Netflix or spending time with my own wonderful kids and husband of 23 years.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

3 minutes ago, jess9395 said:

Life is too short, I’d rather be out running, doing yoga, watching a Netflix or spending time with my own wonderful kids and husband of 23 years.

If you're gonna roll in the crap with everyone else...at least own it and don't pretend you're above it:)

If you'd really RATHER be doing those things....you'd be doing them...not participating in tabloid discussion, no?

I get what you're saying, and even appreciate what you're saying......but acting superior while doing the same thing everyone else is...is slightly hypocritical, don't you think?

[Creekimp13 5,838]

Syndie....I'm not offended that you're a Christian. My best friend is a Christian, and we have no issues because she's respectful of my belief system and doesn't force her prayers on me.

I return the favor by not belittling her Christianity when she's in crisis.

We have a healthy relationship because we respect each other's belief systems. It's not hard.

If a Christian friend loses a parent...and they are comforted by some religious weirdness that I find totally bizarre...like the idea of heaven and an afterlife....I'm not going to suddenly assert my Atheism in their time of crisis and say....Believing in heaven is a fantastic waste of time, but, here, let me help you feel better with logic and reasoning about how well your mom lived and how worthwhile her life was!!!

Because if I pushed MY belief system in THEIR time of crisis...that would make me an arsehole.

The same way it makes YOU an arsehole when you push YOUR belief system in MY time of crisis.

Can you follow?

Edited June 20, 2018 by Creekimp13

[TakingABreak 2,733]

7 minutes ago, Creekimp13 said:

If you're gonna roll in the crap with everyone else...at least own it and don't pretend you're above it:)

If you'd really RATHER be doing those things....you'd be doing them...not participating in tabloid discussion, no?

I get what you're saying, and even appreciate what you're saying......but acting superior while doing the same thing everyone else is...is slightly hypocritical, don't you think?

I hope I don't come across this way from my post....

4 hours ago, AshAsh1 said:

I unfollowed this, but now I'm back with a thought. First off, this thread needs to retire... ya'll are beating a dead horse. Three things never to be discussed (say it out loud with me) 1. Religion 2. Politics 3. Money.

Ultimately, it's a proverbial nicety. Do you think twice when people say "God Bless You" or even just "Bless you" after you sneeze. Because this is a religious phrase too, and I know atheists that say "bless you" because its a cultural norm/expectation.

I think we've all heard every side of the argument, and I don't think any of the people who said "I'll pray for you" meant it to hurt you or to demoralize your beliefs. I do believe anyone who kept up with this thread will avoid this phrase from here on out.

Over and out.

I think everyone should stop posting, only because its the "song that never ends, it goes on and on my friend" but, I'm always up for a healthy debate.