Don't pray for me

[Creekimp13 5,838]

Of course you don't. Because it's an honest illustration of how nonreligious people experience unwanted prayers.

When someone prays for me...it's not for me. It's for them. They're self soothing, self pleasuring, self gratifying. They are taking something very private and making it public. And they're doing it in front of me, or directing it at me...and it's a just plain creepy and unwanted.

I am not trying to piss on religion, or people who have good intentions. And I'm not asking anyone to stop being religious.

The question was how nonreligious people experience prayer and why they'd be bothered by it. I explained how I feel. And yes..I really truly and honestly feel like you're doing something creepy when you say you're praying for me, particularly in times of crisis.......like I've just been flashed or something. it's an unwanted intimate gesture directed at someone who does not share your belief in it or your attraction to it. It FEELS like a violation. A flasher thinks he's giving you a gift, too...but he's not. He's showing you something private that you you don't want and don't want to see.

Aim your faith elsewhere...please. I don't like it. I don't want it. Please leave me out of your religious practices.

If you MUST pray for the nonfaithful......why not just shut up about it and do it without grandstanding and announcing it?

Not only are you doing this thing that I find absurd and creepy...you're announcing it and expecting to be thanked!

I don't appreciate your prayers.

I don't want them any more than I want a power chrystal or for you to sacrifice a chicken for me.

I don't think you're awful. I don't think your religion is awful and I do think you should be able to practice it. Just leave me out of it!

Some people don't value prayer and don't believe in God/s. We're allowed.

So, kindly knock it off.

No means no.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Creekimp13

[elforman 234]

8 hours ago, 2shea said:

I think parents who push their own beliefs on their children regardless whether it's religious, atheist or agnosticism do their children a disservice. To not give them the information regarding other points of view leads to intolerance and fairly narrow points of view.

My wife and I actually discussed this on our first date. I learned she was Jewish and raised in a Kosher household. She ditched that the day she moved out and doesn't do anything in her daily life. She observes the holidays out of tradition not belief. I told her that my mother tried to raise me Jewish and failed miserably and that the only time I'll go to a temple or church is for a wedding or a funeral. I won't even go to a bar mitzvah because I don't believe that children at that age have made truly independent decisions about their religious beliefs and are only doing it because it's how they were raised and what they were taught is expected of them.

So I told my wife that I'd have no problem with my kids being exposed to religion in the home but they'd also be exposed to my beliefs and could decide on their own what they believed and when, or if, they wanted to participate. She had no problem with that and we went on to discuss politics and our respective previous marriages. And that was just the first date. Proposed two months later, married 13 months after that and the kids are now 18 and 21, both atheists.

[jess9395 5,448]

On 06/01/2018 at 21:51, Creekimp13 said:

Why do I have to have enough sense not to say anything that doubts faith when they're in crisis (and I don't because I'm not an asshat)....but they can piss on my beliefs all they like when I'm in crisis and it's "a gift"?

That's insane.

I get it...prayer comforts THEM.

That's not a hug for me...that's them masturbating in front of me.

it's offputting as hell.

I don’t try to mind read. I don’t know peoples intent or why they do things, so I just let it go.

Much easier than being offended by what might be behind their prayer. Can’t know so why not either assume the best not the worst or just don’t assume anything and spend the mental energy elsewhere.

[jess9395 5,448]

You know there are both religious people AND atheists/agnostics who replace action with words or thoughts. And people on both sides who act. That’s an equal opportunity fault.

[jess9395 5,448]

On 06/02/2018 at 07:16, Creekimp13 said:

Of course you don't. Because it's an honest illustration of how nonreligious people experience unwanted prayers.

When someone prays for me...it's not for me. It's for them. They're self soothing, self pleasuring, self gratifying. They are taking something very private and making it public. And they're doing it in front of me, or directing it at me...and it's a just plain creepy and unwanted.

I am not trying to piss on religion, or people who have good intentions. And I'm not asking anyone to stop being religious.

The question was how nonreligious people experience prayer and why they'd be bothered by it. I explained how I feel. And yes..I really truly and honestly feel like you're doing something creepy when you say you're praying for me, particularly in times of crisis.......like I've just been flashed or something. it's an unwanted intimate gesture directed at someone who does not share your belief in it or your attraction to it. It FEELS like a violation. A flasher thinks he's giving you a gift, too...but he's not. He's showing you something private that you you don't want and don't want to see.

Aim your faith elsewhere...please. I don't like it. I don't want it. Please leave me out of your religious practices.

If you MUST pray for the nonfaithful......why not just shut up about it and do it without grandstanding and announcing it?

Not only are you doing this thing that I find absurd and creepy...you're announcing it and expecting to be thanked!

I don't appreciate your prayers.

I don't want them any more than I want a power chrystal or for you to sacrifice a chicken for me.

I don't think you're awful. I don't think your religion is awful and I do think you should be able to practice it. Just leave me out of it!

Some people don't value prayer and don't believe in God/s. We're allowed.

So, kindly knock it off.

No means no.

“How non-religious people experience prayer”

Should be

“How this particular non-religious person experiences prayer”

As we keep saying all over this board we are all different. Your non-religious experience is not universal. Mine is quite different. Please don’t generalize or speak for everyone.

I fully respect your choice and ability to speak up (hopefully politely) and ask someone to not say they will pray for you. I think they should respect that request once it’s been made. But I did think this post was about people on an internet board with strangers not in person friends and acquaintances. Perhaps I am wrong. But most internet board posters won’t realize that preference. Even if it’s been made once. It takes 50 posts or so before I can identify anyone on here.... I don’t pay attention to the names as I would the face of a friend or acquaintance. So I think it’s different.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

52 minutes ago, jess9395 said:

I think they should respect that request once it’s been made.

I do, too....

So when I get a reply post all about...how I should just experience it as "a hug"...I get a little salty. And it inspires me to express my objection a little louder.

No thank you means no thank you. It doesn't mean I should have to reframe my feelings to suit the prayer warrior.

I experience unwanted prayers on the internet...just exactly....like opening a message from a guy I don't know well who decides to send me a dic pic. I get it...you're proud of it, it's important to you, you think I'll like it and enjoy your thoughts....but I really don't. Please keep it away from me, I'm not interested.

It doesn't ruin my day. The world doesn't end. I don't hate the person.

Mostly, I just roll my eyes and hit delete...and think that person is a little clueless.

52 minutes ago, jess9395 said:

But most internet board posters won’t realize that preference.

Maybe they should ask? You know... before sending prayers...and dic pics.

I mean...if you're familiar enough with me that you feel comfortable invoking a deity on my behalf in some magical gesture...why not just ask if I'm ok with that first if you don't know?

Forced false intimacy feels fake and wrong to me. Maybe that's part of the issue.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Creekimp13

[jess9395 5,448]

On 06/02/2018 at 09:21, Creekimp13 said:

I do, too....

So when I get a reply post all about...how I should just experience it as "a hug"...I get a little salty. And it inspires me to express my objection a little louder.

No thank you means no thank you. It doesn't mean I should have to reframe my feelings to suit the prayer warrior.

I experience unwanted prayers on the internet...just exactly....like opening a message from a guy I don't know well who decides to send me a dic pic. I get it...you're proud of it, it's important to you, you think I'll like it and enjoy your thoughts....but I really don't. Please keep it away from me, I'm not interested.

It doesn't ruin my day. The world doesn't end. I don't hate the person.

Mostly, I just roll my eyes and hit delete...and think that person is a little clueless.

06/02/2018 08:44 AM, jess9395 said:

But most internet board posters won’t realize that preference.

Maybe they should ask? You know... before sending prayers...and dic pics.

I mean...if you're familiar enough with me that you feel comfortable invoking a deity on my behalf in some magical gesture...why not just ask if I'm ok with that first if you don't know?

Forced false intimacy feels fake and wrong to me. Maybe that's part of the issue.

My guess is the poster who replies that way is talking about here on a message board or an acquaintance or coworker. Someone you don’t know well.

Do you expect all those people to know/remember your preference? I mean I think we may be taking about apples and oranges here.

If it’s someone you consider a friend, someone you know well enough to express your preference in person to.... perhaps you shouldn’t keep them as a friend because clearly you live in different worlds with different value systems.

And I’m not talking about religious views. I don’t mind if a friend says they will pray for me even though I am not religious. You do. So we have a different value system and we desire/need different things out of a friendship.

But as I said earlier please don’t state your personal experience as the experience of all non religious people. It isn’t. I am not religious, but I am not easily offended by those who are.

[jess9395 5,448]

These quotes are getting all mixed up but I’m counting on people to be able to differentiate between what I have said and what @creekimp13 has.

I’m laughing out loud that we should have to ask before sending well wishes. I’m stymied by the analogy of the dic pics. That’s sorta ridiculous, I mean there are even laws protecting one (religious freedom, freedom of speech) and restricting the other (to those over 18).

I honestly feel badly for those who are so easily offended or put off. Must make life difficult.

My thoughts go out to those of you so bothered by other people’s words and thoughts.

[jess9395 5,448]

Oh and I don’t consider prayer something intimate.

[Orchids&Dragons 9,046]

3 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

Forced false intimacy feels fake and wrong to me. Maybe that's part of the issue.

I think this is not part, buy maybe the entire issue. Between bowel habits, sexual positions, underwear photos, etc. this board is both extremely intimate and yet anonymous at the same time. Sort of like a glory hole for bariatrics. I guess it's not odd that we have trouble establishing/maintaining boundaries. I'm not sure how many people even want the boundaries. They come here to discuss things they're not discussing with friends/co-workers.

If you're asking a website full of anonymous strangers for support, you can't predit what you might get.

[Sunlilly 1]

You are maybe 3 per cent of the population so if you don’t believe in God so be it. Shrug it off and move on. Most Atheist I know and some friends are don’t care if they really don’t believe in God. It’s no offensive to them and you are trying to start a conversation when bring something like this up. Most Americans are Christian or believe in God in some way. They are not trying to offend you. They are just thinking about you and if your that offended just be great fun some people are thinking good thoughts about you.

[elforman 234]

1 minute ago, Sunlilly said:

You are maybe 3 per cent of the population so if you don’t believe in God so be it. Shrug it off and move on.

So because we're a minority we should just shrug it off? Is that how your mind works? If it's just a small number of people then they're insignificant and not worthy of consideration? Read through all the messages in this thread and come back to me when you're willing to discuss this with an open mind.

And by the way, the number of Americans who profess to believe in god is shrinking rapidly. A Gallup poll in 2016 asking about belief in god had 10% responding no. And that number is undoubtedly much higher because of people who live in fear of not being to express their non-belief due to fear of rejection by their families and loss of employment and must pretend to believe to protect their livelihood.

In some countries atheism carries the death penalty and their theistic government claims a belief rate of 100%. So they should just shrug it off as well?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#United_States

[Sunlilly 1]

No that wasn’t my point at all. My point is most Americans wouldn’t expect that you would have a problem with it because like it or not it’s a way of life here and doesn’t cross their minds they are offending you. If you don’t want people to think any kindness toward you just tell them I’m sure they will stop.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

http://www.pewforum.org/2018/04/25/when-americans-say-they-believe-in-god-what-do-they-mean/

Edited June 2, 2018 by Creekimp13

[Creekimp13 5,838]

Review the Historical Trends on the Gallup link.

Religious "Nones" are the fastest growing faith demographic in America. We are 20-25% of the population.

Christianity in America is declining sharply.

That's not an opinion. That's a fact. Look at the chart...it goes back to the 1940's.

American's religious identity is changing significantly, and it's current trajectory mirrors Europe's disenchantment with religion.

Less than 70% of Americans identified themselves as any form of Christian in 2017. Contrast this with the 1950's....when over 90% of Americans identified as Christians.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Creekimp13