I know this was mentioned before here in the Vegans/Vegetarians forums and I wanted to maybe start this thread for all things pertaining to the book that Dr. Garth Davis authored, Proteinaholic. So far I'm on chapter 6 of it and I'm just amazed with how sound it is and all the studies that are out there to support why we don't need such a high amount of protein, and why it's a culprit of obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.... There's just so much to talk about if anyone wants to get into discussion. Now, this thread IS NOT going to be for debate. I do not want anyone coming on here advocating high protein and what they "know" and debating with any of us who are or evolving into plant based, vegans or vegetarians. I want to share the things I've learned from the book and if anyone wants to challenge those, READ THE BOOK FIRST, and then you can come and talk about it. If you don't or haven't read the book, feel free to read the things that will be posted...and do your own homework to find these facts/truths out for yourself. I literally don't have time to do a protein ping pong match...so don't start one. You will be ignored.

Okay, with that said and out of the way, the first thing I want to mention is that Dr. Davis actually dispels the myths about protein and why our bodies don't need so much. It is not an opinionated book, it's a science/fact book. It makes TOTAL sense. He is quite comical too. The parts where he plays out his doctor/patient dialogues hit me the most...because I can relate to how I was educated about protein being what we all need. I had the same mentalities as he did regarding it, but after I started watching documentaries on plant based diets for the past couple of years, I've slowly become open to all the health benefits of eating plant based. But now, even though I knew plant based is great for the health, I didn't know that the protein component was/is what was causing so many problems in my health, my husband's, etc. Now, I've got science and truth to understand the premise of protein. The history of why, what Dr Davis talks about, we western society pick apart whole foods and live based off of macronutrients. Now, it just boggles me why we do that. The other thing that rings true and is nice knowing, is that he is a bariatric surgeon too. He knows what he's coaching/telling his patients. He knows that he was not a nutritionist, didn't know a single thing, but the one hour of nutrition studies in his school days, but he took the time to dive into history, studies, reports, etc to bring light to why western society is so unhealthy, and most of it is based on animal protein.

Wow.

Read the book!

Hi Newme17!
I also started reading Proteinaholic , just last night, and I echo your sentiments.
I've had a rocky relationship with animal protein most of my life, and have just always fared better with plants. My hubby says my "green days" are starting to outnumber the omni ones. Up until the pre-op liquids that I'm currently in the middle of, I was doing great - 30lbs lost! I'm really appreciative of the validation of NOT needing whey protein to get me through the surgery. And I hope to share more thoughts and insights with you!!

catt

What I find very interesting is you ask people why they have 60 grams of protein for sleeve patients, and why it is the same in the first couple months after surgery as for the rest of their lives and the same for sleeve as bypass patients.

They get mad at you.

Logically, (unless you in my subgroup) a sleeve patient shouldn't have a problem with protein unless it is right after surgery. Major surgery I can see needing extra. After 6 weeks, what is the point?

I would also question (and make people mad) because the rates of colon cancer are higher now. If you still eat animal protein, a lot of it, that's one of the main causes. Getting protein from beans or a drink, is never considered good. Well all the protein doesn't give you FIBER, which your body also needs, and beans serve as a source of fiber.

Dr. Davis is well on point. People's minds and attitudes don't want to and refuse to believe it.

I concur, Swimbikerun.

catt

4 hours ago, CattMyst said:

Hi Newme17!
I also started reading Proteinaholic , just last night, and I echo your sentiments.
I've had a rocky relationship with animal Protein most of my life, and have just always fared better with plants. My hubby says my "green days" are starting to outnumber the omni ones. Up until the pre-op liquids that I'm currently in the middle of, I was doing great - 30lbs lost! I'm really appreciative of the validation of NOT needing whey protein to get me through the surgery. And I hope to share more thoughts and insights with you!!

catt

Isn't it just awesome! I can't wait to show what my bloodwork results are after doing plant based for awhile. Like you, having that validation, everything just confirms to me that I am on the right path. My husband has decided to do plant based too with me and he tells me most everyday how different and better he feels. I have a lot to talk about with my nut. lol. I'll be taking my book with me at the next appt for sure.

1 hour ago, swimbikerun said:

Dr. Davis is well on point. People's minds and attitudes don't want to and refuse to believe it.

Thus Proteinaholics! He talks about Cognitive Dissonance.

"This occurs when someone has such a strong prior belief that the person filters out or reinterprets all evidence contradicting the belief........Research suggests that presenting people with proof that their beliefs are incorrect doesn't change their minds. Instead, it actually reinforces their erroneous beliefs, as they work hard to defend them against fact and logic."

People will need to have an open mind to start accepting that their beliefs are wrong and embrace the truths. I had to. Dr Davis had to too.

Bingo Newme17.

Thanks for starting this thread. I will first state I have one kidney, post cancer, and it has CKD (limited function) and I CAN'T eat high or even moderate meat/protein now.

I have followed a modified vegetarian & low carb diet combined to both protect my wonky kidney, and help me lose. (on my own) Every pound lost is less burden on the system for BP and diabetes, and kidney health. I take essential amino acids which supports me getting the building blocks needed, without the load of meat protein.

I lost 30 lbs on my own, but bounce up and down if I am not rigorous with fewer calories. The one issue I see with any bariatric is i NOW get a VOLUME of food- eating plant based I get 6-8 cups veggies a day, healthy fats, no processed foods/sugar/sodas.grains/carby food.

I don't trust many of the 'heath sites" online, most never even spell check, let alone fact check! ---livestrong is ok, and one of the few places that lists 46 gr max "necessary" for women, 56 for men... Most sites waffle and say (wrongly) we NEED the 70-100 gr, and that is such overkill! We are the most overfed nation on the planet.

As a veteran the VA hospital was pushing RNY at me (they offer nothing else), and I demanded the diet literature in advance, and sure enough it is MINIMUM 70-80+ gr protein a day...no discussion...so I will not be trusting them with my longevity. The dietitian also only allowed whey protein shakes, dismissed hemp seed (with complimentary amino to balance it out).. so it felt like a brick wall..but VA only teaches ONE way the USDA high carb 'plate' way.

If I do have bariatric surgery of some kind in future I will be sure I can support my kidney first before I agree to massive protein intake. Winding up on dialysis just to be thin is not a good choice as I see it.

Edited July 30, 20179 yr by Private Citizen

i haven’t read the book so I can’t comment on it. I’ve been pretty much a vegan since before my GBS. I get blood work every six months and every time my test have been good. It’s been over three years since my surgery and I take no medication. I always take my vitamins and administer a B-12 shot once a month. Best of luck in ya'll journey.

2 hours ago, Private Citizen said:

Thanks for starting this thread.

You're so welcome hon. I hope all and believe that all will be well with you and your kidney. I'm sorry to hear of the health, but I'm equally excited to hear how much healing occurs following a plant based diet.

I've learned to do my homework and not rely on others opinions and websites anymore. So, I listen with open ears but have to make educated decisions these days.

Many blessings to you hon! Keep us posted on your journey.

3 hours ago, catdaddy said:

i haven’t read the book so I can’t comment on it. I’ve been pretty much a vegan since before my GBS. I get blood work every six months and every time my test have been good. It’s been over three years since my surgery and I take no medication. I always take my Vitamins and administer a B-12 shot once a month. Best of luck in ya'll journey.

Oh wow! Thank you for sharing! I'm eager to have such great results too, for being so new to plant based eating (about four weeks consistently now). Knowing that you follow a vegan diet, I'm sure you will agree with Dr Davis' book. I'll be sharing throughout the thread, you are most welcome to chime in.

I wish I could just quote the whole book! Lol. I love all the evidence and studies. I'm especially interested in these ethnographic atlases and how the author dispels the myth about Paleo using the example about the American youth. This has to make someone think!!! (At least I'd hope so). pg 97-98

its late...I'll see about sharing it in more detail tomorrow.

Reminds me that this book is still on my reading list. Got it quite cheap when amazon ran a promo last year (only 1,27 Euro).

Newme17 - wish there were way more of you that did this.

I've learned to do my homework and not rely on others opinions and websites anymore. So, I listen with open ears but have to make educated decisions these days.

Great post and thank you making it a safe place to share ideas.

I've been a pescatarian (fish and eggs but no other animal products) for about 25 years, so I am very interested.

I have read so many books and studies and have tried to take a little wisdom from each. A high protein diet is great if your only objective is weight management or body building. But I want more than that. I want high energy, weight management, cancer prevention, heart health, organ health, etc. Fruit and vegetables are definitely the answer,. Given that we have so little stomach room to work with, it seems logical that we cannot take in so much protein and still have room for broccoli.

What is his stance on grains? I am leery of them, but my evidence is only anecdotal, based on my own experience.