I know this was mentioned before here in the Vegans/Vegetarians forums and I wanted to maybe start this thread for all things pertaining to the book that Dr. Garth Davis authored, Proteinaholic. So far I'm on chapter 6 of it and I'm just amazed with how sound it is and all the studies that are out there to support why we don't need such a high amount of protein, and why it's a culprit of obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.... There's just so much to talk about if anyone wants to get into discussion. Now, this thread IS NOT going to be for debate. I do not want anyone coming on here advocating high protein and what they "know" and debating with any of us who are or evolving into plant based, vegans or vegetarians. I want to share the things I've learned from the book and if anyone wants to challenge those, READ THE BOOK FIRST, and then you can come and talk about it. If you don't or haven't read the book, feel free to read the things that will be posted...and do your own homework to find these facts/truths out for yourself. I literally don't have time to do a protein ping pong match...so don't start one. You will be ignored.

Okay, with that said and out of the way, the first thing I want to mention is that Dr. Davis actually dispels the myths about protein and why our bodies don't need so much. It is not an opinionated book, it's a science/fact book. It makes TOTAL sense. He is quite comical too. The parts where he plays out his doctor/patient dialogues hit me the most...because I can relate to how I was educated about protein being what we all need. I had the same mentalities as he did regarding it, but after I started watching documentaries on plant based diets for the past couple of years, I've slowly become open to all the health benefits of eating plant based. But now, even though I knew plant based is great for the health, I didn't know that the protein component was/is what was causing so many problems in my health, my husband's, etc. Now, I've got science and truth to understand the premise of protein. The history of why, what Dr Davis talks about, we western society pick apart whole foods and live based off of macronutrients. Now, it just boggles me why we do that. The other thing that rings true and is nice knowing, is that he is a bariatric surgeon too. He knows what he's coaching/telling his patients. He knows that he was not a nutritionist, didn't know a single thing, but the one hour of nutrition studies in his school days, but he took the time to dive into history, studies, reports, etc to bring light to why western society is so unhealthy, and most of it is based on animal protein.

Wow.

Read the book!

I recently became a vegan because I was so disgusted at what was being put in the food I was eating and what animal products do to the body. I am going to read this book. Thank you so much for this post. I used to be obsessed with protein too because of my hair.

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Thanks for starting this thread. I will first state I have one kidney, post cancer, and it has CKD (limited function) and I CAN'T eat high or even moderate meat/protein now.
I have followed a modified vegetarian & low carb diet combined to both protect my wonky kidney, and help me lose. (on my own) Every pound lost is less burden on the system for BP and diabetes, and kidney health. I take essential amino acids which supports me getting the building blocks needed, without the load of meat protein.
I lost 30 lbs on my own, but bounce up and down if I am not rigorous with fewer calories. The one issue I see with any bariatric is i NOW get a VOLUME of food- eating plant based I get 6-8 cups veggies a day, healthy fats, no processed foods/sugar/sodas.grains/carby food.
I don't trust many of the 'heath sites" online, most never even spell check, let alone fact check! ---livestrong is ok, and one of the few places that lists 46 gr max "necessary" for women, 56 for men... Most sites waffle and say (wrongly) we NEED the 70-100 gr, and that is such overkill! We are the most overfed nation on the planet.
As a veteran the VA hospital was pushing RNY at me (they offer nothing else), and I demanded the diet literature in advance, and sure enough it is MINIMUM 70-80+ gr protein a day...no discussion...so I will not be trusting them with my longevity. The dietitian also only allowed whey protein shakes, dismissed hemp seed (with complimentary amino to balance it out).. so it felt like a brick wall..but VA only teaches ONE way the USDA high carb 'plate' way.
If I do have bariatric surgery of some kind in future I will be sure I can support my kidney first before I agree to massive protein intake. Winding up on dialysis just to be thin is not a good choice as I see it.

I also have CKD. I bounce between stage 3 and 4. I'm currently on a combined kidney and pancreas transplant list. I just had gastric sleeve surgery on the 25th. I haven't read this book yet but am ordering it now. My dietician at my doctor's office offers a low protein meal plan for people that have kidney disease. If you would like some information on it I would be happy to pass it along.

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Malina you are kind to offer. I wish you a speedy time to transplant. Are you on dialysis now?

I WOULD be interested to see what is still being said by most renal docs/renal RDs. Send it to me here, or are you needing an email address?

DiD you note I said I HAVE resolved all the misinformation the VA and most kidney nutrition sites give i.e. "eat carbs, meat is OK"?

I AM on a perfect plant based VLP diet for me that RAISED my function from Stage 4 (GFR 26) to GFR 50, all by diet + some weight loss.

I follow a wonderful research MD from Johns Hopkins, Dr. McKenzie Walser, he was responsible for fighting to test a VLP diet + amino acids with renal patients.

His book Coping with Kidney Disease is what made the difference.

Did you know every nation* BUT the US is active with a VLP diet + amino acids supplements for their renal patients? I no longer listen to the SAD diet advice, or eat "moderate" protein..because THAT is what took me to GFR 26

*China has 100,000 CKD patients in ONE study using amino acids supplements + a VLP diet or no meat. NO nation can support millions needing dialysis or transplants in future. so they are taking action to use nutrition to save citizens..they already have 100 million 80 year olds by 2020... we already know the US Medicare is broke in a few more years so we can't count on a bureaucracy to provide care.

Love to hear how your surgery results go, will you be posting on that?

Glad you brought this up. I started changing my believe system after following Dr. Schulze, got my thyroid healed, and my blood work is normal since then. I'm not religious with it, but I at least know what's good and bad and try to stick to it during the week. It's the cattle and chicken industry that made this whole craze of protein, protein, protein. My rule of thumb is. If there is not enough supply of something and you need to give it hormones or chemicals to grow to fulfill supply it's wrong. Fruits and vegetables are available without doing anything. Just put in the seeds and it will grow.

SW:305
CW:217

Sleeved 01.30.17

24 minutes ago, Private Citizen said:

China has 100,000 CKD patients in ONE study using amino acids supplements + a VLP diet or no meat. NO nation can support millions needing dialysis or transplants in future. so they are taking action to use nutrition to save citizens..they already have 100 million 80 year olds by 2020... we already know the US Medicare is broke in a few more years so we can't count on a bureaucracy to provide care.

US has failed miserably at saving it's people through nutrition. It is unfortunately up to us, the people to do diligence in spreading the word, researching, and sharing the awesome health benefits of a plant based diet. I am so thankful for the doctors who are for their patients and handing out the right nutrition. They (and we) what will save our citizens.

Edited August 1, 20179 yr by Newme17

11 minutes ago, painter88 said:

started changing my believe system after following Dr. Schulze, got my thyroid healed, and my blood work is normal since then.

Awesome!

Dr Davis has some recipes in the back of the book that I haven't gotten to yet. But I did make a grain bowl last night that is super yummy if anyone is interested. I will be posting plant based recipes from time to time. This website, budgetbytes, is my usual go to. If anyone wants to share, please do!

Here's last night's dinner (I used red quinoa instead):

https://www.budgetbytes.com/2017/05/sweet-potato-grain-bowls-green-tahini-sauce/

a pic always makes it look better...

Edited August 1, 20179 yr by Newme17

A report called "Food, Nutrition, Physical Activity and the Prevention of Cancer: A Global Perspective" was produced by Kaiser, the American Institute of Cancer Research, and the World Health Organization. It concluded to reduce the consumption of meat. "There was a clear correlation between meat consumption and many forms of cancer." They recommend diets of mostly plants. pg140

I've seen and heard many reports of people going plant based who were diagnosed with cancer. The cancer has either shrunk or went away following such. The main reason why I had wls is for preventive measures of what obesity does. I've said it many times on here in different threads, my mother is obese and has cancer, diabetes, etc. I've vowed that I will not follow in her footsteps. I'm thankful I am open to change and that I ran across this book, other's personal experiences here on BP, and documentaries that helped push me in the right direction regarding my diet. I know now that I'm going the right way too.

On 7/30/2017 at 1:35 PM, CattMyst said:

FYI, I just joined the Proteinaholic FB group. Their original website has vaults more info, and they sent me an invite to join the FB as well.

catt

Don't have FB, but my husband does, so I'll have him join so I can check it out! Thank you!!

Analogy on how to basically dissect studies Dr Davis uses is pretty interesting. About a picture as a whole is made up of hundreds of pixels. Each study/article/trials of the subject you're researching is just one of the pixels. So, don't get stuck on one pixel as the truth, when it's not showing you the whole picture!!! He explains it way better than me. Lol.

Most people, including myself, get duped (or deceived!!) in the latest findings of health. I now have a broader scope of questions when it comes to articles, what's on the media, etc. He writes to be on guard (im paraphrasing) when it's a "new" diet or craze, most likely written by a journalist, not a doctor nor a nutritionist. Even if it were a doc/nut, still, do your research (even his) the best you can. So many of the findings are biased too, being paid by the sponsored company, etc.

I'm just glad he explains all the work (science) in the book because I wouldn't know where or have access to look for myself.

For those interested in researching studies available - either in full report or at least the abstract I always use www.pubmed.gov

Many studies are highly complex, but have an understandable synopsis so you may see more key words of interest.

use ANY keywords 1-3 combined like bariatric and thousands of resources, the MDs name, any other key word..

Gastroesophageal reflux disease and morbid obesity: To sleeve or not to sleeve?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28428706

here is one on sports drinks:

Short-Term Effects of a Ready-to-Drink Pre-Workout Beverage on Exercise Performance and Recovery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28763003

Just reading your post and finding it intriguing, especially since the veggies are far easier to digest since surgery. I've been struggling trying to eat the amount of protein suggested only because I fear hair loss. Stupid! I'm going to check out the book.

First of all, thank you for this thread! I am so happy to see people changing/basing their diets on science-based nutrition.

You all might enjoy the work of Dr. Michael Greger. He is THE BEST in the field of nutrition and has done thousands of free videos based on the latest research. The best part is, he doesn't just cherry-pick one study to back up claims (like many do), he reads ALL the literature on a topic and presents it in each video. He's also very aware of how the source of funding can change the outcome of studies, based on what the company/group wants to achieve. Check him out: https://nutritionfacts.org/

Also, his book How Not to Die is EXCELLENT!

(Sorry for all the caps, but he really is the best!)

Edited August 3, 20179 yr by fruitandveggies

13 hours ago, Private Citizen said:

For those interested in researching studies available - either in full report or at least the abstract I always use www.pubmed.gov

Many studies are highly complex, but have an understandable synopsis so you may see more key words of interest.

use ANY keywords 1-3 combined like bariatric and thousands of resources, the MDs name, any other key word..

Gastroesophageal reflux disease and morbid obesity: To sleeve or not to sleeve?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28428706

here is one on sports drinks:

Short-Term Effects of a Ready-to-Drink Pre-Workout Beverage on Exercise Performance and Recovery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28763003

Thank you for this!!!

5 hours ago, ayggordy said:

Just reading your post and finding it intriguing, especially since the veggies are far easier to digest since surgery. I've been struggling trying to eat the amount of Protein suggested only because I fear hair loss. Stupid! I'm going to check out the book.

My surgeon says that despite the amount of protein you get, you'll still lose hair. You could do 100g and still lose hair, do 40g and still lose it. I looked up the science of hair loss after wls and although your diet can play a part in helping, it's almost inevitable simply due to stress/hormones our bodies are going through. Currently, I'm losing hair and a lot of it. But I'm busy telling myself and reassuring myself that it's just temporary and I'll be fine on my plant based diet, because there's really not too much more I can do to change it. let me find the article and I'll post it.

https://www.drdkim.net/ask-the-dietitian/understanding-hair-loss-after-bariatric-surgery/