I know this was mentioned before here in the Vegans/Vegetarians forums and I wanted to maybe start this thread for all things pertaining to the book that Dr. Garth Davis authored, Proteinaholic. So far I'm on chapter 6 of it and I'm just amazed with how sound it is and all the studies that are out there to support why we don't need such a high amount of protein, and why it's a culprit of obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.... There's just so much to talk about if anyone wants to get into discussion. Now, this thread IS NOT going to be for debate. I do not want anyone coming on here advocating high protein and what they "know" and debating with any of us who are or evolving into plant based, vegans or vegetarians. I want to share the things I've learned from the book and if anyone wants to challenge those, READ THE BOOK FIRST, and then you can come and talk about it. If you don't or haven't read the book, feel free to read the things that will be posted...and do your own homework to find these facts/truths out for yourself. I literally don't have time to do a protein ping pong match...so don't start one. You will be ignored.

Okay, with that said and out of the way, the first thing I want to mention is that Dr. Davis actually dispels the myths about protein and why our bodies don't need so much. It is not an opinionated book, it's a science/fact book. It makes TOTAL sense. He is quite comical too. The parts where he plays out his doctor/patient dialogues hit me the most...because I can relate to how I was educated about protein being what we all need. I had the same mentalities as he did regarding it, but after I started watching documentaries on plant based diets for the past couple of years, I've slowly become open to all the health benefits of eating plant based. But now, even though I knew plant based is great for the health, I didn't know that the protein component was/is what was causing so many problems in my health, my husband's, etc. Now, I've got science and truth to understand the premise of protein. The history of why, what Dr Davis talks about, we western society pick apart whole foods and live based off of macronutrients. Now, it just boggles me why we do that. The other thing that rings true and is nice knowing, is that he is a bariatric surgeon too. He knows what he's coaching/telling his patients. He knows that he was not a nutritionist, didn't know a single thing, but the one hour of nutrition studies in his school days, but he took the time to dive into history, studies, reports, etc to bring light to why western society is so unhealthy, and most of it is based on animal protein.

Wow.

Read the book!

Ok, so I did some quick research on heme vs non-heme iron, and it's true you don't need heme iron.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/#h2

According to this website, a vegetarian menstruating female needs to consume 32mg of iron a day. That would take 4 cups (24oz) of canned white beans (the best source of iron in vegetable foods on the chart). I don't know about y'all, but that would take me about 6 meals of just white beans to accomplish! Lol!

Compare that to a non-vegetarian menstruating female needs only 18mg a day, accomplished by eating 3.5oz of pan fried chicken liver plus 1/2 cup spinach a day.

I really like this page:

http://www.sheilakealey.com/sports-nutrition/iron/

BUT, who is eating 3.5oz chicken liver every day? Lol! Just take your iron pills, or eat your fortified cereal, and go about your merry way

9 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

Just take your iron pills, or eat your fortified Cereal, and go about your merry way

Thank God for supplements!!! Lol. Hey, I'm glad you brought up the vitamins, etc that could result in deficiencies, because my husband has been doing WFPB with me and I totally forgot to have him taking b12!!!! So I gave him one this morning. ? I feel so much better now. I'll be going to the store to get him his own today.

24 minutes ago, Newme17 said:

Thank God for supplements!!! Lol. Hey, I'm glad you brought up the Vitamins, etc that could result in deficiencies, because my husband has been doing WFPB with me and I totally forgot to have him taking b12!!!! So I gave him one this morning. ? I feel so much better now. I'll be going to the store to get him his own today.

The liver store enough B12 to last quite awhile. I have forgotten how long but it was months. So he is probably fine. I am going to pick some up too. Just in case.

1 hour ago, Newme17 said:

Here's what Dr Greger has to say:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-safety-of-heme-vs-non-heme-iron/

I honestly don't know what to make of these claims..

Quote

But if you just look at iron intake from meat, it’s associated with significantly higher risk for heart disease. This is thought to be because iron can act as a pro-oxidant contributing to the development of atherosclerosis by oxidizing cholesterol with free radicals. The risk has been quantified as a 27% increase in coronary heart disease risk for every one milligram of heme iron consumed daily.

From the various sources I just took a gander at.. iron is iron, whether it is heme or not. We do absorb heme iron better (about 10% more effectively than non-heme iron). Someone said that our bodies can select to absorb the non-heme iron, whereas heme-iron gets absorbed, regardless. When we're talking 10%, that isn't a big deal.

So then I was thinking.. those people that have the condition of absorbing too much iron from foods (hemochromatosis).. (they absorb 100% instead of the typical 30%).. those people will show what too much iron will do!!

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hemochromatosis/symptoms-causes/dxc-20167290

Quote

• Heart problems. Excess iron in your heart affects the heart's ability to circulate enough blood for your body's needs. This is called congestive heart failure. Hemochromatosis can also cause abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias).

Ok, so we have two sources that agree that the heart may be affected.

But, upon further research, I'm not finding a link between Dr. Greger's "coronary heart disease" (which is specifically due to build-up of plaques in the vascular system) and the congestive heart failure caused by hemochromatosis. According to the next website, the iron actually builds up in the heart muscle itself, causing the arrhythmias and eventual failure, rather than from a buildup of plaques in the arteries.

http://www.cardiomyopathy.org/about-cardiomyopathy/haemochromatosis-and-cardiomyopathy

But, if it makes you feel better, iron supplements are non-heme sources.. so no worries! Lol.

2 hours ago, Berry78 said:

I honestly don't know what to make of these claims..

From the various sources I just took a gander at.. iron is iron, whether it is heme or not. We do absorb heme iron better (about 10% more effectively than non-heme iron). Someone said that our bodies can select to absorb the non-heme iron, whereas heme-iron gets absorbed, regardless. When we're talking 10%, that isn't a big deal.

So then I was thinking.. those people that have the condition of absorbing too much iron from foods (hemochromatosis).. (they absorb 100% instead of the typical 30%).. those people will show what too much iron will do!!

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hemochromatosis/symptoms-causes/dxc-20167290

Ok, so we have two sources that agree that the heart may be affected.

But, upon further research, I'm not finding a link between Dr. Greger's "coronary heart disease" (which is specifically due to build-up of plaques in the vascular system) and the congestive heart failure caused by hemochromatosis. According to the next website, the iron actually builds up in the heart muscle itself, causing the arrhythmias and eventual failure, rather than from a buildup of plaques in the arteries.

http://www.cardiomyopathy.org/about-cardiomyopathy/haemochromatosis-and-cardiomyopathy

But, if it makes you feel better, iron supplements are non-heme sources.. so no worries! Lol.

Dr. Greger does list the sources he sited in the video if you are interested in researching further. For me the take home message is that the iron found in plants, seeds, and nuts is good. We should definitely get our blood work done regularly as WLS patients so any deficiency found can be corrected with supplements if need be.

Monster muffins (sweet spinach), vegan breakfast oat bars, sweet potato banana bites (vegetarian), and oatmeal energy balls....just some things on the menu today. My house smells wonderful!!!!

For dinner I'm making spicy black bean nachos.

I feel like I should be barefoot and pregnant lol I'll be in the kitchen most all day today.

4 minutes ago, Newme17 said:

Monster muffins (sweet spinach), vegan Breakfast oat bars, sweet potato banana bites (vegetarian), and oatmeal energy balls....just some things on the menu today. My house smells wonderful!!!!

For dinner I'm making spicy black bean nachos.

I feel like I should be barefoot and pregnant lol I'll be in the kitchen most all day today.

Can I come over? lol...

I am making the tofu parmesean receipe for dinner that I posted earlier this week. I'll post photos later. I hope it turns out ok. This will be my first try at a tofu dish.

21 minutes ago, Apple1 said:

Can I come over? lol...

I am making the tofu parmesean receipe for dinner that I posted earlier this week. I'll post photos later. I hope it turns out ok. This will be my first try at a tofu dish.

You sure can...just run yourself down. Haha!

Please do share! I want to hear and see how it turns out.

5 minutes ago, Newme17 said:

You sure can...just run yourself down. Haha!

Please do share! I want to hear and see how it turns out.

Too bad you are like 6-7 states away depending on the route..lol..

15 minutes ago, Apple1 said:

Too bad you are like 6-7 states away depending on the route..lol..

You can get through the first 5-6 easily. Once you hit Texas, it'll be a whole day's worth of traveling. ?

Ok here are the photos for the tofu dish. I took some as I was fixing it. I did use real cheese, but organic from pasture cows. I couldn't find any of the good vegan cheeses. I followed the recommendation of reviewers and froze the tofu for a few hours before cooking. I did not fry the tofu I baked it with an olive oil sprayed pan. I used some spinach in between layers. t was delicious ? my dh had seconds?

48 minutes ago, Apple1 said:

Ok here are the photos for the tofu dish. I took some as I was fixing it. I did use real cheese, but organic from pasture cows. I couldn't find any of the good vegan cheeses. I followed the recommendation of reviewers and froze the tofu for a few hours before cooking. I did not fry the tofu I baked it with an olive oil sprayed pan. I used some spinach in between layers. t was delicious ? my dh had seconds?

This looks sooooo good. I'm going to try it out myself!

Here is the spicy black bean nacho dinner. I ate maybe four chips of it. Very good too.

Hubby and 12 year old polished it off....

That looks yummy @Newme17

my dh would be tearing it up too!!

I could only eat a 3oz portion of the tofu and about 3 bites of the pasta.