You all know how I would vote. So lets see how many like me are out there.

I actually dont know anyone who got pregnant after a contraceptive failure, I know plenty who did because they forgot to take the pill, or didnt bother to use a condom because 'what were the odds of it going wrong'.

Me, me, me!!!! I got pregnant when I had an IUD. They can get slightly displaced and lo and behold, preggers. I am not going to go into detail about how it happened, but it did and I got pregant, which of course, I didn't want to be.

Ok having thought about this I know there are people out there who really truely do everything that they can to avoid the situation, and I know that there are people who cant use an IUD. I couldnt tolerate any form of contraception (allergic to durex, psycho bitch on hormones and agony with the coil) good job I love kids eh!

What I am trying to say is that for a lot of people who are turning up at clinics for the second time in a year, there must be another solution!

I am still struggling with the fact that contraception isnt free in the USA!

I guess I am too used to the NHS

Do yo uknow what is a big difference over here, adoption is never discussed as an option, it is definately considered to be a thing that only strange people do.

It is as if we can understand totally why someone would want to abort their baby, but if they want to give it away they must be a freak.

It so sad.

green, I find it interesting that you wanted to be sterilized but couldn't find anyone to do it -- and knowing the potential consequences didn't try harder to find someone to do it. I know you've said if you couldn't have had an abortion legally you would have found someone to do it illegally. Why didn't you find someone to sterilize you illegally?

This is going to seem like an off-the-wall question, but do you remember / would you mind telling me the exact date of your abortion?

green, I find it interesting that you wanted to be sterilized but couldn't find anyone to do it -- and knowing the potential consequences didn't try harder to find someone to do it. I know you've said if you couldn't have had an abortion legally you would have found someone to do it illegally. Why didn't you find someone to sterilize you illegally?

This is going to seem like an off-the-wall question, but do you remember / would you mind telling me the exact date of your abortion?

I had my abortion in Sept 1983. Attitudes were a lot different then. I suspect that I might have been able to get my tubes tied had it been 2007 instead of 1983. Doctors then were mostly male and could not get their heads around the notion that some women simply do not want to become mothers. Indeed some of the men with whom I worked when I was building aircraft were shocked and baffled by my choice.

You must understand that I had and still have no ethical issues with abortion; thus, trying to find a doc who would illegally sterilize me was not important to me. And I had been sexually active for a long time before there was this slip-up. Like I have said, I was meticulous about using birth control. There were no other pregnancies of course. Just this one.

I continued to use a diaphragm and spermicide up until menopause which in my case arrived early. I was 41 or 42 when I was menopausal, and I was so happy about the cessation of my periods that I refused to take HRT until I was in my very late 40s. I was only on HRT for 2 short years. (Possibly this is too much information about Green's reproductive life, eh. :eek: )

And no, Gadget, I don't mind answering your questions. I sense that you don't meet many women like me and only wish to get a better understanding of what makes us tick. In fact your question has given me an idea: the next time I see my family doc, a woman, I am going to ask her whether she would arrange for a woman who was in my situation at the time to be sterilized. I am curious to see if attitudes have changed.

Diane Rhem is a highly respected radio journalist in the Washington D.C. area. She's sort of like the Bill Moyers of radio. Wikipedia describes her show as follows:

The Diane Rehm Show is an award-winning National Public Radio call-in show with more than 1.7 million listeners. It is produced by WAMU and hosted by Diane Rehm. The show debuted on WAMU in the 1970s as Kaleidoscope, a weekday morning arts and discussion program. Diane took over as host in 1979, and it became The Diane Rehm Show in 1984.

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On her show today she hosted an abortion doctor, Susan Wicklund, who has written a book about her experiences. The "blurb" introducing the show describes it as: "A doctor on the front lines of the abortion wars explains why she does what she does,the steps she takes to protect herself, and why she believes she's providing a vital service."

I listened to most of the show and found it quite interesting. It included call-ins with questions from people on both sides of the issue, including some tough questions from "pro life" people. Dr. Wicklund's responses to the questions, not surprisingly, support the so-called "pro-choice" point of view. Those in the "pro life" side of things will, naturally, take issue with most of what Dr. Wicklund says. But nonetheless I believe anyone interested in the topic will find the show interesting and valuable. Even though Dr. Wicklund is pro-choice, she is "describing" based on personal experience, rather than "advocating" a particular position. Her discussion of the issues is frank, honest and personal, and she offers useful insights.

You can find a link to play the whole broadcast on your computer on Real Player or Windows Media Player here:

WAMU 88.5 FM American University Radio - The Diane Rehm Show

Look about half way down the page for the links to this segment.

If you do listen to the show keep in mind that Diane Rhem has had some issues with her voice lately, and her voice is currently a bit shaky.

I am a Christian and I believe that every life is here for a reason and if I was raped I would definatley have the baby. I know it would be hard but that baby would be part of me! It's an innocent life that your now in charge of. Millions of women aren't even able to have kids..adoption would be the best plan of action for those who couldn't bear to keep him/her. Its a touchy subject but those children didn't do anything to deserve death! But I am not gonna be judged for the sins of others they have their judgement in death and if they can live with themselves more power to them.

ash_ I have complete respect for your input and I understand your viewpoint on this topic as you've explained it. I'd like to try to tell you why I believe that women should be able to make the decision of whether or not to have a baby that she became impregnated with under duress.

I have a problem with a scenario where a woman is brutally raped, beaten, contracted a veneral disease and become pregnant, and then have the government tell her that she must continue with the pregnancy and grow a baby to term that carries the genes of her rapist and is a constant reminder, for the rest of her life, of her impossibly horrid ordeal.

I do not believe that the baby has done anything to deserve death but I also do not believe that the baby has done anything to deserve life either. The baby is an innocent by-product of a terrible act. No woman should be forced to make a decision to have a baby when she is traumatized emotionally and physically by the very act that forced her to be impregnated.

I just cannot wrap my head around the concept or belief that God brought a rapist into a woman's life, made her endure a grisly physical act and then expected her to bear a child that He (God) wanted to create in that way. Although I know that many people believe that God has his reasons for everything, both good and horrible. I just don't share that same belief system.

I also believe that babies are much too important to say that adoption is always a perfect solution. It is totally unfair to a child with regard to knowing and being loved by his or her biological parents.

Adoption can be a wonderful thing for everyone involved, but it should not be the plan of the state for every unwanted child born because the state has forced women to bear unwanted children. I just do not think that is right or good for any child, nor is it a good law for the country we live in.

When a woman chooses to have a baby that was conceived under bad or unfortuante circumstances, that is one thing. But I believe that it is wrong for a woman to be forced, by law, to have a baby she doesn't want and can't physically or emotionally or safely deliver.

Do we really want the government to be in the business of making a decision of this magnitude for all women in this country?

Is see the point..honestly I do but one; its act of the devil ( the rape is) and two; I don't think that the government should step in...but I just think it's a horrible subject and I know that's life but I base my decision and bias (cause that's really what it is if were totally honest with ourselves) on my beliefs and upbringing. I was adopted by my father so that's why I believe that adoption is a great thing. Its touchy and I just feel the way I do. I am not saying that it should be outlawed or illegal because truthfully I dunno what it should be but I do take into account others beliefs and stand points because not everyone is the same.

ash_ I think that we probably mostly agree here. There's no doubt in my mind that adoption saves lives and is a wonderful thing in many cases. I congratulate your father for adopting you and helping you to become the caring person that you obviously are.

Having the government legally force women to have unwanted children is not a position that I think you or I believe is right and good even though we may not agree whether women should or shouldn't have abortions.

The main thing I believe we have to understand about this debate is that some people think, because of their belief system or value system or whatever you call it, that women should in every case of a fertilized egg implanting itself in a woman's uterus, she should be compelled, by law, to have that child, no matter what the extenuating circumstances.

My beliefs is that it is not a black and white issue and that one person should not tell another person what they must do in every case of unwanted pregnancy, so it obviously holds that the government sure shouldn't make a decision like that.

It seems to me, if you believe that women shouldn't have abortions, you have every right to be vocal about it and do all you can to convince women with unwanted pregnancies to go ahead and bring those children into this world and to convince those women to give them up for adoption if that is the best choice for them. Women often need that kind of support and it is your right in this country, with our current laws, to do that.

I just am adamantly against the government forcing women to go through unwanted pregnancies and forcing women to deliver unwanted children, which is what making abortions illegal would do.

I agree with you on that! Goverment involvement is ludacris! I dont know why they think they have some divine right to the 'throne" but they do and it pisses me off lol I had a friend who had an abortion and told me after the fact. Her and her boyfriend were living with their parents and she did it out of selfishness and I guess that's where my bitterness comes from about the subject because there's a possiblilty that I may never be able to have kids and I honestly would have told her I would raise the child and she knows that!! So it's crazy!! lol

I was one of those women who was unable to use

I became unwillingly pregnant when I was 33, while using the diaphragm and spermicide method. I arranged to have an abortion ASAP.

Ok, please don't take offense, but UNWILLINGLY? You made a choice to have sex. When you do that, you are pretty much accepting the consequences. That is the point of my entire argument on this issue. Woman who choose to have sex and then are unwilling to accept the consequence of their actions. I find it to be selfish. Frankly. I know that sounds a bit mean. Your son or daughter and I would almost be the same age.

AMEN TO THAT ONE sweethot143

There's always a story, isn't there, that has helped us develop strong feelings on this issue: women's choice vs. the government's choice. No wonder you are so passionate about this topic, ash!

Sweethot too, I'm sure. But to criticize green for having what she thought was "responsible" sex, is just too much for me. It is easy to say that green or someone else is "selfish" for having an abortion.

I just don't see it that way. I think it is very selfish for one person to compel another to have a baby because she thinks she is the only one with the right answer. To some people, making a human being is one of the, if not the, most important thing we can do while we're here on earth. When you can't have a baby, it seems insane to you for another person who is able to conceive, to terminate a pregnancy. That may be understandable, but very single-minded and very selfish in my books.

Babies... human beings, are far too important to be used in this way.

Ok, please don't take offense, but UNWILLINGLY? You made a choice to have sex. When you do that, you are pretty much accepting the consequences. That is the point of my entire argument on this issue. Woman who choose to have sex and then are unwilling to accept the consequence of their actions. I find it to be selfish. Frankly. I know that sounds a bit mean. Your son or daughter and I would almost be the same age.

Sweethot, your position on this matter comes down to this: Don't have sex unless you are prepared to have a baby exactly 9 months from that moment.

No matter what you say about that point of view, at least you must realize that it is totally unrealistic. People are absolutely not ever going to live their lives by that rule.

Take green for example. She has made clear that she never wanted children. She has always been clear about that in her own mind. She attempted to have her tubes tied and was refused by the doctor. So, as her advisor, you would say to her, "sorry green, you must never have sex for the rest of your life, even if you use contraception, because there is a tiny chance that the contraception might not work." Sweethot, get real!! It's fine if you want to live your life by those rules, but it is absurd to expect other people to do the same.

You have a certain point of view here that you believe every person must live by in order to be "right." Yet you and everyone else in the world can clearly see that no one is ever going to actually live like that, except for a very few that may choose to. So what is the point? It seems like such an exercise in futility to believe in something that is never, ever, in a million years, actually going to happen.