You all know how I would vote. So lets see how many like me are out there.

I have a little brother..well hes actually my cousin. We adopted him away from my aunt when we found out that she was taking him to crackhouses with her and leaving him unattended while she went off with john. She feed him nyquil to be quiet. He was a couple months shy of being 3 when we got him..all his teeth rotted out because she let him drink juice at night, never tried solid food, just juice and cow milk, never even attempted to be house broken ( i refer to it as that bc its easy to get them to go pee on a tree) never circumsized and had a very very very limited vocab. Hes 11 now. Happy, normal, believes hes gonna grow up and be a skateboarder...thats gonna be his major at some unknown university...now if we were unable to get him from her, and for awhile she didnt want us to, I would rather that he never was born than have her stay with that woman. I love him to death, I raised him once we adopted him, I couldnt love anything more...but even if social services came and got him, he has a strong resemblance to his father, a Mexican, which have very low adoption rates, and at that age and with those problems, do you really think someone wouldve adopted him?

As far as child support, if I ever (deep breath) get pregnant when I am not married, I do not believe in abortion for myself, because I am responsible and could raise a great kid. However, I am pretty sure I would have daddy sign away rights, child support is hard hard to collect and most of the time it never is. Plus unless you really need it, its almost like getting paid, because you got laid..I know thats horrible that it ryhmes, but true..now if you dont have a job and daddy does then cash up, but many people arent like that and get the support for extras..I do believe in child support after divorce w kids..paying somenoe off because they married you

tiffero: Great post. You sound like a very cool, responsible person.

tiffero: Great post. You sound like a very cool, responsible person.

Thanks, I like to think im responsible..infact to most people my age is misleading!..do I usually dont shout out that im so young!

Speaking of hypocritical, I find it amusing when those in favor of abortion say they dislike abortion being used as birth control (if I'm not mistaken, some have even said it in this thread) or that they believe abortion should be legal but only until "such and such" a point. If abortion truly is a morally neutral issue, who the heck cares if women use it as birth control? If the thing growing in the woman's body is her property, part of her body and her purview alone, who the heck are you to say after 22 weeks, or 3 months, or any other arbitrary period of time prior to birth, that a woman shouldn't abort?

Well, FSM bless Canada, because we have no gestational limits, YAY! As a matter of fact there is no regulation of abortion. Although doctors choose themselves to abort only usually before 24 weeks or so. Thanks to courageous efforts from people like Dr. Morgentaler. I'm sure he's on your Xmas card list.

Thanks to courageous efforts from people like Dr. Morgentaler.

Yeah, cuz it's courageous to abort a full-term bay. Well, either that or unconscionable.

Isn't a bay some breed of horse?

Sorry, couldn't resist trying to lighten it up a little.

I believe I do agree with gadget, I don't understand why people get so up in arms about women making the decision to abort based on the lack, or failure, of birth control methods. The devastation of an unwanted pregnancy can be just as unhealthy for some women who have failed (or no) birth control as it is for women who have been savagely raped and beaten who have become pregnant.

The intrusion of the government in women's lives by forcing all women to bear children, whether they are or aren't healthy emotionally and/or physically, is simply wrong.

Yeah, cuz it's courageous to abort a full-term bay. Well, either that or unconscionable.

I agree. It doesn't take "courage" for a doctor to abort a full-term baby. It only takes $$.

Isn't a bay some breed of horse?

Sorry, couldn't resist trying to lighten it up a little.

I believe I do agree with gadget, I don't understand why people get so up in arms about women making the decision to abort based on the lack, or failure, of birth control methods. The devastation of an unwanted pregnancy can be just as unhealthy for some women who have failed (or no) birth control as it is for women who have been savagely raped and beaten who have become pregnant.

The intrusion of the government in women's lives by forcing all women to bear children, whether they are or aren't healthy emotionally and/or physically, is simply wrong.

I, as all of you very well know by now, believe that no woman who doesn't want a child should be forced to have it. This is why I have spoken about my own case. I was not raped, underaged, or a victim of incest. I was a sexually active woman in my early thirties when I had my abortion.

Now, I suspect there are 2 reasons why many of those of us who are pro-choice will often comment that we don't like to see abortion used as a form of birth control: 1) we tend to hope that this makes our pro-choice stand slightly more palatable to the rest of you, and 2) everyone finds the airhead who cannot learn from her mistakes, whether it be an unwanted pregnancy, leaving her house unlocked when she leaves for a two vacation in Aruba, marrying yet another abusive drunk, or leaving dangerous substances within reach of her two year old child to be Very Bluddy Annoying. Smart People rules say that when you have blown it once you make a point of taking care of business the second time around. This is why I personally am not fond of the serial abortion hunter. On the other hand, I figure that Darwin's Law may pertain in these cases. :bounce:

How many people that voted against abortions eat meat? You know, dead, murdered animals...

Why is killing okay some of the time but not all of the time?

I'm not for or against it - when people take a stand for this kind of thing it makes me think we're playing God. I can't go there.

I agree. It doesn't take "courage" for a doctor to abort a full-term baby. It only takes $$.

HAHAAHAHAHA wow, how naive. Do you know who the most violent people are?? Religious people. 5 murders in the US of abortion doctors. Many more arsons, bombings, threats of violence, attempted murders...etc

Also, when a doctor is speaking out that he has performed over 5000 abortions safely and it's still illegal, thats courage. Of course our legal system decided on that issue once and for all.

I don't even know why this is such a big issue. Abortion is a women's health issue. Pretty much every industrialized country seems to think so. So does the WHO. But then, if the church says its wrong, it must be because we can trust the church...

Read this

http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/publications/safe_abortion/safe_abortion.pdf

HAHAAHAHAHA wow, how naive. Do you know who the most violent people are?? Religious people. 5 murders in the US of abortion doctors. Many more arsons, bombings, threats of violence, attempted murders...etc

Also, when a doctor is speaking out that he has performed over 5000 abortions safely and it's still illegal, thats courage. Of course our legal system decided on that issue once and for all.

Many doctors perform late-term abortions....doesn't take courage since many are are legal and no one seems to prosecute when they aren't. But they don't do them for free, do they? They do it for money. Who is the naive one?

Unless you take a survey of every single person who commits a violent act in this country, you should not make a statement that "religious people are the most violent people in the U.S." Where did you get that statistic? Did you question every gang-banger, every murderer, every drive-by shooter? I would bet all my money that truly religious people make up the smallest number of violent offenders in our population. True religious people do not believe in killing. Just because you want to believe the media hype does not make the hype correct. There are loons in every segment of the population and in every group. No group should be judge as a whole by the actions of the renegade few. By far the vast majority of Christians follow the creed: Thou Shalt Not Kill. If any one turns their back on this creed, they are no longer Christian, in my opinion.

Many doctors perform late-term abortions....doesn't take courage since many are are legal and no one seems to prosecute when they aren't. But they don't do them for free, do they? They do it for money. Who is the naive one?

Unless you take a survey of every single person who commits a violent act in this country, you should not make a statement that "religious people are the most violent people in the U.S." Where did you get that statistic? Did you question every gang-banger, every murderer, every drive-by shooter? I would bet all my money that truly religious people make up the smallest number of violent offenders in our population. True religious people do not believe in killing. Just because you want to believe the media hype does not make the hype correct. There are loons in every segment of the population and in every group. No group should be judge as a whole by the actions of the renegade few. By far the vast majority of Christians follow the creed: Thou Shalt Not Kill. If any one turns their back on this creed, they are no longer Christian, in my opinion.

Just look at the jail statistics . In "The New Criminology," Max D. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith say that two generations of statisticians found that the ratio of convicts without religious training is about 1/10th of 1%. W.T. Root, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh, examined 1,916 prisoners and said, "Indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character," adding that Unitarians, Agnostics, Atheists and Free-Thinkers were absent from penitentiaries, or nearly so.

During 10 years in Sing-Sing, of those executed for murder 65% were Catholics, 26% Protestants, 6% Hebrew, 2% Pagan, and less than 1/3 of 1% non-religious.

Steiner and Swancara surveyed Canadian prisons and found 1,294 Catholics, 435 Anglicans, 241 Methodists, 135 Baptists, and 1 Unitarian.

Dr. Christian, Superintendent of the N.Y. State Reformatories, checked records of 22,000 prison inmates and found only 4 college graduates. In "Who's Who," 91% were college graduates; Christian commented that "intelligence and knowledge produce right living," and, "crime is the offspring of superstition and ignorance."

PS. About Thou shalt not kill: isnt there a HUGE loophole in christianity. Confession. Absolve your sins. When you live in reason (aka, outside religion) you are accountable for your actions.

I just spent 15 minutes searching the web to find more information about the authors and the study you quoted, but all I get is the article you quoted from that is posted on various Atheist websites. I need to know much more about the date of this study, the background and potential agendas of the authors and the criteria of the information gathered. I would also need to know if one very important question was asked before I could sign on to the validity of this study: "Do you practice your religion"? Many people are born, baptised and raised in a religion, but as adults they abandon it. They continue to identify as that religion, but for all practical purposes, they have no religion. Put it this way: I can call myself a vegetarian, I can promote vegetarianism, distribute vegetarian literature and quote from famous vegetarians....but if I am still eating meat, I am certainly not a vegetarian and anyone witnessing my meat-eating should not judge other vegetarians by my actions. The same goes for "religious" people in public and in prison. Also, this study included Jews in its statistics. I have several Jewish friends, and for the most part, they identify as Jews as a culture, not as a religion. They don't follow a moral or "religious" code of behavior, but a cultural one.

This study is also suspect for another reason. It gives as a reason for the murderous behavior of Christians the "fact" that Christians commit deadly crimes because they know that God will forgive them and they will go to Heaven, so their behavior doesn't matter. That is, to put it mildly, a load of crap. Christians know that they need to show God that they love and believe in Him, and the way He has asked us to do that is to follow His laws of love, kindness, patience and virtue. Their salvation is only guaranteed if they do. Secondly, your "study" quotes the Old Testament as proof that Christians think that murderous, criminal actions are just fine in God's eyes. Christians don't follow the Old Testament. When Jesus came, he made a New Covenant with His followers. We now follow the laws that Jesus set, and they demand that we live moral and loving lives. Just because many of us struggle with this, especially in our modern world, does not make us any more comfortable with murder or crime than others. Quite the opposite, I believe.

Sorry, I just don't buy the point you are trying to make. I have never known a true Christian who was anything like the ones in the article you quoted.

To suggest that doctors perform abortions just to make money is very biased and judgmental. Many doctors have compassion and a sense of what's in the best interests of their patients when they perform abortions. Please stop speaking in absolutes just to make your point. It makes for a less than credible argument.