joe7777

I am heading for a consultation in a few weeks, so I will be asking the doctors in Toronto if there are any fill doctors in Ottawa (where I live) But, if any of you know could you please tell me. Thanks

Yes and you forgot a key factor of what is scientific, it is FALSIFIABLE! Also, do you actually understand what a theory is...it feels like creation science debunking 101. You're throwing the OLDEST garbage my way Ex: Theory is not fact, No transitional species, Radiometric dating is invalid.... I don't even want to waste my breath (e-breath) on this, you are so far in the closet of denial.

*SARCASM******* Who? Geniuses like Behe and Hovind??? **END SARCASM** Mainstream science believes in evolution, the big bang, a non earth-centric universe....all stuff religion seems to disagree with.

Ok, are you serious, dinosaurs lived in the time of humans?? Are you one of THOSE people?!?! Ok, and I'm sorry, but i'm not looking at answersingenesis for my scientific information. Young earth creationists are all over the board, some literally believe dinosaurs were planted as a test of faith, some believe they are fake fossils, some believe they co-existed with humans...all sorts of wacky theorys. Thats the beauty of science, you make deductions from evidence, in religion, you have the answers and fit the evidence to prove those answers. Oh, and I did look at your article, 1. It only talks about C14, (the same stuff thats been debunked time and time again by REAL scientists) 2. Radiometric dating is so much more than that, its also Ar/K dating...and there are dozens more. These work on the same (and some on different) scientific principles, yet they INDEPENDENTLY come to the same conclusion. Do you know why religion is so reluctant to accept change?? Because most of the time, it means they are wrong! ...the vatican did not assert that it was some Jews who had killed Christ. It asserted that it was the Jews who had ordered his death, and that the Jewish people as a whole were the bearers of collective responsibility. It seems bizarre that the church could not bring itself to drop the charge of generalized Jewish ''deicide" until very recently. But the key to its reluctance is easy to find. If once you admit that the descendants of Jews are not implicated, it becomes very hard to argue that anyone else not there present was implicated, either. Christopher Hitchens (god is not great, 2007)

I've been atheist since about 1 year-1 and a half years. I was raised roman catholic but after i was about 13 we kind of stopped going to church (I always HATED church). So from then on religion was not a part of my life. *sidenote* I was a tricky kid for the priests, I would ask questions about dinosaurs and Adam and Eve...I was really into science and dinosaurs, and it didn't compute to me that there could be dinosaurs, which i knew was scientific fact and they were much older, came before humans, yet the bible never mentioned them. (and to this day it's funny because some people 'young earth creationists' STILL believe dinosaurs are fake or they invent some other thing to discredit radiometric dating...either way.) But yeah, good thing they didn't make the propaganda they make now, because they might've gotten me with that BS...have you ever seen those clips on youtube where they basically say evolution is a joke, we come from goo and that's impossible...total garbage. Yeah, so i've always had that rational side to me. I was always weary of the supernatural, so i guess i had a skeptic spirit. So i would say from age 15-16 on i would classify myself now that i was agnostic...but the church still had some of its teachings in me...But now i look back and i think the only reason i was like that is because it almost would've been a shame to turn your back on your religion. But now, i realise, at heart, i was really agnostic. And it's been about a year- a year and a half i can come out and say it, i'm atheist. Even Anti-theist to some degree (a generally anti-religious belief rather than an exclusively opposition to belief in deities). I 've been really interested in the subject. It's fascinating to me. I read Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennet...etc. And I watch some of their lectures on youtube.

Either way, enough about that.

Ok, that was a hypothetical scenario NOT a rhetorical question.

IF god is omniscient, why would he have to ask. And on top of that. One is presuming (is one not?) that this is the same god who actually created the audience he was addressing. This leaves us with the insoluble mystery of why he would have molded ("in his own image," yet) a covetous, murderous, disrespectful, lying, and adulterous species. Create them sick, and then command them to be well? What a mad despot this is, and how fortunate we are that he exists only in the minds of his worshipers. -Christopher Hitchens

This is a snippet (there is about 10 times more of these) No ambiguity huh? Credit to: Bible Inconsistencies: Bible Contradictions? GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness. GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day. GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created. GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created. GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created. GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created. GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created. GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created. GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time. GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later. GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction. LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.) GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation. GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation. (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.) GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses. EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses. GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit. GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years. GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil. HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil. GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's. 2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike. GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view. GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god. EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire. EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god. LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing. NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce. 2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it." EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him." 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love. GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord. JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth. GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood. GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood. NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood. GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind. NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind. GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark. GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark. GE 7:1 Noah was righteous. JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous. LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous. JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective). 1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians). RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous. GE 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark. GE 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?). GE 11:7-9 God sows discord. PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord. GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world. 1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion. GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah. LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah. GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born. GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time). GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years. GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen. EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him. GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel. GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel. GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings. JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing. GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac. HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son. GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God. JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had Iron chariots. GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting. GA 6:15 It is of no consequence. GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled. GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings. LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong. GE 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view. GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring. 2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous." GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses. JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt). 1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations. JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one. GE 27:28 "May God give you ... an abundance of grain and new wine." DT 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine. PS 104:15 God gives us wine to gladden the heart. JE 13:12 "... every bottle shall be filled with wine." JN 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus' first miracle was turning Water to wine. RO 14:21 It is good to refrain from drinking wine. GE 35:10 God says Jacob is to be called Jacob no longer; henceforth his name is Israel. GE 46:2 At a later time, God himself uses the name Jacob. GE 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz. GE 36:15-16 Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz. 1CH 1:35-36 Teman, Omar, Zephi, Gatam, Kenaz, Timna, and Amalek. GE 49:2-28 The fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel are: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin. RE 7:4-8 (Leaves out the tribe of Dan, but adds Manasseh.) GE 50:13 Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah bought from Ephron the Hittite. AC 7:15-16 He was buried in the sepulchre at Shechem, bought from the sons of Hamor. EX 3:1 Jethro was the father-in-law of Moses. NU 10:29, JG 4:11 (KJV) Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses. EX 3:20-22, DT 20:13-17 God instructs the Israelites to despoil the Egyptians, to plunder their enemies. EX 20:15, 17, LE 19:13 God prohibits stealing, defrauding, or robbing a neighbor. EX 4:11 God decides who will be dumb, deaf, blind, etc. 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love. EX 9:3-6 God destroys all the cattle (including horses) belonging to the Egyptians. EX 9:9-11 The people and the cattle are afflicted with boils. EX 12:12, 29 All the first-born of the cattle of the Egyptians are destroyed. EX 14:9 After having all their cattle destroyed, then afflicted with boils, and then their first-born cattle destroyed, the Egyptians pursue Moses on horseback. EX 12:13 The Israelites have to mark their houses with blood in order for God to see which houses they occupy and "pass over" them. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from God. EX 12:37, NU 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as more than 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of about 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt. 1KI 20:15 All the Israelites, including children, number only 7000 at a later time. EX 15:3, 17:16, NU 25:4, 32:14, IS 42:13 God is a man of war--he is fierce and angry. RO 15:33, 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love and peace. EX 20:1-17 God gave the law directly to Moses (without using an intermediary). GA 3:19 The law was ordained through angels by a mediator (an intermediary). EX 20:4 God prohibits the making of any graven images whatsoever. EX 25:18 God enjoins the making of two graven images. EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent's sins. DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins. EX 20:8-11, 31:15-17, 35:1-3 No work is to be done on the Sabbath, not even lighting a fire. The commandment is permanent, and death is required for infractions. MK 2:27-28 Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (after his disciples were criticized for breaking the Sabbath). RO 14:5, CN 2:14-16 Paul says the Sabbath commandment was temporary, and to decide for yourself regarding its observance. EX 20:12, DT 5:16, MT 15:4, 19:19, MK 7:10, 10:19, LK 18:20 Honor your father and your mother is one of the ten commandments. It is reinforced by Jesus. MT 10:35-37, LK 12:51-53, 14:26 Jesus says that he has come to divide families; that a man's foes will be those of his own household; that you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even your own life to be a disciple. MT 23:9 Jesus says to call no man on earth your father.

I'm surprised no one's quoted my Epicurus quote. Yeah, maybe because it's pretty flawless logic. Just a reminder. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

What? Also what point did i make that you disaprove of? I'm not sure i understand what i edited out? Or what you even mean?

Am i the ugly member? If yes, i could take a couple steps back before i post again, really look at what i'm writing. But otherwise, i think i'm not so bad.

This fits so well with my quote, which is basically my motto of atheism. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus

In Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet, Bart D. Ehrman explains: [A]ll four Gospels are written in Greek, by authors who were reasonably well educated and literate. In comparison with most other persons in the Roman world, all four authors, in fact, evince a high level of education. Something like 90% percent of the general population was completely illiterate — that is, unable to read and write at all. To be sure, the Gospels are not among the literary masterpieces of antiquity. Their style, for example, is fairly rough overall (Mark is probably the worst, Luke the best). But it’s not easy to write a book, even for well-educated people today, in our highly literate and markedly literary world... For someone to pull it off in antiquity required a good deal more than the average amount of literary training. And training of that kind required leisure time and money, since the vast majority of people had to work very long days. [...] In the end, it seems unlikely that the uneducated, lower-class, illiterate disciples of Jesus played the decisive role in the literary compositions that have come down through history under their names. Oh and as for me getting my facts straight, you need not worry about me, it is I worried about you. Please, are you kidding me, you don't think that people 2000 years ago were impressed by things that would be considered trivial today!! are you joking?? Also, do you know how many prophets born of virgin births, performed miracles, and claimed to be son of god there were in that time? LOTS! Also, the multiple authors of the bible cannot agree on anything of importance. Matthew and Luke cannot concur on the Virgin Birth or the genealogy of Jesus. They flatly contradict each other on the ''Flight into Egypt,'' Matthew saying that Joseph was ''warned in a dream'' to make an immediate escape and Luke saying that all three stayed in Bethlehem until Mary's ''purification according to the laws of Moses,'' which would make it forty days, and then went back to Nazareth via Jerusalem...The Gospel according to Luke states that the miraculous birth occurred in a year when the Emperor Caesar Augustus ordered a census for the purpose of taxation, and that this happened at a time when Herod reigned in Judaea and Quirinius was governor of Syria. That is the closest to a triangulation of historical dating that ny biblical writer even attempts. But Herod died four years ''BC,'' and during his rulership the governor of Syria was not Quirinius. There is no mention of any Augustan census by any Roman historian, but the Jewish chronicler Josephus mentions one that did occur--without the onerous requirement for people to return to their places of birth, and six years after the birth of Jesus is supposed to have taken place. This is, all of it, quite evidently a garbled and oral-based reconstruction undertaken some considerable time after the ''fact.'' -Christopher Hitchens (god is not great)

these are some of my favorite quotes. Try and answer these with your apologetics. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus One is presuming (is one not?) that this is the same god who actually created the audience he was addressing. This leaves us with the insoluble mystery of why he would have molded ("in his own image," yet) a covetous, murderous, disrespectful, lying, and adulterous species. Create them sick, and then command them to be well? What a mad despot this is, and how fortunate we are that he exists only in the minds of his worshippers. -Christopher Hitchens

I'm sorry...I can't really take this as an argument. It's 100% apologetics. It seems like a lot of words not really saying anything. It is ignoring a lot of fact. The Bible was written by man....ages after jesus died. Here's an example of how BAD humans are at remembering things ( ask police, the worst testimony is eye witness) *blatantly stolen from penn & teller's bullshit* There are more than 1 books out there today that have Elvis's favorite recipe's and they have 2 DIFFERENT recipes for his favorite fried chicken. Now he lived in OUR day, our modern time, and we can't get this fact straight...now how accurate could people be 2000 years ago. When they were impressionable and wrote stories about a man who had lived before their own time. When people were not literate and everything was considered a miracle.

This kind of think irks me...i dont know if you were trying to make a philosophical point or a scientific one. If you would tell this to your kids as a sort of proof like, you see science says energy is not created, it just changes forms...that really bugs me. In the sense that it is NO proof whatsoever of an after life. Yes, it reconstructs as another level...in the sense that if you choose to be incinerated, the energy stored in your body will serve in the caloric purpose of burning. If you are buried, you will likely become food for some ground dweller...your ''energy'' will transform, but not in a spiritual sense. *sorry if i read too much into that* Also, as per the ChrisNJ quote that everyone is jumping on. I agree with a lot you guys are saying. But one it becomes a moot point is by referring to oneself as ATHEIST, not as AN atheist. Just like i wouldn't say I'm a person who doesn't believe in astology, i wouldn't need that group label. I would just say, I don't believe in astrology.

I'll try to cover all of your questions. It will cover my case, and most atheists. 1. Atheists are usually logical and reasonable people, therefore you could refer to them as skeptics. Skeptics require evidence and proof in order to believe. Ergo, ESP, near death experiences, UFO....all that stuff...we don't believe in. 2. I don't believe in afterlife, it's something that religion has made up (IN MY OPINION) I think thats why religion will also never 'die' . Because people will never grow out of their fear of death, and their need for something to reassure them in death. 3. I think if you look at life through the eyes of an atheist it's actually much grander. Much more precious, something to cherish and fulfill. (theres no second chance). I HOPE no one brings up the old morality thing, thats been done to death. If you ask dawkins, sure he me be biased, but he's one of the most brilliant minds of our day, atheism does not mean immorality. If you have any other questions or disagree with one of my statements post a response, i'll be sure to try to do the same.

People being afraid of atheism is cultural. Some countries that are rated higher than north american countries as the best places to live (ex: norway & sweden) These countries are largely secular. It's actually strange for someone in these countries to admit they are religious. Whereas in america, I think it is just a hot topic, it's like civil rights were in the 60s. It's a new dawn for atheism and secularism. Look at the NY times bestseller list...god is not great, the god delusion...etc. People are starting to come out of the atheist closet. It's no longer something to be ashamed of. And i think its that new sensation that, hey, there's nothing wrong with being atheist that is really scaring religion and religious people.

Right now i'm being ignorant...i'm logging off...sorry about the earlier posts

Also, LOL to your ''Looking forward to life'' ... good luck with that.

Ok, fine, excuse me for trying to put everyone on the same level. If you would ask me something of a similar nature i would agree. EX: Would you think that a person who died for other people's sins is great. I would answer yes... i would'nt ask , did this start a religion in who'se name millions of people were killed, or anything else. I would stick to THAT scenario.

Wow, you really would love me (Also pro-euthanasia) LOL!

Alright, thats all i was looking for. Although i don't agree. And i specifically did NOT mention the procedure, this is after all hypothetical. Although you know what he has done you are supposed to pretend you don't. You were SUPPOSED to act like it was any OTHER type of doctor. I even explained why. So we could be on even ground. To AVOID all the morality stuff. What if he was a gynecologist in a muslim country, the best there is and it is illegal for him to practise because the religious laws state that no man other than a womans husband may touch her? THAT'S the kind of thinking i wanted you to do...i guess it's too out of the box for you. I'll try to keep my questions simple next time.

Wow, why even bother writing that...you could've read the scenario and answered yes or no...not that hard!