Obama's trip to Montana a big stage!

[FailureIsntAnOption 0]

No wait, narrow minded people.......sheesh!

[BJean 16]

What it sounds like you're saying with regard to this being a "90% Christian" nation, and be careful about our country being anything but a Christian nation because he'll turn away from us, etc., is that if we allow other religions to be practiced here, it will bring us down.

That is preposterous and a monstorous proclamation.

You think that because Bush said he was told by God to go into Iraq you think that it was the right thing to do? That is hard to grasp. I believe you, but I do find it hard to believe. You've said worse things, I guess.

You claim that you do not discriminate and you do not think others are inferior to you but what you don't seem to get is that you contradict that all the time with your posts.

when someone calls you on it in a very specific way, you use words to defend yourself. But your words are hollow. You sound no different than the Muslim extremists who have bastardized their religion to mean something that is not at all what their God intended. If God turns against people in the U.S., it will be the ones who think that only they have the answers and who are willing to go to war and kill people and use God as their excuse.

[KartMan 58]

This country will always be a christian nation.

It was not and is not, I'm bored with this argument. This is my new image of you:

You should consider changing your avatar.

[FailureIsntAnOption 0]

It was not and is not, I'm bored with this argument. This is my new image of you:

[ATTACH]17534[/ATTACH]

You should consider changing your avatar.

LMAO at KartMan

Patty,

Did you ever consider that maybe Bush was lying about God telling him to attack Iraq?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And who do you think you are to presume what my spiritual enlightenment is? You have no idea about my relationship to religion or God. Or what I believe or don't believe.

Please forgive me if I am wrong here, for I may be confusing you with someone else, but aren't you the one who posted "No." to a forum where I asked "Is God real?" If that wasn't you, I'm sorry.

PG: No, it wasn't me. And as for bush saying God told him to go into Iraq - well, I thought by now that was common knowledge - it's been in the news. Anyway, when we go to war I want the Pentagon and military leaders and actionable intelligence, a good reason (we were attacked first, for example) and an exit strategy, among other things. Not some spiritual advice. Anyone can claim to do things in the name of God, and many do. People kill their children because they say God told them it was the only way to save them from the devil.

We have a word for people who hear voices that tell them what to do. It's called: SCHIZOPHRENIA.

[KartMan 58]

Patty: Wrong! It is those who don't believe in the God who created them, who have spoiled our freedoms from the beginning. They are the ones who want to allow sin, yes sin, to be a part of this nation.

We are a nation of Laws, not Sins. There are no “Sins” written in the legal code. Some things that are illegal are considered Sins by some – but that is a coincidence. The significance is in the Law, not the Sin.

Patty: "Let everyone do as they please, that's true freedom"

Halleluiah, as long as it is legal that is.

Patty: "If a woman wants to have sex with another woman, let her, and if they want to raise a family, let them"

Absolutely. and a man with a man for that matter. I think in 20 years society will look back at people like you and wonder how could you have been so bigoted? I was watching footage the other day of the Civil Rights era and saw a black man on the ground being bludgeoned and kicked by whites. That is the same sort of bigotry, you don’t see it - but it’s true.

Patty: "Let anyone who wants to murder their babies that aren't born yet do so"

There you go again, mistaking your definition of “Sins” with “Laws”. Most reasonable people have come to agree that a woman’s right to choose outweighs the fetus’ right to exist. It’s not a pleasant thought, but it is fact of life. The law calls it an Abortion, not murder.

Patty: “Let's make prostitution legal"

I personally see a lot of merit in that idea. Seems like we had a thread on it around here somewhere…

Patty: "Let's legalize marajuana, too."

Just curious, is consuming alcohol a sin too? I haven’t been drunk or high in so long I honestly don’t remember, but aren’t they pretty much the same thing? I mean seriously, what really is the difference between drinking and smoking pot? In full disclosure, I don’t do either (I don’t like being drunk or high) – but the hypocrisy in banning marijuana baffles me.

Patty: God gave us standards to go by for our own good, not to penalize us and keep us from having fun. Christianity causes no divisions in this country, except for those who just want to do what they want to do and don't want anyone including God to tell them they can't do it! Liberals! sheesh!

No divisions? Really? I’m just gonna pretend you didn’t say that because it is a ludicrous statement. To be fair though, I would say that religion causes divisions, Christianity by no means has a monopoly on it though.

[pattygreen 5]

What it sounds like you're saying with regard to this being a "90% Christian" nation, and be careful about our country being anything but a Christian nation because he'll turn away from us, etc., is that if we allow other religions to be practiced here, it will bring us down.

No. Not if we allow other religions to practice here,( for there will always be others who don't believe that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life), but that if the majority of the people turn away from him and choose to let this nation turn it's back on him, he will bring us down. God says,"My Spirit will not always stride with man." (or) another scenerio would be if we decided as a Nation to cast Israel aside as one of our friends.

That is preposterous and a monstorous proclamation.

You think that because Bush said he was told by God to go into Iraq you think that it was the right thing to do? That is hard to grasp. I believe you, but I do find it hard to believe. You've said worse things, I guess.

Many Christians all over the world converse with God and he speaks back to them. You may think this is far fetched, but it is true. God speaks to me as well, every day.

You claim that you do not discriminate and you do not think others are inferior to you but what you don't seem to get is that you contradict that all the time with your posts.

Sorry that you feel that way about me. I don't feel that I am superior to anyone.

when someone calls you on it in a very specific way, you use words to defend yourself. But your words are hollow. You sound no different than the Muslim extremists who have bastardized their religion to mean something that is not at all what their God intended. If God turns against people in the U.S., it will be the ones who think that only they have the answers and who are willing to go to war and kill people and use God as their excuse.

Do you have a problem with war? Because if your neighbor was trying to take your home and your property, what would you do? Allow it? Or fight for your right to own it? Yes, the effects of war are terrible, but they are needed sometimes.

[pattygreen 5]

LMAO at KartMan

Patty,

Did you ever consider that maybe Bush was lying about God telling him to attack Iraq?

All people have the potential to tell lies. If I were to choose between a born again christian telling a lie and someone who wasn't a born again believer telling a lie, I would say that the chances are greater that the born again christian is telling the truth. So, only God knows if Bush was lying or not about God telling him to go into Iraq or not. (If he said that at all) But, being that I was once an unbeliever and then became a born again christian via the miracle of the new birth through the Holy Spirit, I know what it is like to be a new creature in Christ. For me to tell a lie is very unnerving on my conscience. I would feel as though I were saddening my Lord and Savior, and therefore, I choose not to lie. I'm not saying I never lie, for that would be a lie. I'm just saying that I am probably less likely to lie than an unbeliever whose conscience wouldn't bother him as much seeing he has noone to answer to for his lies. Most born again christians, like G. Bush, feel the same.

[pattygreen 5]

And who do you think you are to presume what my spiritual enlightenment is? You have no idea about my relationship to religion or God. Or what I believe or don't believe.

Please forgive me if I am wrong here, for I may be confusing you with someone else, but aren't you the one who posted "No." to a forum where I asked "Is God real?" If that wasn't you, I'm sorry.

PG: No, it wasn't me. And as for bush saying God told him to go into Iraq - well, I thought by now that was common knowledge - it's been in the news. Anyway, when we go to war I want the Pentagon and military leaders and actionable intelligence, a good reason (we were attacked first, for example) and an exit strategy, among other things. Not some spiritual advice. Anyone can claim to do things in the name of God, and many do. People kill their children because they say God told them it was the only way to save them from the devil.

We have a word for people who hear voices that tell them what to do. It's called: SCHIZOPHRENIA.

I believe that when we went to war, the pentagon, military leaders, dems and reps both, and the majority of the American people were all for it. And we were attacked first. As far as God advising him as to what to do, I believe it is a good thing for men in leadership to pray and seek his guidance. People who kill their babies because "God told them to" have mental issues and are irrelevent to this discussion. People who hear from God are not schizophrenic.

[Unforgettable 0]

I believe that when we went to war, the pentagon, military leaders, dems and reps both, and the majority of the American people were all for it. And we were attacked first. As far as God advising him as to what to do, I believe it is a good thing for men in leadership to pray and seek his guidance. People who kill their babies because "God told them to" have mental issues and are irrelevent to this discussion. People who hear from God are not schizophrenic.

So if god tells them to do something good, then they are following his path and he is always right. But if they say god tells them to do something bad, then you automatically write them off as having mental issues. Interesting.

This has become quite entertaining.

[pattygreen 5]

Patty: Wrong! It is those who don't believe in the God who created them, who have spoiled our freedoms from the beginning. They are the ones who want to allow sin, yes sin, to be a part of this nation.

We are a nation of Laws, not Sins. There are no “Sins” written in the legal code. Some things that are illegal are considered Sins by some – but that is a coincidence. The significance is in the Law, not the Sin.

Some laws that are in effect are sinful and some are good.

Patty: "Let everyone do as they please, that's true freedom"

Halleluiah, as long as it is legal that is.

Patty: "If a woman wants to have sex with another woman, let her, and if they want to raise a family, let them"

Absolutely. and a man with a man for that matter. I think in 20 years society will look back at people like you and wonder how could you have been so bigoted? I was watching footage the other day of the Civil Rights era and saw a black man on the ground being bludgeoned and kicked by whites. That is the same sort of bigotry, you don’t see it - but it’s true.

Once again, the civil rights era needed to be changed because their was no sin in the color of your skin. The sin was in the way white people enslaved black people. The gay movement doesn't need changing of our laws because what they want is sinful. I still don't understand what you don't get about that. For this is not the first time you have compared slavery with homosexuality. Slavery was wrong and needed correcting. If we allow gay marriages, that would be wrong and then that would need correcting as well.

Patty: "Let anyone who wants to murder their babies that aren't born yet do so"

There you go again, mistaking your definition of “Sins” with “Laws”. Most reasonable people have come to agree that a woman’s right to choose outweighs the fetus’ right to exist. It’s not a pleasant thought, but it is fact of life. The law calls it an Abortion, not murder.

I call it what it is. Murder.

Patty: “Let's make prostitution legal"

I personally see a lot of merit in that idea. Seems like we had a thread on it around here somewhere…

That's why I entered that one.

Patty: "Let's legalize marajuana, too."

Just curious, is consuming alcohol a sin too?

No. But getting drunk is.

I haven’t been drunk or high in so long I honestly don’t remember, but aren’t they pretty much the same thing?

Yes, and it would be great if we went bak to the days of NO alcohol. Think of all the deaths from DUI's that we could eliminate.

I mean seriously, what really is the difference between drinking and smoking pot? In full disclosure, I don’t do either (I don’t like being drunk or high) – but the hypocrisy in banning marijuana baffles me.

Patty: God gave us standards to go by for our own good, not to penalize us and keep us from having fun. Christianity causes no divisions in this country, except for those who just want to do what they want to do and don't want anyone including God to tell them they can't do it! Liberals! sheesh!

No divisions? Really? I’m just gonna pretend you didn’t say that because it is a ludicrous statement. To be fair though, I would say that religion causes divisions, Christianity by no means has a monopoly on it though.

It's a shame that you have rejected the one who made you in the first place. My heart goes out to you, because by doing so, you are missing out on a truely loving relationship with him. "Religion" is a dividing source, but being born again is not religion, it's a relationship with God without the interference of organized facilities.

[pattygreen 5]

So if god tells them to do something good, then they are following his path and he is always right. But if they say god tells them to do something bad, then you automatically write them off as having mental issues. Interesting.

This has become quite entertaining.

The words in the bible are God's words to us. If God tells you to do something that is contrary to his words in the bible, then it is not God speaking to you.

[Unforgettable 0]

The words in the bible are God's words to us. If God tells you to do something that is contrary to his words in the bible, then it is not God speaking to you.

Aren't you supposed to capitalize your h's when you say him and his?

Anywho, I suppose that argument is fair enough if you believe the words in the bible. Although the bible is a whole 'nother subject. If I were to write a sentence in English, and it were to get translated into a handful of different languages multiple times, and years were to pass and English was no longer used, then someone came across that sentence and tried to translate it into modern text...well let's just say it would probably turn into a completely different sentence than what I originally intended. Now do that to a whole book and look where we end up.

[pattygreen 5]

Aren't you supposed to capitalize your h's when you say him and his?

Anywho, I suppose that argument is fair enough if you believe the words in the bible. Although the bible is a whole 'nother subject. If I were to write a sentence in English, and it were to get translated into a handful of different languages multiple times, and years were to pass and English was no longer used, then someone came across that sentence and tried to translate it into modern text...well let's just say it would probably turn into a completely different sentence than what I originally intended. Now do that to a whole book and look where we end up.

Actually, the oldest scriptures ever found match up with those that have been translated from the original greek and english without any contradiction at all. God has his hand upon his word and he will not allow it to be changed or distorted, for it is by his words that mankind will find eternal life.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I believe that when we went to war, the pentagon, military leaders, dems and reps both, and the majority of the American people were all for it. And we were attacked first. As far as God advising him as to what to do, I believe it is a good thing for men in leadership to pray and seek his guidance. People who kill their babies because "God told them to" have mental issues and are irrelevent to this discussion. People who hear from God are not schizophrenic.

Not true, our war with Iraq came from the inside out - from the closed chambers of Cheney & Rumsfeld who told bush what to do. Then they did a very effective job of selling it to the American people by a series of lies - first by connecting it to 9/11 (it wasn't and we weren't attacked by Iraq) and then the lies about WMD's and the imminent dangers of chemical warfare (remember how they hung Powell out there with some vial of poison to show?) and the mushroom cloud? The country and thus the American people were reeling from 9/11 and willing to give the president the benefit of the doubt - but as these lies unraveled, the people saw the Iraqi war for the big lie it was.

As far as who voted for it - well the republicans made it very clear that those who voted against it would be branded unpatriotic and on the side of the terrorists. But I am so proud that Obama and the late Ted Kennedy voted against it.