IF the economy is the #1 issue in America why would you vote for McCain? He stated not long ago (Sept 15,2008) that the fundamentals of our economy is good:blink:. Seriously? Then just today or yesterday, he said the problem with the economy is corporate greed and would have a commission (much like the like 9/11 commission) study it. WTF?! So basically he is saying he doesn't want to deal with the economy! AND lets not forget his TOP economic advisor stated just a few months ago in JUNE/JULY of THIS year that there was nothing wrong with our economy and that the American people were a bunch of "whiners". Does this sound like a person who is for the people? It is just infuriating to me that this race has become "tight"! I mean it's pretty bad when Karl Rove says the McCain campaign is lying and running a bad campaign!! UGH I will never understand what people see in McCain!

What is wrong with telling someone that it's a sin to murder someone else? It is a hard decision for a 13 year old to make,but it's a decision the baby could live with. It's not about what is best for the 13 yr.old, but what's best for the baby.

Because I don't see that beating someone up is an effective way for me, a sinner under Christ's love, to deal with another person who Christ's loves as much.

It was the same approach when I had the chance to go into a prison and preach to some convicted prisoners. I believe going in with love is a better path.

I agree with you both. I am not at all "better" than the mother facing an unplanned pregnancy. But if someone came to me and told me they were going to commit suicide or kill their neighbor, I would do every single thing in my power to stop them. There is no difference between those two examples and a pregnant mother considering abortion.

I voted for McCain/Palin because I believe in their mission for our country. I also believe he is the only qualified candidate. )

BTW, Steve, back on FOCA just for a moment, I just read this in an email I received (emphasis mine):

Both sides of the abortion debate readily admit the measure makes unlimited abortions throughout pregnancy a national law and legal right, and that it would invalidate virtually all abortion limits approved by state legislatures in all 50 states. But the bill could have the affect of closing down Catholic hospitals that refuse to do abortions. Here's how: As Cardinal Justin Rigali of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia warned in September, the FOCA bill "forbids government at all levels to 'discriminate' against the exercise of this [abortion] right 'in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.'" Michael Moses, a top attorney for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, adds that the language of FOCA is so far-reaching that it will remove any conscience clause measures from state laws that protect doctors, hospitals and medical professionals who don't want to be involved in abortions. Moses' reading of the proposed legislation is that if abortion is a fundamental right that can't ever be infringed, then every hospital and medical center must do abortions -- including Catholic and other religious or private hospitals that object to do them.

The net effect? Catholic hospitals would very likely shut their doors.

That may be true, Gadgetlady. But I feel that privately owned hospitals, especially a religious organization, would be exempt, even if it took the catholic church taking the government on in court. Certainly physicians would still as individuals have the right to choose.

That may be true, Gadgetlady. But I feel that privately owned hospitals, especially a religious organization, would be exempt, even if it took the catholic church taking the government on in court. Certainly physicians would still as individuals have the right to choose.

I disagree. It doesn't matter what you "feel"; under this law, as I read it, they would not.

Don't forget, in Massachusetts, when the same-sex marriage law required that all adoption agencies place babies with same-sex couples, Catholic Charities, which had been serving the community for over a hundred years, closed its doors. The law ignored the "religious freedom" aspect of the matter.

For more information, go to Boston and ABC News: End of Adoptions as One Agency Protests Gay Parents (the first one's a little more comprehensive).

Albeit a different issue, we should also recall that pastors in Canada have been arrested for condemning homosexuality in their churches. Here's just one link for that one: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66704

The bottom line is we don't live in a vacuum. The people we vote for have the power to make or execute laws (depending on the political office). The laws they make have consequences, whether intended or unintended, on other aspects of public and private life. I don't think it's a big leap to see FOCA impacting private religious organizations in this manner.

'The people we vote for have the power to make or execute laws'

This is so true, and that is one of the many reasons why i'm choosing McCain/Palin. At least we might get someone in there who will consider praying to God for guidance over each day. We will get someone who considers killing the unborn a tragedy and someone who feels that the marriage vows should be for a man and a woman only. Having decent morals is where a persons character begins. Without a moral and upright character, you have decietfulness and greed. Palin herself carried a child with a disability; she knew about it and delivered her baby anyway. That to me is a woman of character. May God bless her.

Obama seems to me to be a man who will do or say anything to further his career in politics. He is not trustworthy. Anyone who doesn't have a care in the world about a defenseless baby in the womb could care less about anyones life. When you don't consider Gods ways when making your decisions in life, you will fail. I have found that God's advice given to man in the bible is the answer to every dilema. Do you want to know if it's ok to smoke? Read what God has to say. "Don't harm your body in any way." Do you want to know if homosexuality should be allowed? Read what God has to say. "No, it is an abomination." Do you want to know if You should hang around with people who party? He says "Do not be unequally yoked with them." Do you want to know if abortion should be the mother's choice? God says that if you kill an unbirn baby, YOU are to be killed.(there it is, the death penalty)It is murder.

He has the answers. It's just amazing how many people will say that they believe in God, yet because they want to do what they want to do in life, decide to pick and choose what they will obey out of the bible. If God's words are true, and He is true, then his answers to these dilemas and debates should settle it.

I'm not saying McCain is going to be obedient to God when making all of his decisions as the president, but I only have those 2 to choose from, and He seems the lesser of the 2 evils.

Personally, I firmly believe that religion should be kept out of politics. Not everyone believes in your God and not everyone wants to see our country being run based upon what a bible says. Besides, there is that whole separation of church and state thing!

As for homosexuals, if your God thinks it is so bad, and you believe he is the creator of all and people are created in his likeness, then why did he create homosexuals? And, who is the government to judge whether homosexuality is right or wrong. Who is anyone to judge whether homosexuality is right or wrong. Unless, you are free from "sin" and therefore in the elite position of being able to pass judgement upon others and force your beliefs upon others who do not share those beliefs. Does it really hurt you if two people of the same sex are in love, committed to one another and want to solidify that love and commitment by entering into the vows of marriage with one another? I know it doesn't hurt me.

When you don't consider Gods ways when making your decisions in life, you will fail. I have found that God's advice given to man in the bible is the answer to every dilema. Do you want to know if it's ok to smoke? Read what God has to say. "Don't harm your body in any way." Do you want to know if homosexuality should be allowed? Read what God has to say. "No, it is an abomination." Do you want to know if You should hang around with people who party? He says "Do not be unequally yoked with them." Do you want to know if abortion should be the mother's choice? God says that if you kill an unbirn baby, YOU are to be killed.(there it is, the death penalty)It is murder.

He has the answers. It's just amazing how many people will say that they believe in God, yet because they want to do what they want to do in life, decide to pick and choose what they will obey out of the bible. If God's words are true, and He is true, then his answers to these dilemas and debates should settle it.

If somehow you want to put me in the catagory of sinner who doesn't agree with God because I don't agree with you... so be it. I wasn't put here in this life to impress someone in Connecticut that I have never even met. Nor do I have to prove my faith.

"What would Jesus do" is fine for wristbands and bumper stickers, and has some real truth. (Sean Hannity's "What Would Ronald Reagan Do?" is stupid, but WWJD is OK).

But if you want to get down to it your pious stand on the moutaintop shouting "Sinner, Repent" doesn't do it.

Jesus said "the greatest commandment is this: that you love the Lord your God... and the second is like it, that you love your neighbor as yourself."

But like I said, I'm really not worried about impressing others, and it is really not my desire to tell you that you are wrong for voting your conscience.

'The people we vote for have the power to make or execute laws'

This is so true, and that is one of the many reasons why i'm choosing McCain/Palin. At least we might get someone in there who will consider praying to God for guidance over each day. We will get someone who considers killing the unborn a tragedy and someone who feels that the marriage vows should be for a man and a woman only. Having decent morals is where a persons character begins. Without a moral and upright character, you have decietfulness and greed. Palin herself carried a child with a disability; she knew about it and delivered her baby anyway. That to me is a woman of character. May God bless her.

Obama seems to me to be a man who will do or say anything to further his career in politics. He is not trustworthy. Anyone who doesn't have a care in the world about a defenseless baby in the womb could care less about anyones life. When you don't consider Gods ways when making your decisions in life, you will fail. I have found that God's advice given to man in the bible is the answer to every dilema. Do you want to know if it's ok to smoke? Read what God has to say. "Don't harm your body in any way." Do you want to know if homosexuality should be allowed? Read what God has to say. "No, it is an abomination." Do you want to know if You should hang around with people who party? He says "Do not be unequally yoked with them." Do you want to know if abortion should be the mother's choice? God says that if you kill an unbirn baby, YOU are to be killed.(there it is, the death penalty)It is murder.

He has the answers. It's just amazing how many people will say that they believe in God, yet because they want to do what they want to do in life, decide to pick and choose what they will obey out of the bible. If God's words are true, and He is true, then his answers to these dilemas and debates should settle it.

I'm not saying McCain is going to be obedient to God when making all of his decisions as the president, but I only have those 2 to choose from, and He seems the lesser of the 2 evils.

I think anyone who believes the crap that you just typed is a bigot. Or maybe just uneducated, if I felt like being nice.

Whether I agree or disagree with abortion, I have great respect for anti choice people. I understand that in your minds, you are protecting someone. I have made it very clear that while I may not agree with making abortion illegal, I respect beliefs. Gadgetlady especially really believes what she is saying and I think it comes from a good place inside her heart.

It's the homosexual comment that makes you look like a fool. You take the two vague bible verses on homosexuality from a book that has been corrupted so many human hands that it is almost unrecognizable and use it to spread your hate on society. That statement you have made shows your true colors.

I can ignore this crap, usually. I do often, because I live in a country where someone is allowed to hate. I am allowed to love (not get married though, because that would corrupt marriage right? Like straight people that have been married twelve times keep it sacred? OR Las Vegas drive through weddings. No it's the gays that will destroy marriage)...but not right now when Proposition hate or 8 if you will is corrupting this important election.

Get off my back, our backs, and mind your own business. Tell me how me having sex, me getting married is hurting you. Look, I won't even accidently get pregnant so that you can taunt me if I couldn't take care of the baby and call me a "Murderer" and such. I am the ultimate safe sex.

I know who I am, and I am not a abomination. I know my own relationship with God and I am happy and content. I wish people like the ones who take the time to call others an abomination and the ones that start hate filled things like proposition 8 would maybe work on being a little happier too, so they could stop trying to spread their misery on people who aren't hurting them by living there life the way God made them.

And Keep your personal beliefs off and out of my body, thank you very much.

I think anyone who believes the crap that you just typed is a bigot. Or maybe just uneducated, if I felt like being nice.

....

I am allowed to love (not get married though, because that would corrupt marriage right? Like straight people that have been married twelve times keep it sacred? OR Las Vegas drive through weddings. No it's the gays that will destroy marriage)...but not right now when Proposition hate or 8 if you will is corrupting this important election.

And Keep your personal beliefs off and out of my body, thank you very much.

amazing post RSG! that last line is amazing!

FURTHER MORE!!! I did not "PICK" to be who I am. I do not choose anything but to accept myself and love myself and do no harm to others.

I treat people fairly, I donate to charities, I gave up my time and my little bit of money to the shelters during both Katrina and Gustav. I care deeply for everyone around me.

I haven't failed at anything in life. I have a wonderful family, an amazing, intelligent partner, I am an English Major (obviously I take more time with my grammer and spelling at school), I paint, I sing. I am proud of who I am and what I have accomplished in life.

Infact I only have two problems....1. Weight, and 2. Prejudice, ignorant people

I'm taking care of one now, and the other will have to take care of themselves.

Edited November 3, 200817 yr by ReadySteadyGo
so people woudn't make silly comments

OR Las Vegas drive through weddings. .

i loved my vegas wedding:wink:

appreciated your post RSG!!!!:thumbup: BOTH of them!

amazing post RSG! that last line is amazing!

Thank you so much LJM

RSG, glad to see you in here standing up for what is right!