IF the economy is the #1 issue in America why would you vote for McCain? He stated not long ago (Sept 15,2008) that the fundamentals of our economy is good:blink:. Seriously? Then just today or yesterday, he said the problem with the economy is corporate greed and would have a commission (much like the like 9/11 commission) study it. WTF?! So basically he is saying he doesn't want to deal with the economy! AND lets not forget his TOP economic advisor stated just a few months ago in JUNE/JULY of THIS year that there was nothing wrong with our economy and that the American people were a bunch of "whiners". Does this sound like a person who is for the people? It is just infuriating to me that this race has become "tight"! I mean it's pretty bad when Karl Rove says the McCain campaign is lying and running a bad campaign!! UGH I will never understand what people see in McCain!

Of course times are different now than they were back in the days of Jesus. You can't just sell off all of your possessions and expect to survive. But too many people today put their own wants above others needs.

I freely admit I put my own wants above others' needs. I am not a selfless individual and I will always put my husband, children and myself above any others. I am not ashamed to admit that I enjoy the fruits of my labor and that I am glad that my children have very comfortable and even luxurious lives. Both my husband and I work very hard to provide this lifestyle for our family. There is nothing shameful in that. We pay what we feel is more than our fair share of the taxes and we donate to charity throughout the year. We also give blood and help out extended family members financially. Why are you trying to paint people like me with a "shame brush" because we say we don't want any more of our money taken from us involuntarily?

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Donna113

The problem is Patty, that not everyone believes that God created them. You believe it, I believe it, but it means nothing to someone who does not believe. So you can't expect to have an arguement with someone who doesn't believe what you do. Someone has to come to know God and follow in Jesus's path on their own, not by someone shoving it down their throats. I spent my younger years going to Catholic mass and have tons of religion shoved on me. I resented it and I hated it. I did not want to be near it. Now that I am older and I am chooing this for myself am I finally feeling the sense of what Jesus meant for a church to be.

And I never said you attacked me. Nor was I trying to attack you. I just think that sometimes people are so passionate about what they believe in that they lose focus on how to make their message heard in a productive way. Do you really think that calling people who are pro-choice murders is not harsh and is in any way productive?

And if you think I was for President elect Obama, I was not. However, he is going to be the leader of our country. He has 4 years to prove me wrong, and I certainly hope he does.

As for the goverment taking our money, well the counrty is not going to fund itself. I wish that we could give as we wished and not had the governement "taking" it. However, until this country is full of people who put other's needs before their own wants, it is not going to happen.

I freely admit I put my own wants above others' needs. I am not a selfless individual and I will always put my husband, children and myself above any others. I am not ashamed to admit that I enjoy the fruits of my labor and that I am glad that my children have a very comfortable and even luxurious lives. Both my husband and I work very hard to provide this lifestyle for our family. There is nothing shameful in that. We pay what we feel is more than our fair share of the taxes and we donate to charity throughout the year. We also give blood and help out extended family members financially. Why are you trying to paint people like me with a "shame brush" because we say we don't want any more of our money taken from us involuntarily?

Donna I am not trying to paint anyone with a "shame brush". I said most people, not all people. For everyone like you who does their part to help others, there are plenty who do absolutely nothing and still demand more. I am sorry if I was not very clear in my meaning. I wish that everyone was free to give as they pleased and the governemt did not take money involuntarily. But unfortunately there are too many who would be unwilling to give anything at all. And there are people who are in true need. What we need is a system that can define those in true need from those who feel a sense of entitlement to welfare.

I can't believe what I just read from you Patty...I just can't believe it! You just really do not get it, do you? Ughhh, oh well...so sad!

And there are people who are in true need. What we need is a system that can define those in true need from those who feel a sense of entitlement to welfare.

I'm not blaming the needy and I don't believe there are very many with a sense of entitlement to welfare. I think the reason why the needy aren't getting the help they need is because of the red tape bureaucracy of government. What we need is someone to fix the government. I hope Obama is that man.

Steve, well said.

Oh, I've avoided this thread for EVER, but I've got to hop in on it just cuz.

As for paying taxes and donating to charity and making money or the "shame brush"

Rock on for making money and spending money. Woot and all that good stuff, our democracy/economy is only helped by people who make and spend.

As for paying taxes, in our democracy do not forget the the government is created by the people for the people. We give money so we get. We get plowed roads, we get roads. We get education, we get and get and get.

I just reread The Constitution. It's pretty powerful. If you want to be inspired to pay your taxes read that document.

Some other contries get more from their goverments and some others get less. But what makes us unique is that we choose what is coming to us. It might take decades to make changes but our three branches make it possible.

The only last thing I'm going to say is regardless on money/taxes/economy find joy in your life that is not money-polictal related. Be it through God or walking in the grass. It's really quite an amazing place and it's great to be alive.

I'm not blaming the needy and I don't believe there are very many with a sense of entitlement to welfare. I think the reason why the needy aren't getting the help they need is because of the red tape bureaucracy of government. What we need is someone to fix the government. I hope Obama is that man.

Even though I did not vote for him, I hope he is that man too.

I do believe that governement is part of the problem, but also many who need help can't get it because of all the people who abuse the system. Those I see at the grocery store paying for food with WIC coupons while wearing designer clothes and buying booze and cigarrettes with cash. Those who file unemployment while getting paid big bucks under the table. Those who claim marital separation to get support while their spouse is still living with them and they never were separated. Any other scam to get money for nothing. These people must feel some sense of entitlement because why else would you deceive the system? I really believe it happens more often than we think.

Juli, 3 woots to you for reminding us "The only last thing I'm going to say is regardless on money/taxes/economy find joy in your life that is not money-polictal related. Be it through God or walking in the grass. It's really quite an amazing place and it's great to be alive."

Babygirl, those scammers and cheaters exist in every level and facet of the socio-economic ladder. They just cheat differently. I don't think it's a sense of entitlement that causes them to act that way, they act that way because they are dishonest, cheaters and thieves.

Babygirl, those scammers and cheaters exist in every level and facet of the socio-economic ladder. They just cheat differently.

I agree with you there. I may believe in a flat tax for everyone, but along wtih that flat tax needs to come a disappearance of loopholes. Why can't we all just be generous and get along

Government is part of the problem because it is massive and when things get big they get hard to oversee.

Are there checks and balances in place? Some. Do we need more? yea. Does that mean more government? Well sort of. Unless they finesse the business model where people strive to be economically prudent and make good fact based decisions.

The most promising thing about Obama's campaign, and I'm a supporter but I'm also and MBA student, is that he ran it like roll out to a start up business. And a smart one at that.

It gives me hope that he can put some of those similar strategies into reshaping how parts of the government functions.

We may be R's and D's but we are all capitalists. We all deal with money and understand how it can be used for good and bad. If he taps into that, and I think he will, things are going to change.

How much would that tax amount be?

Granted, I am one who wants strict interpretation of the second ammendment - if we must insist on the right to bear arms, then cool... everyone gets to own as many muzzle-load muskets as they want - it was good enough for the framers of the constitution, it should be good enough for you.

Steve, I perceive you as being very moderate. And nobody appreciates that more than me. But I disagree with you on this one. I don't think the constitution spells out muskets explicitly.....and by that line of reasoning, one could say that everybody is entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, as long as those things don't require electricity, or medicine or the steam engine.

Donna I am not trying to paint anyone with a "shame brush".

That's too bad. My wife painted me with a "shame brush" awhile back. It tickled.

That's too bad. My wife painted me with a "shame brush" awhile back. It tickled.

I usually use one of those long sticks with the rubbery tassels on the end to do my tickling :thumbup:

Plain and bbygrl

I laughed out loud. I really did.

I will have to compare two and tell you which one is better.