IF the economy is the #1 issue in America why would you vote for McCain? He stated not long ago (Sept 15,2008) that the fundamentals of our economy is good:blink:. Seriously? Then just today or yesterday, he said the problem with the economy is corporate greed and would have a commission (much like the like 9/11 commission) study it. WTF?! So basically he is saying he doesn't want to deal with the economy! AND lets not forget his TOP economic advisor stated just a few months ago in JUNE/JULY of THIS year that there was nothing wrong with our economy and that the American people were a bunch of "whiners". Does this sound like a person who is for the people? It is just infuriating to me that this race has become "tight"! I mean it's pretty bad when Karl Rove says the McCain campaign is lying and running a bad campaign!! UGH I will never understand what people see in McCain!

And did you tell that child that she had another child growing inside of her and that even though she didn't like the circumstances that she was in, to get rid of the "problem' would be a sin and unpleasing to God according to his word? Did you tell her that even though she would have to sacrifice for the next 9 months, that it was what would be best for the life inside her and that she could give the child to a wonderful couple who longed for children and couldn't have any on their own?

I've also held the hand of a 13 year old girl who was pregnant and homeless because her parents disowned her for her action. She was not fit to be a parent. And for the record, I tried to convince her to give it up for adoption. She wasn't ready for that.

Problem is, she was already a parent. She's now just the parent of a dead baby rather than a live one. It is a heartbreaking situation when something like this occurs -- that I have never denied -- but to say it is acceptable to kill an innocent person because of the social circumstance, however heartbreaking it is, is wrong. Some choices have victims. This particular choice has two. I hope you assisted her with counseling after the abortion.

There's a difference between giving to charity and giving to the Government. I happily donate to charity as do my very young children. We're all a bunch of softies in our household when it comes to the needy. I don't consider paying taxes a charitable event. I pay taxes because if I don't, I go to jail. If I were given an option of paying $50,000 in taxes or giving $60,000 to a charity of my choice, I'd happily give $60,000 to charity. I'm not saying I'm against helping others, I'm saying I'm against giving my money to someone else to decide how that money should be spent. I want a choice in how my money is spent. I understand that for practical reasons, that won't work very well in a Republic the size of the USA; however, the less I pay in taxes, the more discretionary funds I have to give to charity and support my facvorite organizations.

Well said. I still think we should be able to take a percentage of our taxes (10%? 20%? more?), bypass the government, and donate them directly to charity. Imagine if we cut the middleman (government bureaucracy) out of the mix and the charities actually helping people got 100% of the money? What a better job they'd do with it!

Parents can't legally disown their 13 year old children for any reason, and sadly, if they do, they can live in foster homes while the parents go to court for their actions.

I've read Exodus. Also Jeremiah (while you were in your mother's womb, I knew you).

I've also held the hand of a 13 year old girl who was pregnant and homeless because her parents disowned her for her action. She was not fit to be a parent. And for the record, I tried to convince her to give it up for adoption. She wasn't ready for that.

So it is not my first choice, but it is a choice that I think should be legal.

And please don't question my faith or my work as a pastor. You don't know me that well, and if you continue, I might just have to pray for you. :rolleyes2:

Steve, you sound like a great pastor to me. My mother died when my sister was 12 and I was 14. We were raised by an alcoholic father and she tended to get her attention from boys at that time. A priest at the Catholic HS we both attended knew somehow what was going on and tried to get her on the pill. This I didn't find out until much later and wish had been able to. She became pregnant at 14 and didn't let any of us know until it was too late to abort. We all feel things would have been better for her if she was able to do so. I know it's hard for people to understand that and I've never had an abortion myself but in a situation like that it would have save her a lot of grief that's she's gone through ever since. Take care Nancy.

in a situation like that it would have save her a lot of grief that's she's gone through ever since.

Do you think abortion is a grief-less decision?

I spent a great deal of time with the girl regarding the choice, the parents in their reaction, the boy that got her pregnant, and the youth group that she was a part of.

And I did not in any way try to make her feel like a sinner for her choice, but instead tried to share the love of Christ to show her a better direction.

Parents can't legally disown their 13 year old children for any reason, and sadly, if they do, they can live in foster homes while the parents go to court for their actions.

Go into the hills in East Texas and say that. It happens more often than you might think.

There's a difference between giving to charity and giving to the Government. I happily donate to charity as do my very young children. We're all a bunch of softies in our household when it comes to the needy. I don't consider paying taxes a charitable event. I pay taxes because if I don't, I go to jail. If I were given an option of paying $50,000 in taxes or giving $60,000 to a charity of my choice, I'd happily give $60,000 to charity. I'm not saying I'm against helping others, I'm saying I'm against giving my money to someone else to decide how that money should be spent. I want a choice in how my money is spent. I understand that for practical reasons, that won't work very well in a Republic the size of the USA; however, the less I pay in taxes, the more discretionary funds I have to give to charity and support my facvorite organizations.

I understand what you are saying Donna I just know many democrats and my brothers in particular who feel it's the way our country should work. I feel they are good people and both work two jobs and mainly work in a profession that helps people, teaching etc... This is how they feel and I'm proud of them for it. Nancy.

And I did not in any way try to make her feel like a sinner for her choice, but instead tried to share the love of Christ to show her a better direction.

Absolutely the right way to go. It sounds like you believe abortion was not the right answer, even though she made the decision to abort.

thanks gadgetlady. I'm glad you understand. It really (no exaggeration) means alot.

Sorry about the diet comment, Jack.

Do you think abortion is a grief-less decision?

No I don't.

What is wrong with telling someone that it's a sin to murder someone else? It is a hard decision for a 13 year old to make,but it's a decision the baby could live with. It's not about what is best for the 13 yr.old, but what's best for the baby.

thanks gadgetlady. I'm glad you understand. It really (no exaggeration) means alot.

Thank you for putting in the "no exaggeration" -- I'm not sure how I would have read that statement had you not.

As much as people try to paint me as a raving lunatic, a judgment, inflexible person, it's just not true. I, too, have sat with pregnant mothers, cried with them, and tried to help them not to make a critical mistake. I have sat with some of them after their abortions and cried with them as well. I have rejoiced at some of their babies' births. I have walked hand-in-hand with them to post-abortion counseling to help them get some healing. I have watched some of them cry at releasing their babies to an adoptive family, and I have watched some of them follow the progress of their birth-children up to and through adulthood.

Some of these mothers have been people I don't know well, and some of them have been dear friends. I do not believe in chastising mothers in crisis pregnancy situations, but I also believe they need to know the truth and they need to be told, gently, that the thing growing inside of them is, indeed, a baby. But just because some of them make the choice to abort doesn't erase the fact that they are parents, and it doesn't make abortion any less wrong.

Back to the topic-at-hand, why are people voting for McCain, here's an expanded release of something I posted earlier (not sure if it was on this thread or not) -- are all of you OK with Obama's lowering the "rich" threshold to $50 - $70k?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBIISfcqXO0]YouTube - Slippery Slope 3.0[/ame]