Dog with an ATTITUDE!

hagerteresa · May 28, 2005

I need help and advice regarding one of my dogs. We took her in when she was 10 months old after she had been in an abused situation. She was a rescue dog. She is terrified of belts and any object that seems threatening but she is also very defensive and not trusting. She is also territorial and jealous of everything. We have had her for 4 years and she is one of two welsh corgis. The other we got as a puppy and is as sweet as can be. I get bit all the time by her. Its often just enough to tear a pantleg or bruise and scratch the skin but it hurts and I'm tired of it. It has been going on since we got her. She has more respect for my hubby but even then she still bites him on occassion. He got it two nights in a row when he was trying to come to bed. She has had obedience training, agility training, etc. She is just so independent she refuses to trust and comply with anyone. I asked our vet what she suggests and was hoping for some doggy anti anxiety pills but she thinks I should just have her put to sleep as there are plenty of sweet dogs out there that need love and a home. We have had Zoey so long and she can be really sweet at times that I would feel awful doing that. I am thinking about giving her a portion of my Wellbutrin (I never take it but keep it around in case I decide to quit smoking) and seeing what affect that has on her. I couldn't find any websites about people who have tried giving their dogs that but I did read the drug trials report and dogs were used in the trials. At HIGH doses negative affects were seen (seizures and liver cancer) but humans had the same risks at high doses (greater than 300 mg/day). My pills are 150 mg and if I split it in 3rds or 4ths than it would only be 30-50 mg. I don't know what else to do. I am also bringing back the spray bottle technique. It saved me yesterday (she HATES water). She had already bit me once yesterday in the ankle hard enough to bruise and scratch it and she came at me again. Just as her lips touched my pantleg I nailed her right between the eyes with the spray bottle. She was so surprised she jumped 10 feet back in an instant. She is one reason we don't feel comfortable having children yet, nor having kids around often. We have to be SO cautious when they are around. Ussually she is fine but we always are on edge lest she do something. Anyway any advice would be great, Teresa

vinesqueen · May 28, 2005

Oh Teresa, this is a very difficult situation. A couple of years ago we decided that we wanted a second dog and got a puppy.

We had to put him down because he was a vicious dog. Our other dog is as sweet as can be, but this pup was just not right in the head. The final staw was when I woke up with his teeth in my jaw.

I didn't want to risk having some poor innocent kid get bitten by this little dog. He wasn't very big, only 25 pounds, but he was so bad the obedience trainer refused to work with him.

It sounds like you are having a similar problem. It is not acceptable for dogs to bite. Ever. Can you afford the liability that this dog poses? I'm not just speaking from a legal standpoint. But also from a psychic standpoint.

Can you really aford to live in fear? Because it sounds like you are living in fear now. Do you really want to continue to live this way?

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

dylansmom · May 28, 2005

I know exactly what you're saying. Our dog Enrique was our "only child" for 4 years. He was used to it being just the 3 of us (hubby, me, and him) and he had a little bit of difficulty adjusting when we brought Dylan home.

I worked with the dog when I was pregnant, and used a doll to show affection to. I'd then ask the dog if he wanted to see the "baby" and he bit the "baby doll" twice, always on the hand when "it" tried petting him.

So I worked with him more and more before Dylan was born and he was to the point where he tolerated it, so I thought we'd be ok.

Well, things were ok until Dylan got old enough to start crawling around. The dog would run and hide from Dylan, but Dylan didn't get it to leave the dog alone. Obviously I intervened CONSTANTLY, trying to teach Dylan to leave the doggy alone.

Well, I wasn't fast enough the one time and Enrique bit Dylan on the hand. Thank God it wasn't a bad bite, and didn't leave scars or anything, but it was enough for us to know that we had to find the dog a new good home.

It totally broke our hearts and we both cried for a week over it. But I was assured by the kennel owner who said that he went to a good home with an elderly couple who had grown grandchildren, and no small children around. That did my heart good, and I had to let it go at that.

I don't know what your answer is, but I can certainly sympathize with you. NO matter what the answer will not be easy, but just know that in the end you will have done the right thing for YOU.

Best wishes to you, and I'll say a prayer for you. ~Kelly

DtDtKty · May 30, 2005

Teresa- It sounds like a difficult situation. I am so sorry.

As far as medication goes, we have a cat who is on an anti-anxiety/anti-depressant. He is on Elavil (Amitryptiline), one pill every night. It is a human medication that is commonly used in animals. You may want to ask your vet about it. He is a much calmer, cooler, and well behaved cat now. Before, anything and everything made him mad and he would spray all over the house. It was difficult to have him sedated at first, but it has made things so much better since he is one of four kitties.

Hugs to you.

DeLarla · May 30, 2005

I've taken Elavil before and it knocks me the heck out. I never knew they gave it to animals though. I prefer getting him stoned than to killing the poor guy. I guess you have to believe in the death penalty if you want to put a dog to sleep. I personally could never kill an animal. In your shoes I guess I'd just keep him an outside dog and not let anyone around him. Or cook him up like one of them bunnies with sauce. NO, you know I don't mean that but I don't want you killing the bunnies either!

vinesqueen · May 30, 2005

I don't think you do need to believe in the death penalty Lisa. At least in my case, that isn't quite true. I just don't believe in letting things or people suffer. I suppose that has something to do with my belief in reincarnation and that everything has a soul.

The case we had with our poor little dog was extreme. Tipper wouldn't let anyone come near me without threatening them, and our very old dog was terrified of him. The lesser of two evils for me was putting him down because he was viscious. (hope I spelled that right. I can't tell the difference between viscious meaning mean as opposed to viscous meaning a thick and oily substance. stupid dysxlea) The greater of the evils would be if I let this poor little dog bite maul a child or another dog.

The puppy prozac was not effective for us.

hagerteresa · May 31, 2005

I'm going to continue to give it to her and see what happens. I've talked to my vet before about getting something because I think it is anxiety related but she doesn't seem to think so. She thinks its more like her just wanting to be the dominating one in the household. She said medication won't help that. I like my vet a lot and generally think she is very good at what she does. I'm her housekeeper as well, so its nice being able to ask her questions whenever I see her and I feel confident that she would treat my dogs for any major emergency and deal with the money aspects later. I really do believe Zoey's problem is anxiety though. Thanks for all the advice, Teresa

DtDtKty · May 31, 2005

Hang in there Teresa. I will be interested to see how the medication goes.

dallasdoll · May 31, 2005

i had this problem with one of my pets.... my original vet told met to put him to sleep... i couldnt do it and got a second opinion.. even though i was tired of getting bit (i have scarred hands) and the lashing out was so unpredictable...and it was getting worse as he aged....

anyway... the second vet i went to gave me a prescription for amiltryptilene.... i gave it to him every day.... 1/2 a pill... and it was a miracle thing for him.... he did sleep more and was more "laid back" i guess... but i would take that over biting anyday..

so i would suggest you get a 2nd opinion and ask for the drug by name.... it really worked for us.

DtDtKty · May 31, 2005

Amitriptyline is the same as Elavil. It does work wonders. Our cat, Crombie, still occasionally has behavior problems, but overall he is much more laid back and manageable.

New Hope · May 31, 2005

Teresa, I know how much you love your puppies! I hope that there is a medication that can help him. Besides the Water gun, have you tried a shaker (basically a sealed can w/pennies in it). The sudden, loud noise scares them and makes them stop what they were doing. Do you think possibly that it's a jealousy issue? He's jealous of having to share you with your DH or the other puppy, maybe? They can be little stinkers and when they've come from an abused situation, you have no way of knowing what hurts - physically and mentally - that they've been through. I know if anyone can give this guy a fair shot, it will be Teresa! (((Hugs))) sweet girl!

Zoe · May 31, 2005

Teresa, what does the vet think about giving the dog Wellbutrin? I know you said the vet is in favor of euthanizing the dog, but it sounds as if you want to try an anti-anxiety drug first, and you should find out the possible side effects in animals before you proceed. Remember that the drug trial dogs were not chosen to see if the medicine worked on curing their symptoms, but just to measure side effects. I suggest you talk to your vet again. I've heard of pets going on Prozac with good results, but I don't know about Wellbutrin.

Good luck to you. This is a hard decision, and I don't blame you for trying medication as a last result. (You also might want to ask the vet if antidepressant/antianxiety drugs will take weeks to kick in, as they often do in humans.)

hagerteresa · June 23, 2005

Update: I'm having more issues with that dog with the attitude. She bit the crap out of me last night and its one of the more nasty wounds she has given me. My vet doesn't think any medication would help her attitude and habits and thinks she needs to be put to sleep (has thought that for a long time) but my mom is going to check with a friend who's husband is a vet. One of my concerns about having children eventually relates to the future of this dog too. I KNOW I would NEVER be able to trust this dog with children. Our roommate recently started to get his 3 year old on weekends again and we have to be absolutely and totally cautious about keeping the dog and child completely seperate. On the other hand our other dog is wonderful with the child and they act like Timmie with Lassie. I hate having to throw one dog out in the yard while letting the other one stay in and play so often they both go out but it is just getting frustrating, dangerous and ridiculous. I am going to be inn-sitting for the next 5 nights but when I get home we are going to have to either have plans for medication (depending on what the fellow my mom knows said) or we are going to HAVE to put her to sleep. I seriously cannot take it anymore and feel like a prisoner in my own house. I never really followed thru with the wellbutrin since I never really got any feedback on it from others. I haven't seen my vet in awhile but wanted to ask her first. This whole situation just makes me sick. We have had her 4 and 1/2 years, spent time in training, treated both of them like kids, etc. Of course I'm very attached to her and she is an absolutely beautiful dog. I've been using a spray bottle (she detests water) as a deterent for the past several weeks and I wasn't getting bitten but last night she was quicker than I was. She just leaped out from under the bed and nailed me before I even had the chance to aim and spray (the bottle was in my hand already). I have gotten to the point that I'm constantly fearful of her.

the best me · June 23, 2005

I have seen a cat get put to sleep and it's a very quiet and peaceful way to go. I hate it for you, Teresa. It would break my heart, but if you must, well...

The problem I have is that the poor dog must be miserable, feeling the need to lash out like that. Or is it just a dangerous instinct? Is the dog happy? Or is she telling you she's really not? I swear I'd try some Elavil/Amitriptylene before putting her down. That way you would know you went to the end and didn't give up too soon. However, easy for me to say since I'm not living in your prison. I'm really sorry.

vinesqueen · June 23, 2005

oh Teresa, I am so really sorry for you and your dogs. One of the reasons I decided to put Tipper to sleep was because there was no way I could ever live with myself if he ever bit a child. I too felt like a complete hostage in my own house. I had considered giving him away, but I wouldn't be able to control what happened to him once he left my house. I know that it would always be my responsibility. And If I read in the news 2 years from now that he mauled a child because I didn't put him down when I should have I believe that would be criminial of me.

I'm not saying that is your situation, it was mine. I just wanted to let you know I was thinking about you and your family.