Okay, they are doing construction in the apartment next to us. 8am and they start drilling and hammering. I haven't had any decent sleep in 4 days! We are leaving in another month why couldn't they wait?! BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...........ok, I feel better.

All I can say is, that is possibly the best thread title I've seen yet. It makes me want to light up the old cauldron and toss in a quarter cup of newt bile and a pound of mouse tongues.

Are you nuts???? The price of mouse tongues is ridiculous - worse than gasoline. A whole pound would be soooooooo extravagant.

Are you nuts???? The price of mouse tongues is ridiculous - worse than gasoline. A whole pound would be soooooooo extravagant.

That's true, but I've been saving up for a while. The mice that live in my house are, shall we say, the quiet type, if you catch my meaning. :heh: :heh: :heh:

omg, i skipped down to write a message before reading the whole thread. I lived in this really great apartment for about a month. And then new people moved in upstairs. They made so much noise, vacuuming contantly stomping even building furniture,

bad snoring at night. I didn't even know it was snoring, it sounded like a doom video game. Anyway, I complained and knocked on the celing and the lady uupstairs was such a B****. She would make more noise if I knocked on her door (she wouldn't answer) or the ceilng. Anyway I complained so much to the management they got an eviction notice and they wouldn't leave. They had like 10 people living there on and off and they claimed I was prejudice and wanted them to get evicted because they're mexican. I was like WTF? You guys aren't supposed to have 10 people livng there because your lease allows maximum 4 people to be living there. Anyway, I tried so hard to be nice to them even though they made so much noise and the woman was so mean and either didn't speak english or refused to speak english to me.

anyway.... I used to have to take naps in my car while I was pregnant because it was so noisy up there even with earplugs you couldn't get any rest. I measured the noise at a construction site and the dB in my apartment was louder than at a construction site. Plus they ysed to throw all their burnt styrofoam barbecue plates on my patio. jerks

oh yeah. later I found out from other neighbors and mgmt. that all but guy on lease were illegal and he only had a work visa and that they were getting some kind of state assistance to live there. and oh yeah. we were forced to move while I was 8 months pregnant. bastards. also I think that they all would hide when the cops would go up their and tell them to keep it down in the middle of the night, because the officers would say that he only saw the one guy and his kid and girlfriend. And they threatened to sue the mgmt. for discrimnation and hired some sort of minority lawyer to represent them. so mgmt. quit trying to kick them out and just told us to leave if we couldn't handle it and let us out of our lease, but then it took us so long to find a new place that the lease was up by the time we left anyway.

We live next to the neighbour from Hell, too. There is a website called, I think, Neighbour from Hell, where one can read and even contribute one's own story. It is horrible living next to the neighbour from Hell and all the more offensive when the guy is illegally there! You have my sympathy.

aww thanks green. I live in the NW, and so many people are like, "OMG You can't be mad at someone for being here illegally, they're just economic and political refugees from (fill in the blank country)"

My new neighbor is very cool, but his live-in boyfriend is a total self-centered jerk. He's middle aged and doesn't even know he's childish and self-centered becaue he is so caught up with himself. I totally sympathize with people who have terrible neighbors. I'm going to check out that website. Sorry about your neighbor!

Evilah

While I have sympathy for people who are economic and political refugees - Toronto, Canada which is where I live is one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world - I still believe that these people must, like everyone else for that matter, respect their home and their neighbours. This means learning the folkways of the new country in order to integrate, being respectful of your neighbours and of the laws, and getting a job.

I still believe that these people must, like everyone else for that matter, respect their home and their neighbours. This means learning the folkways of the new country in order to integrate, being respectful of your neighbours and of the laws, and getting a job.

The landscaping company hires "questionables" -- I'm not sure if they're illegal or not, but I know most of them don't speak english.

Anyway, one of them stood in my lawn and unzipped his pants and peed on my tree last fall. And that's the time I saw him, I wonder how many times one of them did that and no one complained. You don't just go to someone else's house and expose yourself and pee on their lawn in public, on the corner of two intersecting streets in broad daylight! It's the law for god's sake. I'm sure he didn't know it's the law.

Just another reason why I'm totally against illegal immigrants being here (or in any country for that matter), people NEED to be acquainted with the laws before livng here (or whatever country they want to immigrate to).

Evilah

"Anyway, one of them stood in my lawn and unzipped his pants and peed on my tree last fall. And that's the time I saw him, I wonder how many times one of them did that and no one complained. You don't just go to someone else's house and expose yourself and pee on their lawn in public, on the corner of two intersecting streets in broad daylight! It's the law for god's sake. I'm sure he didn't know it's the law.

Just another reason why I'm totally against illegal immigrants being here (or in any country for that matter), people NEED to be acquainted with the laws before livng here (or whatever country they want to immigrate to)"

Really? Which foreign country, exactly, are you speaking of that encourages public urination? I've seen plenty of born-and-raised Americans urinate in public. Do you think we are the only country with manners? Ever wonder how many things you have done in a foreign country that would be considered rude to them?

Actually, yes I do. I've lived in several foreign countries, and took pains to be sure that I did not offend anyone or violate their laws

So let me say it -- there's no excuse for violating the law in a foreign country. If you're going to be there, live there, work there, you should learn the law. We make people who immigrate here legally learn it for a reason....

I didn't say I though that his native country encouraged urinating in public;. I'm making a comment about it being illegal to expose yourself in public in THIS country. And that this particular man would likely not have done it had he known there were consequences and that he could be arrested and have his citizenship questioned.

Where in my post did I speak of a country that encouraged public urination? How absurd to make such an inquiry, asking me what country I think encourages urination....

I'd rather believe he's not a sociopath and just a misinformed immigrant who didn't make the effort to learn the laws here, who was accustomed to a different set of laws and normalities in his native country.

Evilah

PS. Please don't put words in mouth. I never said a foreign country encourages urination in public. I think it's one of the forum rules here not to post that someone said something they did not.

"Which foreign country, exactly, are you speaking of that encourages public urination?" - Lucy

Anyone else have any opinions about immigrants learning the law before living and working here?

Evilah

I simply think your initial statement of opposing illegal immigrants because one of them urinated on your neighbor's lawn is a hyperbolic, sweeping generalization with poor reasoning. You stated that you were "not sure if they're illegal or not", followed by an explanation of your anti-illegal immigrant reasoning, using this badly-mannered sod (a point that we DO agree on) as an example.

Your inquiry of "Lucy, Are you okay with men urinating in public?" is just as absurd as my inquiry. But I'm sure you threw that in as a reciprocal dig.

Obviously I don't support public urination. But I also do not support generalizations of an extreme kind (with wishy-washy examples).

We obviously have differing opinions on immigration, but I think the bottom line is that we agree that public urination and other ill-mannered behaviour is undesirable, particularly that of the illegal nature.

I wasn't trying to be hurtful, I was simply making a point.

I simply think your initial statement of opposing illegal immigrants because one of them urinated on your neighbor's lawn is a hyperbolic(2), sweeping generalization with poor reasoning. You stated that you were "not sure if they're illegal or not", followed by an explanation of your anti-illegal immigrant reasoning, using this badly-mannered sod (a point that we DO agree on) as an example.

Your inquiry of "Lucy, Are you okay with men urinating in public?" is just as absurd as my inquiry. But I'm sure you threw that in as a reciprocal dig.

Obviously I don't support public urination. But I also do not support generalizations of an extreme kind (with wishy-washy examples).(3)

We obviously have differing opinions on immigration, but I think the bottom line is that we agree that public urination and other ill-mannered behaviour is undesirable, particularly that of the illegal nature.

I wasn't trying to be hurtful, I was simply making a point.

The landscaping company hires "questionables" -- I'm not sure if they're illegal or not, but I know most of them don't speak english.

Anyway, one of them stood in my lawn (1) and unzipped his pants and peed on my tree last fall. And that's the time I saw him, I wonder how many times one of them did that and no one complained. You don't just go to someone else's house and expose yourself and pee on their lawn in public, on the corner of two intersecting streets in broad daylight! It's the law for god's sake. I'm sure he didn't know it's the law.

Just another reason(2) why I'm totally against illegal immigrants being here (or in any country for that matter), people NEED to be acquainted with the laws before livng here (or whatever country they want to immigrate to).

Evilah

1. it was MY lawn and MY lawn company.

2. I stated it was one more reason to support my already existing view. This is not a sweeping generalization or hyperbolic. I never used it as a single reason to support my opposition to illegal immigration. I did not make a statement of my view and use this one example to support it. I just told a story about what happened to me, then related it to my already existing view. I didn't even explain my view in that post, it was just an addendum to the story.

3. If by wishy washy, you mean that I could not directly prove this person's citizenship... It is my calculated opinion that he is here illegally. Possibly not an accurate conclusion, but certainly one with reason. By generalization, do you mean the implication that all illegal immigrants do not know this countries laws? Yes it is a generalization, but it is also accurate. Most illegals do not know the laws here.

4. I'm not hurt; misphrasing and putting words in other's mouths makes sensible communication impossible, and it is one of my pet peeves.

I thought this story was relevant to this thread because it illustrated how the these individuals who my neighbor's and I have hired to maintain our lawns has annoyed me.

No one gets anywhere if an effort is not made to understand precisely the meaning of what someone else says. Because people are intellectually incapable of creating a dimensional understanding of the thousands and thousands of people they encounter, they tend to create a set of personas which they are familiar with and understand, and to treat new people as one of the existing, familiar, and known personas. (hence our terrible vulnerability to forming prejudices) Unfortunately we do not live in 200 member tribal societies anymore, and it takes a concerted effort to continually attach meaning and revelance and dimension to NEW personas with unique sets of experiences, daily, thousands and thousands of times over. It's a barrier to communication, and we should all be aware of this human shortcoming and attempt to overcome it. Add this communication problem to the fact that most people think they are more intelligent or more righteous than people they don't know, or who they have minimal contact with, (and that because of this most tend to form a view of the unknown that is more negatively slanted than positive) and it's amazing anyone ever talks to anyone at all.

Lucy

About illegal immigration, I have a very hard time understanding how someone can be "for" something that is illegal. But I continue to make efforts to understand it, and would be happy to hear your views and reasoning here if you want to give it. I will not try to change your mind, or debate your position. I am simply interested in adding to my body of knowledge another person's viewpoint.

Happy Posting,

Evilah

oops. editing problems in this post. see below.

Understood.

I would like to respond to what you said about not understanding how someone can be for something that is illegal -- in my view, just because the government has decreed something "legal" doesn't mean I am going to agree with it. "Legal" does not equal "moral" or "ethical" or even "in everyone's best interest". Thanks to Capitalism and the general corrruption of politics, most of our laws have been enacted to work in the favor of the rich and those who are in office.

Guns are legal in this country, I do not agree with that. I think marijuana and prostitution should be legalized. The existence of the death penalty offends me. Everyone should be able to marry, regardless of sexual orientation.

I am a progressive radical (I don't even consider myself to be a democrat) and I don't agree wtih many laws. That doesn't mean that I break them, but it does mean that I have a point of view that is different than our government's (and anyone, obviously, who has a different opinion).

You are welcome to debate me if you want. I'm not looking for a fight (although I'm sure there will be people who read this and say "you want to legalize prostitution?!?!?!?!?). I am interested to hear what other people think. Being on this forum has shown me that most of the people I surround myself with in life have a simiar perspective as me, so it's refreshing to come here and meet people who have very different ideas on life than I do.