So I watched this special last night on PBS on "The Mormons" and it made me even more disgusted at religion, I have to say.

Who do these people think they are, baptizing non-Mormons who are already dead?! And up until a few years ago, they were baptizing Holocaust survivors! They still baptize dead people and then record it in writing!

That is truly horrible and wrong. How dare they record people as Mormon who have no intention of being so?

The women are subordinate to the men, and they have no status in the church. People who don't get "selected" or "accepted" or whatever, into the temple are ostracized and treated horribly. They can even be excommunicated completely.

And not to mention the outrageous treatment of Gays and Lesbians.

It made me sick!

I think the absolute worst was this couple where the woman was 43 years old and she'd already had 7 children, and they thought God "told" them to have another baby. The doctors advised against it because she was high risk, but they did it anyway, and she got diabetes and she DIED of a blood clot because of being too old and being a high-risk pregnancy! Now their children are without a mother! Horrible!

And PBS didn't go into the widespread practice of forcing little girls to have sex with old men, and into polygamy, because that's not "officially" part of the Mormon religion, but that too makes me mad.

I don't care what consenting adults do about their religious beliefs, but don't go around baptizing people who don't want to be baptized and recording it for history, and don't treat women like subordinates and force them into high risk childbearing! And don't force little girl children to get married!

And I can't believe that people go around bashing law-abiding Gay people who just want to live their lives and don't hurt anyone, when these Mormons are running around abusing people and desecrating Jewish graves and treating women like total crap and emotionally abusing their members!

And it's based on some dude who had a visions of angels and Jesus. Just some regular guy who would be considered a total mental case today! Unbelievable.

Sometimes I think the most people in the world are 100% delusional.

I can say that, if i had 8 children running around, I would be depressed too. I do know woman who have that many children and are on Prozac. Even if they weren't Mormon they would still be stressed out and become depressed with that many young ones.

He also didn't mention the authoritive roles that woman play in the church, like in the Relief Society. He mentioned HOme teachers which are men but not the Women's visiting teachers which are Woman.

But isn't the fact that they have eight children a direct result of church doctrine and ideas? So certainly you can see that church teachings are have a direct impact on depression levels.

I think his point was that women do not hold true positions of power and authority in the church. Any positions they hold are secondary to men.

I am wondering, from your posts, if maybe you do not live in Utah, and because of that benefit from a different culture and environment then Mormon women who do live there.

Are you guys serious? These people are DEAD. Who cares? The mourning is only for the living anyways. Geez.

And the ridiculous nonsense about the Mormon religion.... I am NOT mormon but I do have many good friends that have terrific families, fantastic kids, and make forever friends. I may not agree with the religion but they have been VERY accepting of me and I am pagan and they know it. I even go to their women's group for my niece. Their group is very family, morals, and life skills oriented. Not much to do with the religion at all really except for living a good and happy life. I have went for over a two months now and I love it. They all know who I am (the drinking, smoking, tattooed heathen that I am) and they have NEVER treated me poorly or preached to me. They really do respect my religious choices and are happy for me that I do have some sort of peace in my life. I was really nervous at first going to their weekday "group" but my fears quickly disappeared.

I suggest that some of you really research the religions before making derogotory comments about it. Does it really matter anyways? If we live a good life, with a good heart and good intentions, then shouldn't we all be "forgiven" by whatever god or gods you love?

And regarding polygamy, these people are not condoned by the official LDS church, they are kicked out of being in that ward is what I understand. Correct me if I am wrong, but I live in a 80% community of Mormon LDS and I have never seen anything remotely as wierd or disgusting in my eyes. All I have seen is that they spend a large amount of quality time with their family and friends and do a lot for the community. Just my observations of course but I thought since we were sharing our 2 cents, I needed to get mine in too!

There are definitely some things I don't agree with in philosophy but who cares? Everyone has their right to choose.

Regarding the women have no rights idea, I know many mormon family and the woman DEFINITELY wears the pants and keeps that family together lovingly!

Just one more comment about their gay community views. I do NOT agree with them, however I respect their right to have their beliefs and I have never known anyone Mormon being nasty or rude on purpose. This is just what THEY believe. I don't think they are out to change anyone, but do not wish to encourage the lifestyle. That is their choice and it is okay with me. Definitely, there are some strange teachings that I have heard, but isn't all religions strange or argueable in some fashion? Yep. Give me a religion and I could argue on why it isn't true. Like I said, good heart, good intentions and good life. Do all of that and you will be okay in whatever end we get to eventually.

I can say that, if i had 8 children running around, I would be depressed too. I do know woman who have that many children and are on Prozac. Even if they weren't Mormon they would still be stressed out and become depressed with that many young ones.

He also didn't mention the authoritive roles that woman play in the church, like in the Relief Society. He mentioned HOme teachers which are men but not the Women's visiting teachers which are Woman.

But isn't the fact that they have eight children a direct result of church doctrine and ideas? So certainly you can see that church teachings are have a direct impact on depression levels.

I think his point was that women do not hold true positions of power and authority in the church. Any positions they hold are secondary to men.

I am wondering, from your posts, if maybe you do not live in Utah, and because of that benefit from a different culture and environment then Mormon women who do live there.

no, I don't live in Utah, and never have. I have only visited SLC once and it was for business.

Maybe i'm one of the woman who benefit from the lifestyle, since I do not feel opressed or depressed. I can honestly say in my family that yes, my husband is the head of it, but we are partners, and I usually make all the big decisions anyway. Like I wanted to buy a house, so we did, all he did was sign the mortgage. I picked the cars we drive, take care of all the finances, and he gets a certain amount each pay period to spend on whatever and likes it that way. I also only get a set amount and it's the same as his.

He takes the lead by leading family prayer and scripture study, disciplining the children, not in a physical way, going to work to provide for us, I stay home, he takes care of the cars, ect.

Anyway, at the top of the report it was especially directed at Mormon woman married to gay men, and two other out of the ordinary mormon woman.

I can see how the article could be true of some woman, but not any I know. The woman I know that are on prozac have more than 6 children a piece and being military families are stressed because the husbands are gone to Iraq or have gone.

For someone with your beliefs they would see the Church woman as being secondary, that's just because of your belief system. I don't see it that way, because i feel that my roles are just as important as my husbands and there will be great blessings for what I do as a Mother, wife and in The Church.

Ok, so I lived in utah up until just a few yrs ago, and I totally dont think that the kids and depression go hand in hand. I think that these families have probley experienced things in there personal lives which they dont totally wear on there sleaves, therfore it would be hard for you to judge what the reason for there depression. Others may not know what that person is going through until things may build up to the point of them experiencing some depression. Who are you to judge and say that it is because of there children. I have to say that I have 3 children and they are so fantastic! if anything, when things are bad in my own life they, along with my husband they are my biggest supporters, and are part of what carry me through:) Here is a little of my own life experience..... I married my highschool sweetheart and had a baby, when she was 3 weeks old he was killed in a car accident. I moved away from my family in an effort to contiue my schooling to be able to support my daughter. I compleated schooling and opened my own buisness and am now very successful. ( I am not living on welfare as you have stated, that us mormons try to do) anyways, when I moved away to go to school it was dang hard, and I was dealing with a fresh loss, and nobody new me or why at times I would experience depression. I will say that my coming to terms with everything and being able to move on in a happy, healthy and strong womenish kinda way is DIRECTLY related to the LDS faith. I know that I will see my daughters sweet daddy somday in heaven:) Even though I have moved on and remarried another faboulously supportive husband and now have 2 more children I have never lost that fire to be a strong women and to make my own desisions. I have a wonderful husband whom I consult with and when it comes down to it he lets me make my own desissions, I in no way feel like he controlls me. How blessed I am to know that I am secure in my beleifs and have that personal relationship with my father in heaven to know that these things are true. I dont feel like reading some article that can be critiqued would in anyway sway my feelings with my religon. I think you can pick apart anything, and find negative

I can say that, if i had 8 children running around, I would be depressed too. I do know woman who have that many children and are on Prozac. Even if they weren't Mormon they would still be stressed out and become depressed with that many young ones.

He also didn't mention the authoritive roles that woman play in the church, like in the Relief Society. He mentioned HOme teachers which are men but not the Women's visiting teachers which are Woman.

But isn't the fact that they have eight children a direct result of church doctrine and ideas? So certainly you can see that church teachings are have a direct impact on depression levels.

I think his point was that women do not hold true positions of power and authority in the church. Any positions they hold are secondary to men.

I am wondering, from your posts, if maybe you do not live in Utah, and because of that benefit from a different culture and environment then Mormon women who do live there.

Lest we not forget; a VERY large portion of society (in general) take antidepressants because of depression. Be it endogenous or exogenous (internal cause or external cause). Many people are born with a hereditary precursor to depression. Many people have that AND add a few external issues and there you have it: Depression.

MANY people have depression and never acknowledge that their own illness exists, so they just live a victim role most of their life or make others the cause of 'their' problems. Goodness knows how many people never even admit their own problem or seek help.

I think we've taken polls on this board as to how many take medications to alleviate their depression. In the obese society, it is rampant. I don't think one article about women in a particular religious society makes a hill of beans, compared to society in general.

You can track depression/addiction through my own family for as far back as I can remember and I'm not sure I've ever even shaken hands with a person who belongs to a LDS church.

Depression is a cognitive thinking/chemical imbalance illness. It knows no address or religous affiliation.

my meaning behind having so many children is that in our kind of lifestyle(military) having 6, 7, 8 little ones under the age of 10, can be quite quite stressful, I know the woman love their children just as much as the next woman. When my husband was deployed for a year and i was left with a 3 month old and a 2 year old, my stress levels raised and I could of seen myself on some kind of medicine, and looking back I probably should have been.

So I'm not saying children cause depression, but the LDS woman I know that are on Prozac, openly at least, have more than 5 or 6 children a piece and have zero time for themselves. I only have 2 kids and stay at home so i have plenty of time to do things i like to do, read, spend time with friends, we go to lunch at least once a week, get pedicures, and of course go online. I look up to those woman personally, it takes a strong person to do what they do. I think they are selfless and very much an inspiration to many. Maybe someday i'll have the guts to have more children. I'll be 25 this year so i have some time i think.

This is very true. I come from a family of depressives and I have struggled with this disease all my life. My life is a very pleasant and an interesting one but still I must take a number of medications and see a therapist in order to remain on an even keel. It is the luck of the genetic deck in my case.

I suggest that some of you really research the religions before making derogotory comments about it.

I feel I have done research on the religion. Are you saying that the Dr.'s report is a bunch of balony, just because you happen to know some nice people who are Mormon?

Look, these women he interviewed told him of their depression because of their religion.

Should their personal experiences be discounted? In addition, there are thousands of thousands of recovering Mormons who feel they were extremely damaged by the church.

I am sure that there are happy and decent Mormon people in the world, but I am also certain that some tenants of the doctrine do oppress women.

Funny how when it comes to women's issues, it's always the unaffected women who are the first in line to say it's not true. Women are best at putting each other down.

It is a well-documented fact that many thousands of people feel hurt and degraded by the church. If you don't believe me, all you have to do is Google "ex Mormon'.

Depression is a cognitive thinking/chemical imbalance illness. It knows no address or religous affiliation.

Once again, Leatha, did you read the paper we're talking about?

Lest we not forget; a VERY large portion of society (in general) take antidepressants because of depression. Be it endogenous or exogenous (internal cause or external cause). Many people are born with a hereditary precursor to depression. Many people have that AND add a few external issues and there you have it: Depression.

MANY people have depression and never acknowledge that their own illness exists, so they just live a victim role most of their life or make others the cause of 'their' problems. Goodness knows how many people never even admit their own problem or seek help.

I think we've taken polls on this board as to how many take medications to alleviate their depression. In the obese society, it is rampant. I don't think one article about women in a particular religious society makes a hill of beans, compared to society in general.

You can track depression/addiction through my own family for as far back as I can remember and I'm not sure I've ever even shaken hands with a person who belongs to a LDS church.

Depression is a cognitive thinking/chemical imbalance illness. It knows no address or religous affiliation.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but part of what you said is that there are both internal and external causes of depression. It's not all hereditary/chemical. And I think having 8 children can be phenomenally stressful, especially in a world where you are also expected to be subservient, to be the perfect housekeeper, and to willingly (if not eagerly) sacrifice all your own needs for respect, appreciation, and self-fulfillment.

I'm not saying all Mormons are bad and wrong. I'm just saying that the religious life, in general, is usually much tougher on women than it is on men. Women have the same needs men do for respect within the society, creative expression, self fulfillment in career and in family life. Yet with 8 kids and a demanding, insensitive, chauvinistic husband, it can be pretty tough to avoid some of the "externally" caused depression you mentioned in your post.

When a women's soul is crushed and she is left without respect and appreciation, the woman loses, of course. But the truth is, all of society loses. Men certainly lose. There is no way a man can be truly happy if his wife is desparate and unhappy. And in contrast, there is no greater force for good on this planet than a happy woman.

I have lived within the mormon community my whole life. I am NOT mormon and would never ever be a mormon. I have lived with the "your NOT as good as we are" attitude for 37 years. I know some very very good mormon people who do not judge you for who you are and I know some very very rotten mormon people who really should examine their religions teachings. For instance, when my husband, who WAS raised mormon, wrote a letter to have his name removed from the official church listing, (not ex communicated), he wanted his name taken off the list of membership, there was a HUGE upheaval in the family. OH MY GOD....now we are not going to be together forever in Heaven when we all die!!!!!!! You know what....I didnt marry his family...I married him and I would never want to spend eternity with my DH's family!!!!!! That would SUCK!!!! When his name was official removed, my sons best friend of 5 years...all of a sudden couldnt play with him anymore...AT ALL...EVER AGAIN...because my husband "LEFT" the church. Now, that best friend is getting drunk and his parents are getting divorced...WOW...talk about hypocritical....You cant play with your best friend because his dad left our wonderful church but in 15 years me and your dad will get divorced and THATS ok....The neighbors we have have a daughter that is my daughters age...she HAS NEVER been able to play with my daughter...the reason...my hubby drinks beer and they dont want their daughter around that....oh my...what a sad sad existance.....funny thing is...it was one of their daughters who was calling for a ride because she was drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have many many many things that I could tell you about the mormons and the "weird" things they do, but I wont because...its not just the mormons....all church goers are hypocrites....every single one that I have EVER met are!!!! I surely believe in God and heaven but I dont think I have to be married in a temple and do "good works" to go to heaven. And I dont think that I am going to be a "god"....or that I will "married to my first husband for time and time eternity.....my husband is NOT going to call me out of the grave...God will do that...not a man. God is NOT a man by any means...a spiritual being is what God is....not a MORTAL MAN....Mary did not have sex with Elohim to produce Jesus....oh boy, here I go on a rant about their teachings...the point I wanted to say was mormons are no worse than any other religion. Its the organization of religion that sucks...my .02!!

I have many many many things that I could tell you about the mormons and the "weird" things they do, but I wont

Oh do tell.

Please do.

Please?

... PBS didn't go into the widespread practice of forcing little girls to have sex with old men, and into polygamy, because that's not "officially" part of the Mormon religion, but that too makes me mad.

Mormons no longer practice polygamy and are appalled at the splinter groups who do. I'm an ex-Mormon and do not agree with the Church, but this is one myth that must be stopped.

Most Mormons I know are great people, pretty tolerant and very, very kind. Much kinder than the hypocritical evangelical Xians who condemn them. I don't agree with their religion or their politics anymore (I did at one time) but I do think people should be judged on their individual merits, not condemned by stereotypes.

I think all religion should be stopped. It corrupts and hurts far more than it helps.