So I watched this special last night on PBS on "The Mormons" and it made me even more disgusted at religion, I have to say.

Who do these people think they are, baptizing non-Mormons who are already dead?! And up until a few years ago, they were baptizing Holocaust survivors! They still baptize dead people and then record it in writing!

That is truly horrible and wrong. How dare they record people as Mormon who have no intention of being so?

The women are subordinate to the men, and they have no status in the church. People who don't get "selected" or "accepted" or whatever, into the temple are ostracized and treated horribly. They can even be excommunicated completely.

And not to mention the outrageous treatment of Gays and Lesbians.

It made me sick!

I think the absolute worst was this couple where the woman was 43 years old and she'd already had 7 children, and they thought God "told" them to have another baby. The doctors advised against it because she was high risk, but they did it anyway, and she got diabetes and she DIED of a blood clot because of being too old and being a high-risk pregnancy! Now their children are without a mother! Horrible!

And PBS didn't go into the widespread practice of forcing little girls to have sex with old men, and into polygamy, because that's not "officially" part of the Mormon religion, but that too makes me mad.

I don't care what consenting adults do about their religious beliefs, but don't go around baptizing people who don't want to be baptized and recording it for history, and don't treat women like subordinates and force them into high risk childbearing! And don't force little girl children to get married!

And I can't believe that people go around bashing law-abiding Gay people who just want to live their lives and don't hurt anyone, when these Mormons are running around abusing people and desecrating Jewish graves and treating women like total crap and emotionally abusing their members!

And it's based on some dude who had a visions of angels and Jesus. Just some regular guy who would be considered a total mental case today! Unbelievable.

Sometimes I think the most people in the world are 100% delusional.

I have absolutely no idea what this means, but by all means, feel free to do them for me. Pray for me. Baptize me in absentia (although I've already been baptized), or posthumously. It's like chicken soup....it can't hurt and maybe it will actually help.

I know! That's what i'm saying. maybe someone else knows something I don't. I don't care, i'm dead, if it help me when i am dead, then great. IF not, then who cares. right?

ok, Mormonism is a very family oriented, loving and peaceful religion. Most of the members live a higher standard that most people wouldn't have the willpower to follow.

This was from your first post on this thread - you don't see the condescension here? Most of the Mormons I know spout the same party line - maybe some people don't live the "higher standard" because they choose not to.

eh....I think religion is a personal thing. I am a Christian that used to be an atheist (and you know there is nothing worse than a convert). I don't feel the need to defend my faith and I am not asking you to defend yours - I am just trying to understand. There seems to be such an incongruity between the beliefs of Mormons and actions of Mormons. You believe everyone is equal yet the actions of the faith do not support that. You believe everyone is a sinner and needs to lean on God yet continually strive for perfection and castigate and excommunicate those unable to achieve it.

*walking away from keyboard* I don't really want to rant.

And where do you get your information that the mainstream Mormons still practice polygamy?

Then who are the 60,000 polygamous people in Utah?

Like I said it's my bet that it goes on. I'm going by articles I've read and interviews with people who live in Utah, etc. who say it does go on but that people are not vocal about it.

It's just like any other religion. Officially the members are not supposed to do certain things, but those things still go on.

In mainstream Mormonism, the percentage is probably pretty low, but there are plenty of fundamentalist Mormons NOT associated with Warren Jeffs, who practice it.

I've seen (recently) interviews with some of the wives, on Larry King and on CNN and other similar programs. Wives who don't follow Warren Jeffs but who are Mormons. Yes, the are fundamentalist Mormons but they are still Mormons all the same.

And where do you get your information that the mainstream Mormons still practice polygamy?

Then who are the 60,000 polygamous people in Utah?

Like I said it's my bet that it goes on. I'm going by articles I've read and interviews with people who live in Utah, etc. who say it does go on but that people are not vocal about it.

It's just like any other religion. Officially the members are not supposed to do certain things, but those things still go on.

In mainstream Mormonism, the percentage is probably pretty low, but there are plenty of fundamentalist Mormons NOT associated with Warren Jeffs, who practice it.

I've seen (recently) interviews with some of the wives, on Larry King and on CNN and other similar programs. Wives who don't follow Warren Jeffs but who are Mormons. Yes, the are fundamentalist Mormons but they are still Mormons all the same.

fundamentalist Mormons are not the same as mainstream mormons. Just like Orthodox Jews are not the same as just Jews. The fundamentalist don't attend regular meetings, they don't use the same temples, they are not listed as any of the over 3 million members, they don't have the same President, and they have no association with the Church at all.

I have not seen any interviews with mainstream Mormons that claim the things you say. I have seen the interviews with Larry King, including the one with Gordon B. Hinkley, the President of the Church.

In the mormon religion that I belong to we are taught that we are equal to men

Then please do explain why only men can be priests.

Thanks.

Many, many denominations ordain only men. And just straight men, at that.

Wanna have a little fun?

Ask about the "Adam God" concept where if a couple is married in the Temple, live a righteous life and judged worthy; they are given a world to govern.

I loved learning some of the differences between the LDS nad RLDS church when I was a member. The R stands for Reorganized and are officially non-Mormon, although the lineage is similar.

I understand the desire to distance oneself from the rash actions perpetrated by a small faction of an organization.

I, myself, am not too proud of the anti-American behaviors of our current administration.

:yield:

Many, many denominations ordain only men. And just straight men, at that.

Yep, and that's why many, many religions are anti-women, anti-Gay, and just plain suck.

When I was like seven years old and at Catholic school and I found out women couldn't be priests, I was like "Whattttt?!?!? Screw that!"

I don't know why I had that sensibility at 7 and yet millions of people think it's perfectly acceptable.

I knew right then I wanted no part of that nonsense and decided it wasn't for me.

Could have had to do with the fact I was being raised by a single mom and for someone to tell me she wouldn't be allowed to do something because of her gender made me really pissed off.

That and them telling me both my parents were sinning because they were divorced.

Uh, no thanks. Think I'll stick with something that respects me instead of something that denigrates me.

sweethot143,

as I read this thread, I go back to my siminary teacher telling me he would not argue religion with me, as LDS believe that each has their own opinions and arguing raises doubt in your beliefs. I never understood what he ment or why he wouldnt argue with me, but I see now!

I no longer participate in or agree with all of the teaching of the church, not for any reasons listed on this thread, and laugh at most of the absurd comments made. If the dumb stuff said on TV wouldnt cause debate they wouldnt show it. But I do commend you on your stregnth and convictions of your religious beliefs. The true LDS religion is so family and member strong that is the one great thing the religion has given me. the importance of family and community.

Funny you should mention Larry King, Do you know that he is married to a Mormon. He tells everyone that on that same special he did on poligamy. He also very clearly states that there is a huge difference in the warren Jeffs group and the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" also known as the mormons. Do you think that he would marry somone who is totally so weird like you claim that mormons are. You are baseing your entire opion on the mormon faith from tv depictions and articles you read. Do you honestly think that if all the articles were just normal everyday things that people would get all hyped up like this pbs special, the people who write these articles have to spice it up with " I heard" or " I have a friend who say's" there really isnt anything valid that you are stating to back up that you know these terrible things about the mormons.

And where do you get your information that the mainstream Mormons still practice polygamy?

Then who are the 60,000 polygamous people in Utah?

Like I said it's my bet that it goes on. I'm going by articles I've read and interviews with people who live in Utah, etc. who say it does go on but that people are not vocal about it.

It's just like any other religion. Officially the members are not supposed to do certain things, but those things still go on.

In mainstream Mormonism, the percentage is probably pretty low, but there are plenty of fundamentalist Mormons NOT associated with Warren Jeffs, who practice it.

I've seen (recently) interviews with some of the wives, on Larry King and on CNN and other similar programs. Wives who don't follow Warren Jeffs but who are Mormons. Yes, the are fundamentalist Mormons but they are still Mormons all the same.

As long as the marriages involve consenting adults, why would anyone care how many wives a man has?

My DH says that two would be about 1 1/2 too many....LOL

You seem like such a bitter and unhappy person, to spend so much time bashing somthing that you obviously know not much about. If living without religion would lead me to anywhere close to were you are, then that is reason enough for me to continue to beleive in my savior Jesus Christ and strive daily to follow his commandments and be a better person, mother, and friend.:fish:

I said nothing about your spelling. My point was that you (generally speaking) can't take a lack of misspelled words, on a messageboard with a spell check function, as an indication that homeschooling is better than not homeschooling (or etc.). And to a lesser degree, that lack of misspelled words does not indicate a superior education or upbringing when other assets such as grammar are not also "above average" - even if that were some kind of valid measure. (Esp. on boards with a spellcheck.)

I think BB got what I was saying. Hope.

If anything, BB was complimenting your spelling.

Many, many denominations ordain only men. And just straight men, at that.

Yep, and that's why many, many religions are anti-women, anti-Gay, and just plain suck.

When I was like seven years old and at Catholic school and I found out women couldn't be priests, I was like "Whattttt?!?!? Screw that!"

I don't know why I had that sensibility at 7 and yet millions of people think it's perfectly acceptable.

I knew right then I wanted no part of that nonsense and decided it wasn't for me.

Could have had to do with the fact I was being raised by a single mom and for someone to tell me she wouldn't be allowed to do something because of her gender made me really pissed off.

That and them telling me both my parents were sinning because they were divorced.

Uh, no thanks. Think I'll stick with something that respects me instead of something that denigrates me.

Please refrain from personal comments, folks. Critique the ideas, not the people. Thanks,

Sunta, I can really relate to your comment about being 7 and ticked when you heard that women can't do something. I remember being equally appalled as a kid as I learned about the life of our Orthodox Jewish friends who lived next door, and being so thankful that my parents weren't raising me in a world with artificial walls. I would look at that mother and wonder where herSELF went, and how could she be willing to live her life according to restrictive rules, etc., while her husband and sons could do (dress, act, say) whatever they wanted. My parents would assure me that it was her choice (which I never quite believed, somehow) and that those rules don't apply to me and wouldn't, ever.

Thank you, Mom and Dad. :biggrin1:

You seem like such a bitter and unhappy person, to spend so much time bashing somthing that you obviously know not much about. If living without religion would lead me to anywhere close to were you are, then that is reason enough for me to continue to beleive in my savior Jesus Christ and strive daily to follow his commandments and be a better person, mother, and friend.

You quoted two different people, but say "person." To whom were you actually referring?

As for my comment, what's bitter and unhappy about it? It wasn't even associated with religion. I was making the point that spelling does not equal better education/upbringing. In what way does that warrant your response?

Sunta, I can really relate to your comment about being 7 and ticked when you heard that women can't do something. I remember being equally appalled as a kid as I learned about the life of our Orthodox Jewish friends who lived next door, and being so thankful that my parents weren't raising me in a world with artificial walls. I would look at that mother and wonder where herSELF went

Rings bells here, too. I can remember being very fairly young and asking my mom why, if she believed in god, did she not go to church? And I remember her telling me she wasn't allowed to because she had gotten divorced. So I asked her why she got divorced and she told me it was because the guy beat her up. I asked her if she liked church, and she said yes. I couldn't, for the life of me (at the ripe old age I was) understand why she wouldn't be allowed to go to the church because she left someone who was beating her up. Of course, I was young and getting the simplified version of the story, but it's not like age has made that situation make any more sense.

Alexandra, I think it's beautiful that you thank your parents for that. Often if I'm in a situation where I'm asked what I'm most thankful for, my response is somehow related to the fact that my parents left me free to choose most of the direction in my life. Of course they were there overseeing it all, but even when I chose paths that caused them pain (as long as it was not destructive), they never intervened. They always supported me even if they didn't agree with my choices, and even when my choices went against the fabric of everything they knew. And they never let our differences become a point of contention. I CANNOT express how COMPLETELY grateful I am for this, and I can only hope that I'm able to do it the exact same way when I pop one out.