So I watched this special last night on PBS on "The Mormons" and it made me even more disgusted at religion, I have to say.

Who do these people think they are, baptizing non-Mormons who are already dead?! And up until a few years ago, they were baptizing Holocaust survivors! They still baptize dead people and then record it in writing!

That is truly horrible and wrong. How dare they record people as Mormon who have no intention of being so?

The women are subordinate to the men, and they have no status in the church. People who don't get "selected" or "accepted" or whatever, into the temple are ostracized and treated horribly. They can even be excommunicated completely.

And not to mention the outrageous treatment of Gays and Lesbians.

It made me sick!

I think the absolute worst was this couple where the woman was 43 years old and she'd already had 7 children, and they thought God "told" them to have another baby. The doctors advised against it because she was high risk, but they did it anyway, and she got diabetes and she DIED of a blood clot because of being too old and being a high-risk pregnancy! Now their children are without a mother! Horrible!

And PBS didn't go into the widespread practice of forcing little girls to have sex with old men, and into polygamy, because that's not "officially" part of the Mormon religion, but that too makes me mad.

I don't care what consenting adults do about their religious beliefs, but don't go around baptizing people who don't want to be baptized and recording it for history, and don't treat women like subordinates and force them into high risk childbearing! And don't force little girl children to get married!

And I can't believe that people go around bashing law-abiding Gay people who just want to live their lives and don't hurt anyone, when these Mormons are running around abusing people and desecrating Jewish graves and treating women like total crap and emotionally abusing their members!

And it's based on some dude who had a visions of angels and Jesus. Just some regular guy who would be considered a total mental case today! Unbelievable.

Sometimes I think the most people in the world are 100% delusional.

Wow. I'll have to see if that is coming back on, that's unreal. Converting people's religions after death? That seems sacreligious..

What was the purpose of this special? "The Mormons" seems like a vague title.

I can't speak for a Mormon person not being one. I can tell you the foundation for their church is not what I would call my cup of tea.

I know the person they believe to be a prophet was Joseph Smith and he was the foundation for the religion. He was something like 14 years old at the time. He "found" gold tablets in the woods.

I can't get mad at people who believe in a religion. I can get upset at someone for altering historical documents to suit their need. I do know the Mormons have a HUGE archive of geneology and they require when you convert that you begin your family geneology at some point. Documenting history is wonderful but I wonder WHO is allowing someone to alter their heir's religion???? Just because THEY change it doesn't make it so.

the opiate for the masses.... so said Marx

I live in Utah now (non mormon but with several mormon friends - one couple practicing and all the rest jack mormons - raised mormon but not practicing and most ostracized from their family etc.)

Yep, I was raised catholic and thought that was bad - mormon beliefs seem even more outrageous.

My one friend told me of a ceremony she was forced to participate in at around 11 - baptism for the dead - in front of a panel of men - dressed in white and baptised over and over again - she said about 50 times with the guy chanting the names of dead people she didn't even know then brought back to the church - I kept asking her what was it about and she said it was never discussed with her - strange!

Then, what they do before you get married is wild - annointing your parts in some wierd ceremony..

Another friend's sister's husband cheated on her three or more times and was forgiven because he was a sleepwalker - ha. And, yes if you get divorced for any reason the wife is always stuck to the first husband ..

hmm let's see what else I've heard - different layers of heaven that you can only go to if you follow the rules for that layer (if you don't tithe and wear your garmets, go to church and all the stake and ward meetings you aint getting in top echelon - blah blah)

my other fnon mormon friend sent her two dgtrs to a slumber party - they are 8 & 10 and the mormon family sent them home cuz their pj's (shorts and tank tops) weren't modest.

ugh - I really don't mean this to be a slam against mormons but just sharing some strange things that I've experienced here.

This just seems so sad that you sat through an entire tv episode and only walked away from it with the weird things about the mormon beliefs. You have to remember that this tv episode was depicted from a man who is not even mormon, and many of his interveiws were done with x mormons, so of course they arnt going to be all happy and positive. One thing about the mormon church is that it is not a church of conveinence, it does not change all the rules just to make people happy, however people have their free agency to choose to obey or not obey. nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. This church and its beleifs are so great even though all of its members may not be.

I live in Utah now (non mormon but with several mormon friends - one couple practicing and all the rest jack mormons - raised mormon but not practicing and most ostracized from their family etc.)

Yep, I was raised catholic and thought that was bad - mormon beliefs seem even more outrageous.

My one friend told me of a ceremony she was forced to participate in at around 11 - baptism for the dead - in front of a panel of men - dressed in white and baptised over and over again - she said about 50 times with the guy chanting the names of dead people she didn't even know then brought back to the church - I kept asking her what was it about and she said it was never discussed with her - strange!

Then, what they do before you get married is wild - annointing your parts in some wierd ceremony..

Another friend's sister's husband cheated on her three or more times and was forgiven because he was a sleepwalker - ha. And, yes if you get divorced for any reason the wife is always stuck to the first husband ..

hmm let's see what else I've heard - different layers of heaven that you can only go to if you follow the rules for that layer (if you don't tithe and wear your garmets, go to church and all the stake and ward meetings you aint getting in top echelon - blah blah)

my other fnon mormon friend sent her two dgtrs to a slumber party - they are 8 & 10 and the mormon family sent them home cuz their pj's (shorts and tank tops) weren't modest.

ugh - I really don't mean this to be a slam against mormons but just sharing some strange things that I've experienced here.

:help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :target: I think this discussion is very interesting. I dont know much about the religion. I was raised Catholic and dont practice any religion now,, but I am not getting any good vibs about the Morman religion.

DLS

:help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :target: I think this discussion is very interesting. I dont know much about the religion. I was raised Catholic and dont practice any religion now,, but I am not getting any good vibs about the Morman religion.

DLS:straight :straight :straight :straight :think :think :think :think :think :think :think

ok, so i'm mormon, and a lot of what you guys are saying is twisted and wrong. Mormonism is a very family oriented, loving and peaceful religion. Most of the members live a higher standard that most people wouldn't have the willpower to follow. If you guys want to know about baptisms for the dead or in Proxy as they call it you can go to LDS.org and get some accurate info.

Ok, I went to the Website you suggested sweethot, and found this:

"Jesus Christ taught that baptism is essential to the salvation of all who have lived on earth (see John 3:5). Many people, however, have died without being baptized. Others were baptized without proper authority. Because God is merciful, He has prepared a way for all people to receive the blessings of baptism. By performing proxy baptisms in behalf of those who have died, Church members offer these blessings to deceased ancestors. Individuals can then choose to accept or reject what has been done in their behalf."

Ummmm.... how is this not an atrocious practice that directly subverts the individual's right to decide if they want to be made a Mormon? They're dead! They can't speak for themselves!

Also, how do I ensure that MY name doesn't somehow come up in their files after I've died? Because I NEVER want my name associated with this religion.

What about if I started baptizing all Mormon names I can find as some other religion? How would they feel about that?

Ok, I went to the Website you suggested sweethot, and found this:

"Jesus Christ taught that baptism is essential to the salvation of all who have lived on earth (see John 3:5). Many people, however, have died without being baptized. Others were baptized without proper authority. Because God is merciful, He has prepared a way for all people to receive the blessings of baptism. By performing proxy baptisms in behalf of those who have died, Church members offer these blessings to deceased ancestors. Individuals can then choose to accept or reject what has been done in their behalf."

Ummmm.... how is this not an atrocious practice that directly subverts the individual's right to decide if they want to be made a Mormon? They're dead! They can't speak for themselves!

Also, how do I ensure that MY name doesn't somehow come up in their files after I've died? Because I NEVER want my name associated with this religion.

What about if I started baptizing all Mormon names I can find as some other religion? How would they feel about that?

ok so the key words there were " Individuals can then choose to accept or reject what has been done on their behalf." so if one of us is gracious enough to give you the opportunity to accept the Gospel, you still have your free agency and are able to choose if you want to or not and if you do choose to accept it all the proper ordinances have been done for you. Makes complete sense.

If someone of another religion wants to baptize me in Proxy then so be it, i don't think any of us would care , since we all have free agency, the right to choose. so if I choose not to become whatever they baptised me for then that baptism was nothing. The people were doing what they felt was right, so i see nothing wrong with that.

ok so the key words there were " Individuals can then choose to accept or reject what has been done on their behalf." so if one of us is gracious enough to give you the opportunity to accept the Gospel, you still have your free agency and are able to choose if you want to or not and if you do choose to accept it all the proper ordinances have been done for you. Makes complete sense.

I've never understood this part, could you clarify?

When you say that the person can accept or reject it, do you mean even if they are dead? I get this mental picture of someone in Hell hearing their name called out and them being told they could leave now, of course they would accept it. In other words, once you are dead you know where you are going and so it's a different choice.

Does that even make sense? :target:

I've never understood this part, could you clarify?

When you say that the person can accept or reject it, do you mean even if they are dead? I get this mental picture of someone in Hell hearing their name called out and them being told they could leave now, of course they would accept it. In other words, once you are dead you know where you are going and so it's a different choice.

Does that even make sense? :target:

we believe everyone will have the opportunity accept the Gospel dead or Alive. so, people who die before judgment day are sort of waiting, and will have the opportunity to learn and accept it. The thing is that we are all God's children and he wants with all of his heart for us to return to live with him, so he has made it possible that all of the ordinances have been restored to the Earth in these days and that everyone will have an opportunity to accept his Plan. So that's what we believe, in a nutshell, other mormons, my returned missionary husband could probablly explain it better than I, but that's how I think of it.

we believe everyone will have the opportunity accept the Gospel dead or Alive. so, people who die before judgment day are sort of waiting, and will have the opportunity to learn and accept it.

Oh.

Well, I for one have already rejected it now, while I'm alive. So how do I go about making sure my name doesn't get selected after I'm dead, just in the off-chance, you know, that after I die I really would not have the capability to decide since I will not have a functioning brain, and also since I will not have the ability to then inform the living the living of my after-death decision (or do you all also have some kind of portal where you can receive messages from the dead as well?)

Read "The God Makers"... fascinating book about the Mormon religion.

I think all religions are jacked up, in one form or another. I was raised Catholic and now consider myself agnostic. Hmm.. maybe that Catholic guilt won't let me admit that maybe I'm athiest? :target:

I certainly don't understand all the tenants of the Mormon church. I think the whole underwear thing is a little strange, but hey....I'm Catholic and lots of people don't "get" us, either. We get blasted a lot for baptizing babies, but so do Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians, and others, but they NEVER seem to get flack over that. The thing that REALLY pisses me of, though, is when someone states with utter and complete "authority" that "Catholics worship statues" (or the Virgin Mary).

I'm all for allowing each person to follow his/her own path in peace and harmony.