There seems to be a lot of debate on here about this, some are strict about this and some more lenient. I believe it's important to develop new and healthy habits but the thought of never eating some foods again seems too extreme. I mean in my hey day I could easily devour half a pizza myself, if I can now have one occasionally while sticking to my meal plan isn't that fine? I'd like to still be able to have treats.

I'm still healing so haven't experienced this yet but in 6 months, if i'm staying within my calorie range and eating healthy foods 90-95% of the time, i think i'd be okay with that. Curious what people think especially those that are far out in this journey?

.....

Far from healthy. But it's also probly under 1200 calories (I occasionally will count on my fitnesspal and I rarely go over 1200). Ok, where was I going with this? Oh yeah. My philosophy:

It WAS eat everything, just small amounts. Now that it's ceasing to work, I guess I'm gunna have to step up my game and actually count everything that goes into my mouth if I want to reach goal.

Marfar...there's alot of evidence to suggest that it's not just about calories. All calories are not created equal. Your intake may be fairly low in calories but it also seems extremely low in Protein and high in carbs. High GI carbs inhibit your body's ability to burn fat and increase hunger.....a double whammy. I only say that to suggest that it may be more about quality rather than quantity for you.

If you're interested, read the book "Good Calories, Bad Calories."

Marfar...there's alot of evidence to suggest that it's not just about calories. All calories are not created equal. Your intake may be fairly low in calories but it also seems extremely low in Protein and high in carbs. High GI carbs inhibit your body's ability to burn fat and increase hunger.....a double whammy. I only say that to suggest that it may be more about quality rather than quantity for you. If you're interested, read the book "Good Calories, Bad Calories."

I want to echo what butter said. As a recap of the book, I've posted an article under the research section that encapsulates the author's thinking. (Gary Taubes).

And I can encapsulate it even further.

In the presence of insulin, your body burns carbs for energy. In the absence of insulin, it burns fat for energy. Therefore the fewer carbs you eat, the more fat you burn.

I appreciate your not wanting to be on a diet. I wonder if it would be easier for you to time-limit this and say that you might watch your carbs until you get to goal, and then slowly try to re-introduce them? That way, it's not for life, it's just for right now.

Just a thought

I want to echo what butter said. As a recap of the book, I've posted an article under the research section that encapsulates the author's thinking. (Gary Taubes).

And I can encapsulate it even further.

In the presence of insulin, your body burns carbs for energy. In the absence of insulin, it burns fat for energy. Therefore the fewer carbs you eat, the more fat you burn.

I appreciate your not wanting to be on a diet. I wonder if it would be easier for you to time-limit this and say that you might watch your carbs until you get to goal, and then slowly try to re-introduce them? That way, it's not for life, it's just for right now.

Just a thought

I agree. After the holidays (hey, I'm a realist!) I will start coutning VALUABLE calories and making better carb choices. I eat alot of potatoes, cereal, bread, and Pasta. I know it's whats preventing me from losing to goal. Thanks for the ideas...

Marfar...there's alot of evidence to suggest that it's not just about calories. All calories are not created equal. Your intake may be fairly low in calories but it also seems extremely low in Protein and high in carbs. High GI carbs inhibit your body's ability to burn fat and increase hunger.....a double whammy. I only say that to suggest that it may be more about quality rather than quantity for you.

If you're interested, read the book "Good Calories, Bad Calories."

I wonder if the book is on Kindle? I will check. Thanks for the advice. I KNOW bad food choices (not the amt of food or calories) thats preventing me from reaching my goal. After the holidays I plan on getting the last 20 or so lbs off for good. Then I can eat whatever I want and maintain! LOL

I believe in everything in moderation. If I get caught up in a "forbidden food list", I'll just obsess about the things I can't have. So if I want a piece of chocolate, I eat a Hershey's sugar free chocolate - it's about 30 calories, and tastes almost the same as regular chocolate. I just pay special attention to my total caloric intake for the day and don't allow myslef to over indulge on foods that don't have any real nutritional value.

Curious when you are eating your bagel are you drinking coffee at the same time? I ask because you put them at the same time. At four months you are still in the prime losing phase. I would look at your diet and make some changes to it with healthy Protein and veggies., Also your schedule is more like all day snacking with no "real" meals....

I know you didn't ask my opinion..

But you know what they say about opinions..

I know I'm not sposed to drink at the same time as eating. I was banded for 3 1/2 yrs prior to being sleeved 4 mths ago and I would literally vomit if I drank while eating. So I abide by the rules (while I know that there's no structure preventing me from drinking while eating, I still feel that "lump" in my throat and I'm scared I will vomit if I try to drink) and wait until I know the fod is settled (usually 30-45 mins). However, I do sip hot liquids (almost always coffee) with my Breakfast. Hot liquids stay down and I just sip it.

I know it's probly still a no no but I never said I abided by ALL the rules. This is my only exception to the "no fluids with meals" rule. And I might take 10 sips total. I don't find it washes food outa my stomach faster...

I love honeymooners. That Ralph Kramden kills me.

But seriously, is this the vet forum? If not then all should answer...as the question was "what is your food philosophy" not "what is your food philosophy veterans".

Ok....so I have a different approach that really worked for me and I'd like to share. Yes this approach evolved over time but it made sense to me and I don't think it gets much voice around here. I abstained during my weight loss. I had to, I have too many trigger foods and can be lead down that bingeful path too easily.

But once I got to goal, I slowly lessened the reigns a bit to allow a few treats here and there. And not all of those were pure crap foods. I now enjoy sweet potato fries a couple times a month (as an example)....one of my all time favorites. But I stayed away from them during my weight loss. Now when I want something, I will try to add it into my diet. If it crashes my nutritional goals or causes me cravings that I can't control, I scratch it off the list and don't try it again.

My point is you can be strict, without thinking it has to be forever. Letting go of that "all or nothing forever" mentality is liberating.

This is the approach I have had in mind also. I have spoke with mu husband on it and he's all in. Even wont eat the Halloween candy I have put in the laundry room. Funny I don't even want it (Thank god)

Today I found out that I cant even eat GF pancakes yet with out craving following. I had my 3 month ck up and had to fast for the blood work this morning. Took a GF pancake muffin with blueberries I had baked last night with me. It was a wake up and go kinda morning. I always make sure I have time for a good breakfast now a days. Anyway I felt weak when I got home an took a nap for the first time in 2 months. A I freaking dreamt of cake. I know now while in this phase I will not be able to afford any unhealthy eating choices as a "main meal". THE CARB MONSTER IS REAL!!!!!

Cake was my addiction. I'd eat the whole damn thing and look for more. Or knowing it was there in the fridge and NO SHITTED wake up at 2 in the morning craving it. I even would leave a fork in the dang thing just for this reason. I'm just realizing this about myself BTW. It's a sad thing really looking at oneself in that kinda light.

But I'm learning myself now and am pleased with my resolve in this matter of what I can do and can not do.

Sorry that was long winded...

Wow, I had no idea that a single sentence would stir up such vehemence! Whatever negativity anyone thinks was there, wasn't. It was a statement, at that time in the thread, it seemed like only honeymooners had replied and I wondered if there is any difference between one's philosophy at the start vs a ways down the road. People might have been encouraged to think of the sentence as negative, because another poster suggested so. That was not the intention. At the risk of further wrath, I also find it fascinating how quickly it escalated into flaming, without any consideration that it might have just been the out loud curiosity of a fellow sleever. I find a lot about what we go through to be fascinating, this journey is never dull!

Wow, I had no idea that a single sentence would stir up such vehemence! Whatever negativity anyone thinks was there, wasn't. It was a statement, at that time in the thread, it seemed like only honeymooners had replied and I wondered if there is any difference between one's philosophy at the start vs a ways down the road. People might have been encouraged to think of the sentence as negative, because another poster suggested so. That was not the intention. At the risk of further wrath, I also find it fascinating how quickly it escalated into flaming, without any consideration that it might have just been the out loud curiosity of a fellow sleever. I find a lot about what we go through to be fascinating, this journey is never dull!

Globe, I have reread the entire thread and I did NOT find your one sentence negative or sarcastic or mean. Sometimes we all would do well to just take the words in and not ascribe an emotional overtone to the words!

And from one of your first posts on this thread:

"One last thing - if you are still in your honeymoon period and already scheming on ways to eat bad/trigger foods, you might want to consider adding therapy to your recovery, I personally consider it essential."

I absolutely agree. Start strict and losen up later. Once loose it is hard to tighten back up (IMHO)...

And I have done this long enough to know my trigger foods and, as I have said, thinking about them is is not a problem for me (thankfully), but if I (personally, me, nobody else) has even one bite than I crave, physically CRAVE more simple carbs for the rest of the day... week... regain period...

And while only 5-6 months out, I could do a master's thesis on how my own fat brain works...

Thank you Arts, truly.

For me, it's neither moderation or abstain forever. It's a combination of both. Generally, I avoid refined carbs, bread, sweets, rice, and Pasta. I try to get in my Protein every day. I try very hard not to graze, though it's a struggle many days. I count calories, ALWAYS. Beyond that, I don't worry about fat grams, number of carbs or anything else. Once in a while, like at a party, I will have whatever is on the menu, even cake. But I can't have that stuff in my house, or I do find myself thinking about eating it, and grazing. Even when I do that, I force myself to count those calories, regardless of how awful it is. That's the one thing that keeps me in check. It also lets me know how much damage I can do in a short amount of time, when I think "it's only a few bites". Just a few bites can add up to a LOT of calories in a short time - even if they are "good" calories. Take nuts, for example. 1 oz of cashews is 160 calories, no carbs, and a healthy snack. I could easily eat 3-4 x that if I let myself, particularly, one nut at a time, all day.

So, for me, I abstain most of the time from some things, but nothing is off limits totally. And when I do have them, I try to do so in moderation on that one occasion. I have made a lifestyle change, so it needs to be something I can live with. I think that's a personal balance for each of us, whatever it might be.

For me, it's neither moderation or abstain forever. It's a combination of both. Generally, I avoid refined carbs, bread, sweets, rice, and Pasta. I try to get in my Protein every day. I try very hard not to graze, though it's a struggle many days. I count calories, ALWAYS. Beyond that, I don't worry about fat grams, number of carbs or anything else. Once in a while, like at a party, I will have whatever is on the menu, even cake. But I can't have that stuff in my house, or I do find myself thinking about eating it, and grazing. Even when I do that, I force myself to count those calories, regardless of how awful it is. That's the one thing that keeps me in check. It also lets me know how much damage I can do in a short amount of time, when I think "it's only a few bites". Just a few bites can add up to a LOT of calories in a short time - even if they are "good" calories. Take nuts, for example. 1 oz of cashews is 160 calories, no carbs, and a healthy snack. I could easily eat 3-4 x that if I let myself, particularly, one nut at a time, all day. So, for me, I abstain most of the time from some things, but nothing is off limits totally. And when I do have them, I try to do so in moderation on that one occasion. I have made a lifestyle change, so it needs to be something I can live with. I think that's a personal balance for each of us, whatever it might be.

You really took the time to summarize how I feel and I just wanted to say that you said it so well!! I say I do moderation, but I still majorly limit the non-healthy stuff by also not keeping it in my house and tracking every single bite. And nuts are ridiculous. I love them and the only way that I can keep them around is by having single serve packs. Otherwise it's too easy to add a few more...

Wow, I had no idea that a single sentence would stir up such vehemence! Whatever negativity anyone thinks was there, wasn't. It was a statement, at that time in the thread, it seemed like only honeymooners had replied and I wondered if there is any difference between one's philosophy at the start vs a ways down the road. People might have been encouraged to think of the sentence as negative, because another poster suggested so. That was not the intention. At the risk of further wrath, I also find it fascinating how quickly it escalated into flaming, without any consideration that it might have just been the out loud curiosity of a fellow sleever. I find a lot about what we go through to be fascinating, this journey is never dull!

Globe, As I said in my nasty retort, I might be wrong but it seemed a certain way to me. You've said that I am wrong, so I am sorry for the misinterpretation. I still feel like it was condescending, but I can't tell you how you meant something, I can only tell you how it made me feel. Thanks for clarifying.

Context is everything. What I know about Globe is that she is about 3 years out, and has experienced the "woo hoo" this is amazing, I lost weight (and look at that amazing provocative photo - I would post it if I had one that looked THAT hot too..haha) and then the harsh realities of a little regain. When I saw her remark I interpeted it as wondering how perspectives change over time... given that i knew that history. Also given that I know she is a nice person and would never intentionally hurt someone unprovoked but also isn't one to wilt away from tough topics. I personally rarely posted on this forum probably my first 6-9 months because I was overly sensitive and processing alot of emotions. I have noticed at times people can easily jump to feeling hurt or targeted which happens all over the internet but i think post weight loss surgery is an emotional time for many of us (well for me anyway!).

I was going to say I don't have a food philosophy but of course that isn't true. My philosophy is to keep adapting to what I need. I use a few measuring sticks - my health (blood work and other measures of health), the scale and my looks. They give me feedback as to whether what I am doing works or it doesn't and I adjust. So, as someone who did not do well with the band, I started out my sleeve journey very strict - I weighed and measured everything, I followed the prescribed list and rules to a "t". I had to swallow some pride and admit that after a lifetime of dieting that only got me fatter, maybe I wasn't such a smarty pants about food and nutrition. I had a couple of times of "disorganized" eating post sleeve and nearly had a panic attack over it... like OMG, only 3 months out and i am already failing AGAIN... I must be failing because i am not perfect, right? I was working with a dietician and she wisely determined that in order for me to transition to a lifelong approach i needed to shift gears. It took a leap of faith for me to stop weighing and measuring since that is the "tried and true" approach to weight loss (and I encourage everyone to keep doing it as it is the most successful strategy for MOST people). She challenged me to trust my body. My thought was, my body is not trustworthy... why the heck should I do that!?! Amazingly, once I used the tools she helped me learn, my weight loss actually accelerated... for awhile.

I got to around 7-8 months out and my weight loss slowed to a crawl. I realized two things were going on. The NUT pointed out that I was slowly starting to "abuse" Protein bars. Ha, can't have snickers but surely Quest bars twice a day is fine, right? Well, I have become aware that I am prone to transferring my food dependance to almost anything and that it is the "disordered" aspect I need to be aware of. For quite awhile, I cut bars completely out of my diet. Second thing I realized is that once I hit about 190 I was feeling pretty comfy and actually had mixed feelings about losing more. I had to work through that before i could continue.

Once I decided to get serious about getting to a normal BMI I went low carb and significantly changed my workout routine. That was what I needed to get to goal in Feb. By midsummer, a few too many parties and BBQs had helped me regain about 5# and so I went on 5:2 to get back under my goal. Miraculously it worked so well, I dropped a few more pounds. Not sure 5:2 is a philosophy - but my point is to keep adapting to what works.

So now in maintenance I do allow indulgences but I pick them carefully. I view it as good health practices - the real dangerous slope for me is to allow a lot of small things interfere. I went to a bday party last night - everybody ate, drank and was merry. I had a glass of wine and some veggie appetizers but I decided i don't even like cake very much, so why eat a slice or two like everyone else did? No deprivation, just doing a little calorie/carb math and decided it wasn't worth it. So, I am both very strict (zero fast food, no junky food in the house etc) but also allow myself indulgences that I truly want AND that don't have a history of triggering hunger. If I start regaining, I will need to look at this again, and adapt as needed.

Sometimes it feels "hard" and I am only 2 years out... long road ahead. I do remind myself though that when I weighed 300# I struggled A LOT to keep from weighing 350# and by comparison, this isn't that hard actually.

CGJane, my respect for you has ratched up another notch, and you were already high up there!