Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

agreement was NOT part of it - and in Judaism, one is NOT incouraged to have faith without the wrestling - and not everyone has to believe everything to still be considered a good, thinking, striving Jew.

Oh, I agree! In Christianity, I don't think anyone should believe because of blind faith, but should question and investigate to form a belief. Is that waht you mean about "wrestling"!

agreement was NOT part of it - and in Judaism, one is NOT incouraged to have faith without the wrestling - and not everyone has to believe everything to still be considered a good, thinking, striving Jew.

So if you can mock fundamentalists and compare them to Taliban, is it OK if I were to mock athiests and compare them to Hitler? Is that acceptable to you??

Hitler made many speeches praising Christianity.

And a lot of other people killed a lot of Jews and Arabs in the name of Christianity, but that doesn't make them Christians. I was using an anology to try to point out that she felt comfortable making those remarks about fundamentalists, but would probally be offended if I made simular remarks about athiests.

Hitler made many speeches praising Christianity.

Hi Ron, Maybe I missed it somewhere in trying to catch up with all of the messages.

When were you banded and how are you doing?

I was banded on 7/19, I am down about 70 lbs. and going for my 3rd fill tomorrow. I also started a local Lap Band Support Group Meeting that meets twice a mon th that has been great support to me antd the other members.

Hi Ron, Maybe I missed it somewhere in trying to catch up with all of the messages.

When were you banded and how are you doing?

Hitler was a "professed" Catholic but a practicing occultist.

I was going to say that but I didn't want to start any more controversy!!

Hitler was a "professed" Catholic but a practicing occultist.

Oh..confusion abounds. I don't mock CHRISTIANITY!!!! I have Christian friends...even Christian minister friends...I mock FANATIC FUNDAMENTALISTS OF ANY STRIPE, because they are dangerous and stupid.

There is NO difference between the Taliban and the Fanatic Christian Fundamentalists...none. They all deserve my derision.

I rest my case. If anyone thinks there's no mockery going on on this thread, GeezerSue admits to it in this post. She justifies it by saying she's not mocking Christianity, but only fundamentalist Christianity, or fundamentalist Christians. And not only is there mockery, but because I am a fundamentalist Christian she is calling me "dangerous", "stupid", and "deserving of derision".

You forgot being a "Taliban"!!

I rest my case. If anyone thinks there's no mockery going on on this thread, GeezerSue admits to it in this post. She justifies it by saying she's not mocking Christianity, but only fundamentalist Christianity, or fundamentalist Christians. And not only is there mockery, but because I am a fundamentalist Christian she is calling me "dangerous", "stupid", and "deserving of derision".

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hitler was a "professed" Catholic but a practicing occultist.

But he praised Christianity. He said it was the foundation of Germany's national morality.

And a lot of other people killed a lot of Jews and Arabs in the name of Christianity, but that doesn't make them Christians. I was using an anology to try to point out that she felt comfortable making those remarks about fundamentalists, but would probally be offended if I made simular remarks about athiests.

What war has a fundamentist atheist ever caused?:faint:

Then allow me to say this to you and to the board . . .

 

I fully accept the right of anyone here to believe or not believe anything they want. I have said that repeatedly, but no one is hearing it. I believe that what I believe is 100% absolute and correct, but I recognize others here do not believe that. I can accept that.

 

What I can't accept is people making disparing, mocking remarks about my faith, because they don't believe it. I am not imaging this because some have openly admitted doing so. You want names, I can give you names!People can call me anything they want, but when they make a mockery out of my God and my faith, I am going to get in their face about it.

 

If during the course of this long, long exchange, I have become overly aggressive, it is because I was offended for my faith. If some feel that I have offended them, I apolige to the group for that, again. I was wrong about a post I made about the moderators, and I also apoligized about that. When I make mistakes, I am not above owning them.

 

If some want to disagree with me about my beliefs, even argue with me and question me about it, I don't have a problem with that. I will respect your "unbelief", but you also need to respect my "belief" and my right to express it freely. It has to be a two-way street.

I am cool with this, Cusano.

My own history has been fraught. Most of my father's side of the family perished in the Holocaust. My father was sufficiently traumatised by this that he didn't tell me that he was Jewish until I was 21. And though my parents were atheists, as I am myself, I was sent off to a boarding school run by Anglo-Catholic nuns for 8.5 years of my life.

Moreover, I grew up and still live in one of the large cities in Canada, a country that has been carefully trying to remake itself into a multi-cultural haven for some decades now. It had always been my own parents' desire and now it has become the Canadian urban style that everyone should be welcomed and respected into our environment. Much of this nice touchy-feely stuff has actually become enshrined in federal law over the past 25+ years. This is why same sex couples are permitted to engage in civil marriages up here.

But I digress. Most of my father's side of the family did not survive. They were destroyed during the Holocaust. The few who did make it carried grave psychological damage. This would include my father.

I lived in France. I saw evidence of anti-Semitism against both the Jews and the Arabs. From the reports which I have received since then, the situation for all Semites is deteriorating.

As for my own experience as a well educated and affluent downtown urbanite, well, once I switched from working in a well educated white collar university milieu to that of a blue collar unionized environment I was exposed to a lot of naked sexism and anti-Semitism. I could deal with the sexism but the anti-Semitism broke my heart. My father didn't want to tell me that he was Jewish. He was afraid of me being exposed to more of the same (even though I would only be considered Jewish to a racist). The dude was very damaged by his environment.

This is why I will always be anxious for you, Cusano, to have the right to express your love for your beliefs and it is obvious that you are a passionate individual. The deal is that you must give those of us who dissent equal respect and the reasons for this are multifold.

It is always true that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Should you wish to interest us in your passion, hectoring is certainly the wrong approach to take.

You must also understand that quite a few of us are in fact quite well-educated and thoughtful and thus we, too, want to be respected just as you yourself wish to be respected.

I wish to point out to you that you are speaking to a wide audience. You have no idea what the stories are behind our emotional and intellectual backgrounds. I, for instance, have just told you that most of my father's family perished during the Holocaust and that those who did manage to survive have issues of trust.

When you present your religious vision in such an insensitive and aggressive manner this can resurrect a lot of negative views about your religion. This is, in fact, the very thing which is causing a schism between many American Christians today. There are many moderate Christians who are very freaked out by the fundamentalist movement.

So if you can mock fundamentalists and compare them to Taliban, is it OK if I were to mock athiests and compare them to Hitler? Is that acceptable to you??

You can compare atheists to Tinkerbell or komodo dragons for all I care, for--at least--these reasons:

1. I don't speak for all atheists.
   
   
2. I don't claim to represent other atheists.
   
   
3. (I am not even in possession of the Atheists Secret Decoder Ring, which might allow us to discern what the rules--if there are any--REALLY mean in spite of what they say...all the while insisting that what they say is accurate.)
   
   
4. Since there is no discernable relationship between Hitler and atheists, such a comparison would just serve as MORE evidence that what you say makes no sense.
   
   
5. Nothing else you say is acceptable to me, why should we bring in stuff like "acceptability" at this point in our relationship?
   

But feel free...no skin off MY nose. See, Ron, MY agenda is not to prove to the world that I have the keys to the magic kingdom...my agenda is just pointing out naked emperors. March on in that pretty new suit!!