Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

I don't, and I don't think most of the people here do, either. Criticizing how a person tries to spread his or her beliefs isn't the same as attacking the belief system. Obviously, as an atheist, I don't think Christianity is valid. But that wasn't a conclusion I came to because of the actions of Christians.

And I think we can debate on who is or isn't a Whosit. What person one may consider as subscribing to the tenets of Whositism, person two may consider to be going beyond those tenets. Of course, person two would be considered to be people who aren't living up to those tenets by person one.

But I think we can all agree that Hitler wasn't a Christian in any way, shape, or form.

To expect me to keep my faith to myself is to ask me to not practice my faith.

No one has asked you to keep your faith to yourself. We would just like you to show a little respect to us and our faith systems (or lack thereof).

Neither do I, and neither do most of us. I haven't seen that claim made here.

I'd lay odds there are several on this thread that equate the two. I'm not going to name names, but the silence (other than you and laurend) is deafening.

To be honest, I think that has been expressed and certainly implied but at least two that come to mind.

Neither do I, and neither do most of us. I haven't seen that claim made here.

To be honest, I think that has been expressed and certainly implied but at least two that come to mind.

Now that I think more about it, I believe it has been said outright. I don't have the time or energy to find it, though, as I'm running out the door to pick my daughter up from [gasp] our fundamentalist Christian church.

I'm not going to name names, but the silence (other than you and laurend) is deafening.

LBT was also down for a few minutes. Some people may not have checked the thread again.

I do and have said so repeatedly. Trying to engage discussion on beliefs or non-beliefs if not disrespectful in the least. And, I have had some interesting, sincere exchanges with some, but what seems to happen, is that a few agitators feel obligated to jump in to provoke and mock, and we deteriorate back into the abyss!!

No one has asked you to keep your faith to yourself. We would just like you to show a little respect to us and our faith systems (or lack thereof).

I do and have said so repeatedly. Trying to engage discussion on beliefs or non-beliefs if not disrespectful in the least. And, I have had some interesting, sincere exchanges with some, but what seems to happen, is that a few agitators feel obligated to jump in to provoke and mock, and we deteriorate back into the abyss!!

Ron, saying you respect the beliefs of others isn't the same thing as showing that respect. Yes, you have said that you respect our beliefs, but you haven't shown that respect.

OK! Tell me specifically how you fell I was disrespectful of others beliefs at ay time that I was no first provoked or mocked! Show me!!

Ron, saying you respect the beliefs of others isn't the same thing as showing that respect. Yes, you have said that you respect our beliefs, but you haven't shown that respect.

Ron, your arrogance is amazing. I too have been offended by some of the remarks by non-beleivers. I have stated my faith and my beleifs. I can not force someone to respect me. You might have heard the old saying that respect is earned. I truely beleive that some of the hurtfull comments about Christianity came about as a result of your posts. Some were just mean spirited and getting outwardly upset will do nothing to make that person change, it only fuels the fire. God does give us free will as you stated. It is our job to bring the message to non-believers, but no where does the bible state that we should pick fights with them if they don't agree. So maybe shame on Lisa and me, but you know what? I am still very secure in my beleifs and the way I present myself.

Neal,

Thank you for being a voice of reason in a cacophony of insanity. There are a number of Christians here who are offended not just by the animosity toward our religious beliefs, but also the way our beliefs are being portrayed. I tried to voice that sentiment 20 pages ago. This is not about the Word of G-d, but personal battle of wills on both sides. This saddens me a great deal.

My belief that Jesus Christ was the Son of G-d and that he died for my sins and was resurrected on the 3rd day does not mean that I am weak willed or in need of "myths" to guide me through a life that is too scary without them; nor do I feel the need to force my beliefs on anyone else. I personally do not believe that the Koran is the word of G-d or that the "god" of the Koran is the same as the G-d of the bible, even though the players are the same the message is substantially different. However, I do realize that there are a great many good people wo do not share this belief.

The best thing that I can do, as a Christian, is not to profess my beliefs so vehemently that I drown out the voice of reason, but to make every attempt to LIVE that life as an example to those who might learn from it.

Just as I feel that Ron may have lost his way in all of this, I also believe that there are those on the opposite side of the debate who are relishing in the error of his ways in order to give voice to their own agenda.

OK! Tell me specifically how you fell I was disrespectful of others beliefs at ay time that I was no first provoked or mocked! Show me!!

Okay...

When this thread first started, you implied that atheists were ignorant and uneducated. That isn't respect. And to be honest, your responses to people challenging you over it came across as mocking.

You've told some of the Christians here that they didn't know what they were talking about and that they weren't good Christians.

You've called us desparate and vultures, you've implied that no one knows as much as you about Christianity and its values, you've used patronizing language, you've called people dishonest, you've called others "spiritually blind", you've implied that atheists are as bad as thieves, liars, murderers, and bigots, you've compared us to Sodomites, you've compared us to roaches (crawling out of the woodwork). Shall I continue?

mdicurn: I've been trying to sit back and read and to stop being so passionate and feeling so disturbed about some of the things that have been said here. I've been trying to be objective about both sides in this argument.

You have done a really good job of stating how you feel in a very calm, confident way. And I share in many of the same feelings that you expressed.

In your last sentence you say that you believe that there are people on the opposite side of the fence from Ron who are relishing in the error of his ways in order to give voice to their own agenda. It is true that I am glad that his errors have become so apparent, but not because of a political agenda. I am glad because I want people to know that the Bible does not say that to spread the word, you must hound people and belittle people who do not respond to your mission.

This type of behavior by a Christian(s) has caused great discomfort to some of us and it's no surprise to anyone that we are relieved to see that most people posting here have apparently finally gotten the message.

With evangelical christianity the two become one because part of the tenents of our faith is that we need to share it with others. We do that by sharing the biblical truths that we believe. Apparently, sharing what I believe, and sharing it to be untimate truth, which I believe it to be, is what everyone gets upset about.

To expect me to keep my faith to myself is to ask me to not practice my faith.

Part of the tenets of your faith is that you need to share it with others you claim, but I doubt that any of the tenets of your faith is that you need to shove it down the throats of others.

When you and I debate, I tell you want I think, and you tell me what you know. If you would express faith as faith, instead of faith as knowledge, we could debate and maybe even argue, but when you are 100% sure of your righteousness, we talk past each other without listening.

I and at least one other person in this thread has mentioned that faith is not knowing, that if you know, then you do not need faith.

I have faith that the Bible is accurate (lets not debate figurative or literal right now), but you have knowledge that the Bible is accurate. Your proof is the Bible; "Scriptures interpret scriptures."

"I feel that you should..." goes a lot further than "I know that you must...".

Did you really want to talk about antisemitism in France?

Hitler claimed to be a Christian and you say he wasn't. BuSh says he is a Christian who takes his orders from Jesus. Do you believe BuSh? I don't. We can discuss that. Why would you believe one and not the other?

No one is attacking your faith. We are attacking your idea that your faith is the only valid faith, because it can be proven. If it could be proven, it would not be faith.

I'd lay odds there are several on this thread that equate the two. I'm not going to name names, but the silence (other than you and laurend) is deafening.

I've been gone for a while and I'm still hearing crickets. Alexandra and laurend, I think you'd be surprised with how many people equate fanaticism and fundamentalism.

I've been gone for a while and I'm still hearing crickets. Alexandra and laurend, I think you'd be surprised with how many people equate fanaticism and fundamentalism.

 

5 results for: fanaticism

 

View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source fa·nat·i·cism /fəˈnætəˌsaɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fuh-nat-uh-sahyz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun fanatical character, spirit, or conduct.

[Origin: 1705–15; fanatic + -ism]

 

 

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source fa·nat·i·cism (fə-nāt'ĭ-sĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key

n. Excessive, irrational zeal.

 

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. WordNet - Cite This Source fanaticism

nounexcessive intolerance of opposing views

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source Main Entry: fa·nat·i·cism

Pronunciation: f&-'nat-&-"siz-&m

Function: noun

: fanatic outlook or behavior especially as exhibited by excessive enthusiasm, unreasoning zeal, or wild and extravagant notions on some subject

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source

faˈnaticism [-sizəm] noun

(too) great enthusiasm, especially about religion

Example: Fanaticism is the cause of most religious hatred.

 

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4 results for: fundamentalism

 

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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source fun·da·men·tal·ism /ˌfʌndəˈmɛntlˌɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fuhn-duh-men-tl-iz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.(sometimes initial capital letter) a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming. 2.the beliefs held by those in this movement. 3.strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles: the fundamentalism of the extreme conservatives.

[Origin: 1920–25, Americanism; fundamental + -ism]

 

—Related formsfun·da·men·tal·ist, noun, adjective

 

 

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source fun·da·men·tal·ism (fŭn'də-měn'tl-ĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key

n.

1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
   
   1. 
      
   2. often Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
      
   3. Adherence to the theology of this movement.

fun'da·men'tal·ist adj. & n., fun'da·men'tal·ist'ic adj.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. WordNet - Cite This Source fundamentalism

nounthe interpretation of every word in the sacred texts as literal truth

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition - Cite This Source

fundamentalism

 

A conservative movement in theology among nineteenth- and twentieth-century Christians. Fundamentalists believe that the statements in the Bible are literally true.

Note

: Fundamentalists often argue against the theory of

evolution

. (

See

Scopes trial

.)