Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

With all due respect, what some attacks Jesus and my faith, they are attacking me and I do take it personally. The can disbelieve and I have no problem with that, but when someone trys to make a mockery out of my faith, yeah, I will take it personally. There is no reason for it.

If I said disparaging things about Jew, Arabs, Irish or blacks, I would expect them to take it personally too! Wouldn't you? Why can't we disagree without going for the throat?

Why can't we, indeed? I'd like to see you display some of that, please.

I doubt Sue would agree with you, and I daresay there are a lot of others on this thread that would disagree as well. I also doubt they'll speak up.

I'll speak up. I don't think you are a fanatic. Fundamentalist, yes. Fanatic? No. I think you are a highly educated woman. I definitely don't agree with a lot of your beliefs, but you aren't a fanatic.

I doubt Sue would agree with you, and I daresay there are a lot of others on this thread that would disagree as well. I also doubt they'll speak up.

Correction. I don't doubt Sue would agree with you. I know she wouldn't. She has called me such (I'm not looking up individual posts while I say this, so if not in so many words, certainly in spirit), and she's said very hateful things to me on other threads.

Alexandra, I think Ron's said more than once that people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe. And I know a lot of people on this thread lump me and Ron together, so I'll say it again. People have the right to believe whatever they want.

That being said, don't we all think our belief is right? If an athiest didn't believe that there wasn't a God, would he still be an athiest? Doesn't he think he's right in his belief that there isn't a God? Don't people who don't take the Bible literally believe they are right in not doing so? And haven't they said as much on this thread? Similarly, why is it wrong for people who DO take the Bible literally to say that they believe others are wrong in their beliefs?

I am a libertarian. I believe people are entitled to do whatever they want to do (so long as it doesn't interfere with other peoples' rights) and believe whatever they want to believe. But that doesn't mean I have to believe that their actions and their beliefs are RIGHT. I just have to believe it's OK for them to do or have them. If you think drinking green tea will cure an infection, when really you need antibiotics, you are entitled to your opinion -- but it won't CURE you!

You and Ron share a belief system, yet somehow you manage not to pick fights with people or try to change their minds or tell them they are wrong. What is Ron doing differently?

I'll speak up. I don't think you are a fanatic. Fundamentalist, yes. Fanatic? No. I think you are a highly educated woman.

. . . whose husband is the head of her household.

(lest anyone get riled up, that was a JOKE , and you'd have to have read through this whole thread to get it)

Thank you, laurend. I think what I'm saying is that some people equate fundamentalistism with fanaticism. Knowing Sue was one of those people, I took her charge of "dangerous", "stupid", and "deserving of derision" to be directed at me.

I'll be honest, I think religion is the root of a lot of the evil in the world. Does that mean that I think that every person that practices religion is bad? No, it doesn't. But I do think that a lot of people that consider themselves "good Christians", "good Jews", "good Muslims", or "good Whosits" do a lot of bad things in the name of their higher power. Saying, "Well, they obviously weren't good Whosits" doesn't matter. You wouldn't be a good Whosit to them.

I think what I'm saying is that some people equate fundamentalistism with fanaticism.

Well, I think you have to admit that most fanatics are fundamentalists. I think people do have a greater chance of being a fanatic if they are a fundamentalist, but I also think you have to take it on a person by person basis.

ETA: Religious fanatics, that is.

You and Ron share a belief system, yet somehow you manage not to pick fights with people or try to change their minds or tell them they are wrong. What is Ron doing differently?

Again, I'm not sure everyone would agree with you. There are many who think I try to pick fights or change minds.

For want of a better term, I think it's our usual audience that makes the difference.

My parents are both transplanted New Yorkers. Living in California, which is much more laid back, they can seem abrasive to some people. Some of my employees have told me they can deal with me fine, but they can't handle my mom. The funny thing is, she and I agree on pretty much everything, yet they would rather have me tell them "XYZ" than my mom tell them the exact same thing. Ron's approach is a function of his life and his ministry.

Let me give you another example. Last week I was in Las Vegas and I was on the Strip watching the fountains at Bellagio with my parents. All in front of the fountains were street evangalists with megaphones preaching (I've never seen this before; usually I'm accosted by people handing out porn). Besides the normal "they have guts to do that in THIS city!" thoughts, I also wondered if they would get through to anyone. A guy with a megaphone would never get through to me. But then I noticed that one of the evangalists had put down his megaphone and was having a heart-to-heart conversation with a non-Christian who had been walking by. They talked calmly for at least 20 minutes, at which point my ride arrived and I had to leave.

Would a megaphone get through to me? No. To you? Perhaps not. But to that guy on the street, it was the impetus that started the conversation. We all have our methods and they don't work with everyone.

I'll be honest, I think religion is the root of a lot of the evil in the world. Does that mean that I think that every person that practices religion is bad? No, it doesn't. But I do think that a lot of people that consider themselves "good Christians", "good Jews", "good Muslims", or "good Whosits" do a lot of bad things in the name of their higher power. Saying, "Well, they obviously weren't good Whosits" doesn't matter. You wouldn't be a good Whosit to them.

But you shouldn't base your opinion of the validity of the Whosit religion on what the so-called Whosits (who aren't really Whosits because they don't subscribe to what the Whosit religion preaches) do.

Well, I think you have to admit that most fanatics are fundamentalists. I think people do have a greater chance of being a fanatic if they are a fundamentalist, but I also think you have to take it on a person by person basis.

ETA: Religious fanatics, that is.

Ahhhh, but the reverse is not also true. Are most fundamentalists fanatics? I don't think so!

Oh, I have tried to and will continue to, but you don't expect me to sit quietly while someone mocks and provokes me, do you? Would you??

Why can't we, indeed? I'd like to see you display some of that, please.

You know what!! We agree on something! But, not all "good Christians", "good Jews", "good Muslims", "good Whosits" or "good athiests" come out of the same mold. You just have to be true to what you believe or not believe!

I'll be honest, I think religion is the root of a lot of the evil in the world. Does that mean that I think that every person that practices religion is bad? No, it doesn't. But I do think that a lot of people that consider themselves "good Christians", "good Jews", "good Muslims", or "good Whosits" do a lot of bad things in the name of their higher power. Saying, "Well, they obviously weren't good Whosits" doesn't matter. You wouldn't be a good Whosit to them.

But you shouldn't base your opinion of the validity of the Whosit religion on what the so-called Whosits (who aren't really Whosits because they don't subscribe to what the Whosit religion preaches) do.

I don't, and I don't think most of the people here do, either. Criticizing how a person tries to spread his or her beliefs isn't the same as attacking the belief system. Obviously, as an atheist, I don't think Christianity is valid. But that wasn't a conclusion I came to because of the actions of Christians.

And I think we can debate on who is or isn't a Whosit. What person one may consider as subscribing to the tenets of Whositism, person two may consider to be going beyond those tenets. Of course, person two would be considered to be people who aren't living up to those tenets by person one.

Ahhhh, but the reverse is not also true. Are most fundamentalists fanatics? I don't think so!

Neither do I, and neither do most of us. I haven't seen that claim made here.

With evangelical christianity the two become one because part of the tenents of our faith is that we need to share it with others. We do that by sharing the biblical truths that we believe. Apparently, sharing what I believe, and sharing it to be untimate truth, which I believe it to be, is what everyone gets upset about.

To expect me to keep my faith to myself is to ask me to not practice my faith.

I don't, and I don't think most of the people here do, either. Criticizing how a person tries to spread his or her beliefs isn't the same as attacking the belief system. Obviously, as an atheist, I don't think Christianity is valid. But that wasn't a conclusion I came to because of the actions of Christians.

And I think we can debate on who is or isn't a Whosit. What one person may consider as subscribing to the tenets of Whositism, another may consider to be going beyond those tenets. Of course, those that consider it to be going beyond the tenets would be considered to be people who aren't living up to those tenets by the same people that they think are going beyond them.