I just read this article on the "Quiverfull" movement where the idea is to have as many kids as possible and that "God is the only one who can open or close the womb". Some of these idiots have 12, 18 and 20 kids.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I'll just assume that everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to know the reasons why this is a really bad idea, such as our severely dwindling environmental resources, for one.

On a more mundane level, every time someone complains about a new development going up behind their house, or long lines at the supermarket, or horrible traffic, I feel like screaming "that's because people are having too many *bleeping* kids!

It makes me so mad that people are so dumb.

I find this to be weird in the extreme....and very, very disturbing.

From the testimony of Jill L. Stanek, RN

U. S. House of Representatives Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution Hearing

"Born Alive Infants Protection Act of 2001"

July 12, 2001

After I testified last year, Christ Hospital stopped putting aborted babies to die in the Soiled Utility Room. This past December it unveiled its "Comfort Room." This is a small, nicely decorated room complete with a First Foto machine in case parents want pictures of their aborted babies, baptismal supplies if parents would like their aborted babies baptized, and a foot printer and baby bracelets if parents would like keepsakes of their aborted babies. There is also a wooden rocker to rock these babies to death. (Pictures entered into Congressional Record.)

This is not disturbing, it's twisted! Why do they even bother to perform the procedure then?

Well I'm sure all of you by now would have guessed that I support a woman's right to choose. That being said, it's not something I want to fight about. I absolutely don't think that arguing with someone who is pro-life would ever, ever in a million years, change their mind.

The things I like to argue about are things which I hope would make people think, and maybe do research and maybe make them start recycling, or go ahead and buy that earth-friendly product, or maybe support a local business instead of Walmart.

I also argue alot about Gay marriage, because I do think that maybe if people are more educated about it, they might soften their views towards Gays a little bit.

But abortion? That belief is just so deeply held, and its opponents so impassioned, that I feel defeated before I even open my mouth to express my points. Therefor, I'm not going to fight about this one, but more power to you who have the gumption!

Finally, I wanted to say that although I've had it out with Leatha on another thread (about Gay marriage), I am inspired by her open willingness to disclose so much about her life, and would encourage anyone to be sensitive to those here who are willing to be so open about their personal lives, no matter what the issue. We can all argue, fight even, about "issues", but when it becomes personal we need to step back and take a breath. I'm not admonishing anyone particular of course, but just wanted to say that.

Sunta...

I agree with you about Wal Mart and about gay rights, too. And I also admire the posters who have shared their personal stories regarding abortion. They have the strength of their convictions, and that is GREAT. To thine own self be true.

Why would she NOT be a person? Just because she was not wanted?

No....because she was an aborted fetus. She was not born a person - not legally, anyway. It was much later that the doctor who performed the abortion was asked to sign her birth certificate. I wonder if that weirded him out a little bit.

Grieving for what???? They ABORTED these babies!!! That means they chose to KILL them!!!

If someone kills your child, would you think it appropriate if they showed up at the funeral to "grieve" your baby's death?

So if I'm carrying a fetus that will not live beyond a few hours no matter how I birth it, and I choose to abort it, I have no right to grieve? When I made my choice believing that my baby was going to die no matter what? When I don't believe I killed it, but that nature or God or whoever did and I'm dealing with that?

Disclaimer, I'm not saying that is the case for all of these, but is it so far-fetched that it is in some?

What I would take from this is that to the anti choice folks is that the fetus' survival is more important than the mother's....? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yup, pretty much.

Why do they even bother to perform the procedure then?

This room is probably used MOSTLY for the comfort of parents who lost a child in utero, which was "aborted" (i.e., delivered stillborn) to save the life of the mother, or was delivered and allowed to die due to birth defects. I can't even fathom the mind of a person who would voluntarily and purposefully terminate an unwanted pregnancy and then want keepsakes or mementos of that baby. The institution where this room is clearly has an agenda, and so the facility is presented in the most appalling light imaginable to make its point.

This is not disturbing, it's twisted! Why do they even bother to perform the procedure then?

They set up the so-called Comfort Room after two of their nurses testified during Congressional hearings that living (aborted) fetuses were taken to a Soiled Linen Room, covered with dirty towels, and left to die. That was not an image that the hospital wanted the public to have, so a group of PR geniuses came up with the concept of this special room and some committee obviously went nuts with it. No one, evidently, bothered to see the irony....offering comfort and beautiful surroundings, not to mention souvenirs, to babies nobody wanted in the first place, and the parents who meant to kill them, but failed.

Fresh from CNN.com:

New York faces all-day rush hour by 2030

POSTED: 11:42 a.m. EST, December 13, 2006

var clickExpire = "01/12/2007"; Story Highlights

• New York may not be able to meet electricity, housing needs, experts warn

• Packed subways, roads could mean all-day rush hour

• New York's status as global city could be challenged, expert warns

• Tax vehicles, charge residents for trash, experts recommend

Adjust font size:

NEW YORK (AP) -- By the year 2030, New York City could have so many people straining its infrastructure that it won't have enough electricity or housing to meet demand, and rush hour traffic will last all day.

The city of 8.2 million people must start planning and building now for the expected growth of 1 million more over the next 25 years, Mayor Michael Bloomberg and a panel of experts warned.

"We now have the freedom to take on the obstacles looming in the city's future and to begin clearing them away before they become rooted in place," Bloomberg said Tuesday.

Some of the findings presented Tuesday by a team of city planners, academics, scientists and environmentalists who have spent the past year studying the city's infrastructure and assessing its viability to cope include:

• In 25 years, rails and roads will be "crammed beyond capacity" and won't be able to accommodate the swarm of commuters during what is now considered normal rush hour. Lawmakers must act now to not only expand the road network but also to update the subway system, which was built starting in 1901 and still uses signal and switch technology developed before the 1940s.

• The city will need thousands more housing units. And it has to be affordable -- already, more than a third of city renters fork over more than half their income for rent, the group said.

• Energy demand could exceed supply by as early as 2012, and by 2030 the majority of the city's power plants will be more than 50 years old. The city needs to improve efficiency, use alternative energy sources and modernize its grid, which was built in the 1920s.

New York must not only meet the needs of its growing population but has to stay competitive as a global city, said Robert D. Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association, a nonpartisan planning group.

"We can't put our head in the sand," he said. "We know that Shanghai and London and other great world cities that are competing with us are making plans like these and are doing a great job of building new economies and building the infrastructure systems."

Suggestions offered by the expert panel included taxing vehicles that drive into Manhattan's most heavily trafficked neighborhoods, called congestion pricing; and charging residents by the pound for the trash they throw out.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

It's not going to happen b/c all the NYers keep moving down here.

So if I'm carrying a fetus that will not live beyond a few hours no matter how I birth it, and I choose to abort it, I have no right to grieve? When I made my choice believing that my baby was going to die no matter what? When I don't believe I killed it, but that nature or God or whoever did and I'm dealing with that?

Disclaimer, I'm not saying that is the case for all of these, but is it so far-fetched that it is in some?

If you signed up for an abortion, then neither nature nor God killed your baby. Sorry to tell you, but that's a fact.

They set up the so-called Comfort Room after two of their nurses testified during Congressional hearings that living (aborted) fetuses were taken to a Soiled Linen Room, covered with dirty towels, and left to die.

Lovely practice for a religious institution, NOT.

Does that sound like something that would happen in a reputable hospital? If it did happen, it was probably to hide the fact that a doctor was performing a procedure frowned upon by management, and that couldn't be done in the light of day and under normal hospital procedure. Ugh, all around.

I mean real answers, not talking ferries and Disney. We live in a real world, with real issues, and people w/some real problems.

So, if you are raped or a the fetus is a product of incest how is that any different. The circumstance of how the child was concieved is different, but the fetus is the same. Just looking for justification or how it's any different. What about the tons of cases where the child has been strong enough to survive and the mother couldn't.

I thank God my mother wanted me and raised me. I couldn't imagine if she didn't want me. I guess I just know to many real world situations that are sad and dear to my heart. I hate to see kids suffer.

Ok, because of a bad choice of words on my part, I've opened a can of worms for myself. I respect that and it's well deserved though.

My last statement, this is what I believe, regardless of what the other posts I wrote seemed to say when analyzed so thoroughly.

I am pro-life.

The only reasons that abortion COULD be acceptable, and only on a case by case basis are, Incest Rape and if the life of the mother is at stake and the baby has no chance of living. I think most instances would not call for the abortion.

Again, I can see where the Grey statement could be picked at, after reading your posts and being called on it, I guess yes, there is a little grey area, but honestly at the time of writing that, I didn't believe these instances to be grey. I thought they were just common sense.

I would like to take Rape off that list, it's off for me, but I will stand by it on a case by case basis only because of my Religion.

Whoever said that the fetus is the same, no matter how it is conceived is right, your right. That's why I wouldn't have an abortion if raped and if it was incest I couldn't make that decision on my own in that emtional state and would need much counseling for that.

Abortion is just morally wrong and disgusting. I can't even believe that anyone would be ok with it , especially after reading what it entails and seeing pictures. It's just terrible and it breaks my heart.

On most other issues I always have the "Whatever someone believes is ok with me." attitude, and respect their decisions. Not on this though, I can't respect someone's belief who is ok with this terrible terrible way of killing a child.

Even the whole Gay marriage thing, I ofcourse am against it, but then if someone is for it, I'm ok with that. whatever floats your boat, it isn't killing anyone.

If you signed up for an abortion, then neither nature nor God killed your baby. Sorry to tell you, but that's a fact.

Unless you need a procedure to remove an already-dead fetus. That's who's likely using the "Comfort Room."

You can call them "babies"...I can call them "evidence of a crime" (in some cases), but what they ARE is fetuses...and that's all.

We can anthropomorphize til the cows come home, they just aren't people....(uh...the fetuses, not the cows...just being clear.)

The institution where this room is clearly has an agenda, and so the facility is presented in the most appalling light imaginable to make its point.

The institution is Christ's Hospital in Chicago. What agenda could they possibly have? On the contrary, they set up the room after two of their nursing staff testified before Congress that babies who survived abortions were being left to die in a Soiled Linen Room.

If you signed up for an abortion, then neither nature nor God killed your baby. Sorry to tell you, but that's a fact.

So the reason, the motivation for deciding to abort, has no bearing on this for you?