I just read this article on the "Quiverfull" movement where the idea is to have as many kids as possible and that "God is the only one who can open or close the womb". Some of these idiots have 12, 18 and 20 kids.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I'll just assume that everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to know the reasons why this is a really bad idea, such as our severely dwindling environmental resources, for one.

On a more mundane level, every time someone complains about a new development going up behind their house, or long lines at the supermarket, or horrible traffic, I feel like screaming "that's because people are having too many *bleeping* kids!

It makes me so mad that people are so dumb.

The institution is Christ's Hospital in Chicago. What agenda could they possibly have? On the contrary, they set up the room after two of their nursing staff testified before Congress that babies who survived abortions were being left to die in a Soiled Linen Room.

Well that's my point. What sort of hospital puts aborted fetuses (alive or dead) in the Soiled Linen Room? One that doesn't want to own up to doing abortions.

Unless you need a procedure to remove an already-dead fetus. That's who's likely using the "Comfort Room."

Been there, done that...but, the "comfort room" would have creeped me out. Silly me, I was sad/disappointed for a day or so, but figured that spontaneous first trimester abortions (with or without fetal expulsion) were "nature's way of telling me" (figure of speech, of course...I don't generally commune with nature, upper or lower case) that something was just not meant to be. This happened to me more than once, BTW.

I also knew people who went completely overboard nuts with THEIR spontaneous first trimester abortions (aka miscarriages) and there was drama and hysteria and memorial services with empty little pretend coffins and all kinds of sick shit and I just never got it. These are the kind of people who, when they opt for a therapeutic abortion later decide that they committed a great sin and end up on the religious right's websites and talk shows seeking absolution for the public at large. (Interestingly enough, the most dramatic of my acquaintances who went Drama Queen over a miscarriage has three kids...one a convicted felon on crack living in her garage, one a former cop that no department will rehire and who never paid a dime of child support for HIS kids, and the third who got arrested while shoplifting...she was rather visible at age 17 and nine-months pregnant and wearing her Catholic School uniform in maternity style, so imagine how surprised she was when she got arrested again, a year later for shoplifting at the same store while NOT pregnant. She figured they wouldn't recognize her. What this family needed was another kid...)

If you signed up for an abortion, then neither nature nor God killed your baby. Sorry to tell you, but that's a fact.

Exactly, I agree! If you voluntarily go for an abortion (with a live fetus of course), YOU killed your baby...not God, not nature...YOU. Is it a choice? Legally, yes. But it's the height of selfishness. It's an extremely selfish "choice" to kill your baby for your own "convenience". Someone said that it's sometimes easier on the mother to kill her unborn child rather than give it up for adoption. Again, that's the height of selfishness. Chances are the baby would have liked to live!

Well that's my point. What sort of hospital puts aborted fetuses (alive or dead) in the Soiled Linen Room? One that doesn't want to own up to doing abortions.

Alexandra...The "Soiled Linen Room" Scenario is the norm. Any facility that performs abortions has to deal with this complication (live births instead of dead fetuses). Unless there is a public hue and cry, they aren't likely to expend any money or effort to "pretty up" the whole issue.

I know you don't want to believe this, but it's true. I have family in the medical field and one cousin who quit nursing and is now a librarian because she just could not deal with this (and other) realities. The apple is well polished by the time it gets to the public.

I am pro-life.

The only reasons that abortion COULD be acceptable, and only on a case by case basis are, Incest Rape and if the life of the mother is at stake and the baby has no chance of living. I think most instances would not call for the abortion.

Again, I can see where the Grey statement could be picked at, after reading your posts and being called on it, I guess yes, there is a little grey area, but honestly at the time of writing that, I didn't believe these instances to be grey. I thought they were just common sense.

I would like to take Rape off that list, it's off for me, but I will stand by it on a case by case basis only because of my Religion.

Whoever said that the fetus is the same, no matter how it is conceived is right, your right. That's why I wouldn't have an abortion if raped and if it was incest I couldn't make that decision on my own in that emtional state and would need much counseling for that.

Abortion is just morally wrong and disgusting. I can't even believe that anyone would be ok with it , especially after reading what it entails and seeing pictures. It's just terrible and it breaks my heart.

On most other issues I always have the "Whatever someone believes is ok with me." attitude, and respect their decisions. Not on this though, I can't respect someone's belief who is ok with this terrible terrible way of killing a child.

I don't believe in abortion for myself, but I can't force my beliefs on someone else. I also can't carry the fetus, take care of it when it's born financially or other wise. I can behind prevention, but I try to use some common sense and be real.

I don't personally know any fetuses that were aborted, but I do see on the news everyday that children that are abused and murdered. I also have a friend that spent her life since age 3 being shuttled from foster home to foster home. I also personally know crack babies.

I have a cousin who sends her 11 month old baby from home to home b/c she didn't want her in the first place. I see the way she refers to her and treats her, but want let anyone adopt her. She was all up for adoption until the baby was born. She is 21, never wanted any children and only cares about finishing her college degree, b/c that comes 1st.

I have shed many tears and I am not a heartless person. I just don't like seeing people treating kids wrong period. If 1/2 the people out here against abortion would adopt a kid, that would help. There aren't many people out here adopting the crack babies, abused kids, or minority kids. People are a lot of talk plain and simple.

If 1/2 the people out here against abortion would adopt a kid, that would help. There aren't many people out here adopting the crack babies, abused kids, or minority kids. People are a lot of talk plain and simple.

I did adopt "a kid", thank you very much. His name is Tommy and he is now a responsible adult, a wonderful husband, and a devoted father. Had he been aborted, which he surely would have been if it had been legal at the time, it would have been a huge loss to the world.

My biological, much-wanted daughter, on the other hand, is a mess. If abortion were retroactive, I might consider it. But people ARE willing to adopt crack babies, abused kids, etc. In fact, there aren't enough of them to satisfy the demand, so US couples are going to China and Russia to adopt.

Exactly, I agree! If you voluntarily go for an abortion (with a live fetus of course), YOU killed your baby...not God, not nature...YOU. Is it a choice? Legally, yes. But it's the height of selfishness. It's an extremely selfish "choice" to kill your baby for your own "convenience". Someone said that it's sometimes easier on the mother to kill her unborn child rather than give it up for adoption. Again, that's the height of selfishness. Chances are the baby would have liked to live!

So...all abortions are performed for convenience and are an act of selfishness? Mind-reading much?

I know some VERY moral, VERY religious (perhaps a coincidence, perhaps not) people who were put in VERY bad situations due to an unexpected pregnancy...it was not a matter of convenience for them...it was very INconvenient to choose to do something thay had aways thought they would never do...but, if you know better, then maybe YOU should choose for all of us, right?

The circumstance of how the child was concieved is different, but the fetus is the same. Just looking for justification or how it's any different.

That's one of the points I was making.

If the baby is the result of incest, then it's a different story. But some incest is consentual sex among adults. So what's the determining factor here - value of babies with limited gene pool vs. diverse?

I did adopt "a kid", thank you very much. His name is Tommy and he is now a responsible adult, a wonderful husband, and a devoted father. Had he been aborted, which he surely would have been if it had been legal at the time, it would have been a huge loss to the world.

My biological, much-wanted daughter, on the other hand, is a mess. If abortion were retroactive, I might consider it. But people ARE willing to adopt crack babies, abused kids, etc. In fact, there aren't enough of them to satisfy the demand, so US couples are going to China and Russia to adopt.

Wouldn't it be great it more people would go out and adopt like you?

I know/hope you are being sarcastic...Don't get me started on people going out of this country to adopt. I know a couple that adopted 2 beautiful little boys from Russia. The poor kids had a horrible life, but they didn't go to Russia for lack of kids to adopt here.

Wouldn't it be great it more people would go out and adopt like you?

I know/hope you are being sarcastic...Don't get me started on people going out of this country to adopt. I know a couple that adopted 2 beautiful little boys from Russia. The poor kids had a horrible life, but they didn't go to Russia for lack of kids to adopt here.

I was, indeed, being sarcastic about aborting my only daughter retroactively. I love her more than my own life, believe me. She just makes me CRAZY sometimes!

I was, indeed, being sarcastic about aborting my only daughter retroactively. I love her more than my own life, believe me. She just makes me CRAZY sometimes!

Oh, I know you were being sarcastic about that. I meant your comment about there being so many kids here that people have to go and adopt kids in other countries.

Alexandra...The "Soiled Linen Room" Scenario is the norm. Any facility that performs abortions has to deal with this complication (live births instead of dead fetuses). Unless there is a public hue and cry, they aren't likely to expend any money or effort to "pretty up" the whole issue.

I know you don't want to believe this, but it's true. I have family in the medical field and one cousin who quit nursing and is now a librarian because she just could not deal with this (and other) realities. The apple is well polished by the time it gets to the public.

I was thinking more along the lines of following proper procedure for disposal of medical waste, whatever that is. Since any facility performing abortions has to deal with the complication of live births (failed abortions), a reputable one would have actual procedures to handle it that don't involve the laundry room.

Alexandra...The "Soiled Linen Room" Scenario is the norm. Any facility that performs abortions has to deal with this complication (live births instead of dead fetuses). Unless there is a public hue and cry, they aren't likely to expend any money or effort to "pretty up" the whole issue.

Sadly, that's often true! I know of an abortion clinic that simply threw the aborted babies into a trash can (literally!) before there was a tremendous public outcry about it! I'm assuming they must have cremated them afterwards (or however they dispose of unborn babies bodies) but still throwing them away like that is just sick. Now, after the public outcry, they treat their little bodies with more respect and follow official procedures, etc. but the whole issue was horribly disturbing! This was a while ago now, so hopefully there are standard procedures that they all have to follow now.

As for "Comfort Rooms", I can see them being used for the poor parents who lost their child by miscarriage though. That would be so heart-breaking. I'm not sure if I understand the concept of Comfort Rooms though for someone who voluntarily aborted their baby, but if there is a need for them, then all clinics should have them available.

I was thinking more along the lines of following proper procedure for disposal of medical waste, whatever that is. Since any facility performing abortions has to deal with the complication of live births (failed abortions), a reputable one would have actual procedures to handle it that don't involve the laundry room.

Most definitely! Sadly, that's not always the case though. :cry

So the reason, the motivation for deciding to abort, has no bearing on this for you?

For me personally? No...I would not have an abortion - period.

As for other people, I would not help someone obtain an abortion. I would not loan them money, take them to the clinic, etc. Neither would I attempt to block their way in, carry signs in protest, hand out anti-abortion literature, etc. I think that for many people, it isn't an easy decision. But I can't possibly know the depth of their feelings, nor can I measure the purity of their motives.

I would be much more comfortable with pro-choice legislation that did not permit abortion on demand. I think there needs to be some degree of responsibility involved. And I think that partial birth and "salting out" abortions are absolutely barbaric and anyone doctor who performs them is absolutely committing child abuse of the worst imaginable sort.